Air2000 crew- Classic Premium question...

[atco-matic]

Just returned from a week in Gran Canaria. Unfortunately I had to travel on charter, but I noticed that air2000 now have a separate "Classic Premium" class and that it was available on this flight.

The air2000.co.uk website boasted increased legroom seats and "upgraded meal". Unfortunately, and a word of warning to those of you thinking of booking it, the crew informed me that there had never been an upgraded meal in that class. In fact, the food was possibly the worst I have ever had (except Northwest in the states- only a cheeseburger on a 4 hour flight!!??).

Also, they didnt close the curtains between Classic Premium and even more cattle class! The standard pax were wandering through our cabin willy-nilly. Hardly exclusive.

Just sent off my complaint to them- lets see whether I get a reply. Back to BA next time.

[rupetime]

How much extra did it cost you, ive had a quick look on the website and cant find any mention of upgrading and i got as far as entering names and confirming prices !

rt

[newswatcher]

rupetime, try:

http://www.air2000.co.uk/classicpremshorthaul.htm

[atco-matic]

The prices vary according to destination and when you book it. When you type in dates, it will tell you if there is availabilty in classic premium, and the price. If there's no availability it just gives you the normal seat price.

No comment from air2000 yet...

[rupetime]

atco-matic

maybe it wasnt available the day you travelled - did you actually book it and pay extra ?

[lambchopboy]

can totally vouch for what has been said about Air 2000...Last summer flew BHX-ACE on one of their 767's in premium class...the meal left you seriously wanting...one measley drink and a foot rest which was bent to one side. As a six footer i thought it would've been a must, however i dread to think what it would've been like sitting with the great unwashed down the back of the plane....also didn't feel quite exclusive as no curtains were drawn in flight and premium stewardesses were feeding the unwashed as well!

:rolleyes:

regards

[MD11FAN]

Atco-matic,

I think you have been given duff info by that crew..I flew AMM from EMA to ACE in Jan 2002. We paid £49 extra for classic premium on A321. We did get a better meal(still rubbish though) and a much better seat(no wider but more padding and about 5 inches more legroom). I did a bit of research and noticed that this service was only available on A321s and B767s.

Matt

[atco-matic]

Ok all, it was a B767 and I did book it as a classic premium seat on their web page. I also got the 30kg luggage allowance (instead of 20kg) and ''priority'' baggage offloading which was ignored by the baggage handlers at Las Palmas.

The meal given to us was the same as in the rest of the plane behind the (open) curtain, which was flopping over my head all the way home. Hence I was able to see that the passengers behind received the same meal as those in front of the curtain.

On the way out, the stewardess fobbed me off with ''it is an upgraded meal, but that doesn't include breakfast- only lunch and dinner''. On the way back, they said it was always the same meal as the normal passengers and that there never was an upgraded meal.

The link http://www.air2000.co.uk/classicpremshortinflightservice.htm specifically states ''Specially trained cabin crew provide the highest possible levels of in-flight service, including an upgraded meal''.

It's now nearly a week since I emailed them and I have yet to receive a reply.

[atco-matic]

Hello Air2000 guys and gals. Just come back from a week in Gran Canaria. Booked and paid extra to sit in Classic Premium on the B767 on the promise of, amongst other things, ''Specially trained cabin crew provide the highest possible levels of in-flight service, including an upgraded meal''. Web page link: http://www.air2000.co.uk/classicpremshortinflightservice.htm refers.

On the way out, I noticed we received the same meal as the passengers in Classic. I questioned this and was told that the upgraded meal did not apply to breakfast- only lunch and dinner.

On the way back, I noticed that the dinner we received was again the same as the Classic passengers.

I was able to see this because, annoyingly, all the curtains were left open.

My questions are:

1) What happened to the upgraded meal, and why was I fobbed off with excuses

2) Why was the curtain not drawn, so I was made to feel as if I was no different to the Classic passengers, and hence that apart from the comfier seat, I felt I had wasted my money.

No quibbles with the crew- except I don't like being lied to! I can spot a crew fib a mile off thank you very much.

[gashbag]

Hi
I dont wish to sound rude but why didnt you query this and ask the crew whilst you were on the flight? they were the ones who would have answered this for you there and then..:confused:

[atco-matic]

re- read the post and retract your comment. :D im not into whingeing on aeroplanes about things that meay seem trivial to some crew, hence I didnt ask why the curtains were left open.

[30secondReview]

Surely as crew you are aware of the increased security procedures on flights post 9/11? All curtains must remain open for this reason.

Picture this..

You're working at the rear of the aircraft and the Premium cabin is sectioned off by a curtain.

Shortly after take off, a crew member operating at the front of the aircraft pays a visit to the flight deck, taking them in a coffee and a sandwich, 3 passengers travelling in Premium over power your collegue and force their way in to the fight deck.

The cutain is closed, you glance down the aisle of the aircraft, everything appears to be fine, need I go on?

[gashbag]

why dont you write into the company then? what are you hoping to gain from here except to winge..

[atco-matic]

I have written to the airline, and I have so far not recieved a reply, despite also e-mailing them to ask if they got my letter.

I do not accept the excuse about the curtain, as I have just flown with BA to Toulouse on B737 and the curtain was securely closed in both directions. In january, I flew to JNB on BA and the curtains at all galleys were, again, closed in both directions. In any case, on a B747 the majority of the crew cannot see the flight deck door anyway.

I didn't come here to 'winge' but as you all seem determined to be defensive and criticise me for asking two perfectly civil questions, I am more inclined to think that the curtain was left open because the crew were too lazy to keep opening and closing it every time they needed to go up and down the aisle.

And if thats the impression I formed on the flight, then you would think Air2000 would be interested to hear about that before other passengers run off to BA... obviously not as it stands at the moment.

