View Full Version : AO extensions and contract negotiations

7th Apr 2003, 19:23
Today I recieved a phone call from a very concerned friend who is an F/O in AO.

According to what I was told, due to a variety of factors the CP has asked the pilots to agree to operate two pilot cns-fuk-kix, one tour of duty.

This would neccesitate more than 8 hours stick. A request for AO to operate under the CAO exemption will be made as part of this process.

A meeting of the AO pilot body has been held - and most pilots have voted to agree to the request.

I have no objections to either operating under the exemption nor with the AO pilots influencing their own work conditions, but I understand from my source that there will be no pay or salary increase as part of this very significant offset.

I have also been told that AIPA has been "warned" that if it does not agree to this major contract variation the AO pilot body will "make its own arrangements" with the airlines management.

I am posting this information, not to attack the AO captains who are opinion leading this inititive, but to inform that according to what I have been told there are a number of the AO F/O's who feel very uncomfortable about leaving the unionised pilot fold and their future prospects back in mainlinei f this change goes ahead.

The F/O has asked me to post this on his behalf due to the previous "naming and shaming" to QF management of those who have been critical (myself included ) of AO on this forum



Kaptin M
7th Apr 2003, 19:51
Little by little, this wedge, this Trojan Horse, will make its presence felt.
Like a seed it will grow - unless it's nipped in the bud.

But as it is "out of sight - out of mind" for the majority, at the PRESENT, it will burgeon, until its roots enter and strangle the mainstream.

This "thing" is growing faster than expected - my original guess was 3 - 5 years before it impacted directly on QANTAS mainline pilots.
At its current growth I'd conservatively estimate 1/2 of that.

7th Apr 2003, 21:47
Gee, they didn't even wait for the honeymoon to end!

Classic divide and conquer. BOHICA.

9th Apr 2003, 11:01
Gday Fartsock,
Can I ask how that management has "been naming and shaming" on PPrune. Please, I am not being critical, but I thought that this was all truly anonymous, (and unlike Qrewroom, you can't get pulled in for tea and Monte Carlos), and I am interested in how they are finding names. I am interested in doing promotion ( I am already on the 767) but I won't unless I have full union representation and a guaranteed job on return. Are the guys and girls gwetting a productivity increase from the CAO exemption?? it mus be worth a bit to the Company. Anyway, if you don't want to post the reply here send it direct to my email address. Thanks.
" Stick with it son"

9th Apr 2003, 11:07

Thanks for your post. My understanding is there is no offset from AO offered as part of moving to fly under the exemption.

As for the naming and shaming bit, all I can say is the long term 767 pilot group are relatively well known to one another, in my case I have been critical of AO on this forum in the past and someone on secondment rang the mainline B767 manager and complained about QF drivers being critical of AO on this forum - naming me as a culprit.

I was then asked by the B767 FM to come in for tea and bikkies.

PW would say "stick with it" I guess, but it aint easy.....

9th Apr 2003, 12:49
IL, the AO award is available for download via the AIPA web site. It says that on the completion of your contract with AO, you return to QF 'in the rank at which you were in AO' on the 767. If the 767 is gone from the QF fleet by then (far out I hope not!! :eek: ) then you return to where your seniorority allows you to.

In short, if you take a command with AO as a current QF F/O, you come back as a Captain on the 767 or whatever aircraft can take you at your QF seniorority from your original date of joining QF.

They're giving out tea and bikkies now? ;) :D

9th Apr 2003, 15:24

Re-read my first post.

There is a threat from the AO capts to negotiate individual contracts.

This means the current award which guarantees a return to mainline will no longer apply.

In this case I can't see the AO management agreeing to a new set of conditions whereas they lose trained labour at the end of a contract term.

One AO capt recently told a colleague who objected to the CAO exemption proposal - "Thats Qantas $hit - its behind you now "


Capt Coconut
9th Apr 2003, 18:51
Thankfully this nasty little episode is behind us now thanks to AIPA intervention.The majority of pilots weren't part of this push and in fact weren't even advised of it officially.So there quite a few
very p..... off people who put a stop to it and are left wondering as to the motivation of the ones behind it.
As for the threat to negotiate individual contracts,am not aware of any push for that as you would have to resign from QF and that would be pure stupidity.Although after this week nothing would suprise me.
Don't be afraid of going to Cairns as the AIPA contract has the protections in it.

9th Apr 2003, 19:22

Good news. I was told that AIPA was informed a vote of 20 captains was taken, and the majority were in favour.

It would appear I was wrong



10th Apr 2003, 12:02
Thanks for your reply Fartsock- good to see the CAO 48 exemption has been shot in the foot before it got off the ground- from what I understand the Company tried it on the negotiators fro EBA 6 and were told "no thank you"....
Good news Captain Coconut- I have been told on the grapevine that the President of AIPA and a few other Comittee members are to fly to CNS in the next few days to talk to a few people.
Thanks Keg, I am interested that the letter of Agreement says what you mentioned, that you will return in rank etc etc, but if the guys and girls were to do their own thing (outside the Long Haul EBA) then I was wondering if the EBA Letter of Agreement will still cover their return to QF Long Haul. ( same as fartsocks question).

And apparently EBA 6 has been agreed to by the Committee.. standby for a vote- hopefully 5.30 will be included for the 767 (please!)...

10th Apr 2003, 12:34
What is of interest regarding the return to Qantas thingy, from the AO EBA:

Arrangement for term pilots (term pilots are those on secondment from QF):

A term pilot will be employed by the Company (AO) on a fixed term contract for a period of up to 5 years

At the completion of the fixed term contract the company may:

- offer a ONCE only extension of the first fixed term contract (total fixed term contract period not to exceed 5 years)

- offer the term pilot a permanent position with the company, or

- not offer the term pilot any further employment with the Company

I wonder if once you become a permanent employee of AO, does this mean you are no longer employed by QF (on leave of absence)??

10th Apr 2003, 14:56
ftrplt, there have been a few others who have wondered the same thing.

The other thing worth noting is that if QF wind up AO within your contracted time (yeah, right! ;) ) then you also return to QF in your AO rank.