[YYC F/A]

"I do not accept the excuse about the curtain, as I have just flown with BA to Toulouse on B737 and the curtain was securely closed in both directions. "

Atco - In actual fact, many airlines have adopted this policy post Sept 11th. United Airlines and most other US carriers no longer permit the use of the Cabin Divider Curtains at any time, or galley curtains. All Curtain Dividers are being gradually removed from all UA Aircraft.

Just because BA hasn't adopted this policy, doesn't mean that other carriers haven't. Even if it is not formal Air2000 policy, the Purser or the Captain of the Aircraft may have expressed a preference for this for security reasons - perfectly acceptable IMHO.

[getoverit]

Hmmm - let me see if I can put a few things straight here - I'm an air2000 (lower case 'a' please - we've dropped the capital) flight supervisor so as far as I know, these are the facts...

acto-matic - you shouldn't have been fobbed off with an excuse re: upgraded meal - the meals on shorthaul classic premium flights are the same as in the classic cabin - only on longhaul are they 'upgraded'. Now, to the 'curtain' question which has caused so much debate. Whether the curtain is open or closed is at the discretion of the Flight Supervisor - I personally leave it open, partly because of the reasons stated by 30secondreview, and partly because its not very nice for the first row of passengers sitting in 'economy' to have a curtain in their face!! AND, as the crew work damn hard on these flights, having a curtain pulled across the aisle is just a nuisance as you are constantly back and forth to the fwd galley, then back thru to economy (we dont have dedicated crew that work soley in Classic Premium, we have to carry on thru to economy) So, you were made to feel no different to economy passengers??!! Well guess what, YOU ARENT ANY DIFFERENT!! Just because you paid a small upgrade fee doesnt make you the queen of england. You must realise that the majority of the upgrade fee is really for the larger seat - as there are larger and therefore fewer seats in the premium cabin, the lost revenue in terms of 'lost' seats has to be re-claimed - only a small part goes towards the ugraded service - however small that may be.

Hope this clears a few things up - thread closed??

[TightSlot]

We had a similar issue with our charter carrier, and I believe that the issue is created by... marketing meddling.

The product being sold is actually enhanced seating - that's what people will pay for and want. Marketing departments however, were unable to resist the temptation to meddle, and before we know it there are comp drinks, upgraded catering, curtains, dedicated crew and all the other nonsense. This of course does nothing but add cost and create customer expectations that may not be met. Therefore you have to have a service failure recovery procedure (additional cost, complexity and staff). However the main objective is to ensure continued influence and employment for the marketing department, who will preach about "added value" and other rubbish that they claim to have added to the business. In most cases, the contribution made by Marketing is an immeasurable value, unlike the contribution made by almost all other departments.

So here's my suggestion - Sell upgraded comfort seating on charter flights for a price that people will pay and that makes a return. Do not offer anything else! Make this absolutely clear in the promotional material - allow customers to understand precisely what they are paying for, and then to see that they have received it. All the other stuff is marketing fluff that attracts people like atco-matic (whose self esteem requires props such as divider curtains to preserve the illusion that he/she is "different to the Classic passengers"). By doing all this, airlines could cut complexity, reduce staff (marketing staff preferably), reduce operating costs, reduce complaints and sell more "Classic Premium"seats, thereby increasing revenue. Good idea or what?

Is this likely to happen? - yeah sure, Pigs will fly (although some do, of course)

[ditzyboy]

Fellow FAs...
PLEASE CUT THIS PERSON SOME SLACK!

Atco-matic asked valid questions and sought answers. He never critisized or judged the crew. His "lazy" comments were obviously out of frustraztion and the responses. You people are all trained professionals. PLEASE ACT LIKE IT!

getoverit....
Your reply started well but you couldn't resist the temptation to add the smart remark about "YOU AREN'T ANY DIFFERENT". As a senior I would have thought you were above that. I too am an FA and understand your thoughts completely. But really... How could you assume that atco-matic was 'one of those pax'? He was simply asking for answers. Show some diplomacy. You just represented air2000 with your answer.

TightSlot...
Spot on. Marketing are the ones that need reality checks! There's that fine line in marketing, between making something seem appealing and creating unrealistic expectations. Unfortunately not many marketing departments seem to remember that!

[jmccrew]

would seem atco does have a point regards the upgraded meal as the air 2000 web site clearly states that it is provided on shorthaul ??

[swede-basher]

So, just to confirm, despite what the Website tells me, I can expect to receive is 5" of extra leg room for my extra 10% spend?

Like someone above has said it's about expectations, if the Website tells me to expect something then I don't think it's unreasonable to question when that expectation is not satisfied.

I was about to pay the extra BRS-FUE but don't think i'll bother now.

[FormerFlyer]

swede-basher if I were you I would check with your travel agent or air2bob (if you booked direct) as there is currently a Premium Cabin 2for1 upgrade offer.

I've put quite a few EU ones through at £15pp, which I think is a bargain for a bigger seat. As it was I thought £30 was an OK price for a bigger seat.

cheers ;)
FF

[swede-basher]

Thanks for the heads up FF. BTW is the name former as in before Flyer as in the outfit that was LGW based? If so we may have worked together in a previous life:}

[FormerFlyer]

Nah sorry, not that elaborate! Simply that I used to fly!!

cheers ;)

FF

[flyblue]

Wow, I'm impressed you guys and girls provided some excellent self-moderation!:D
Let's not forget that this is a Forum, and NO QUESTION is a stupid question!
atco-matic was obviously not satisfied with the explanation he received. I don't think it is any bad to come and ask our professional opinion! I wouldn't call that winging!
Tightslot as usual goes deeper into the subject ;) . It's called to analyze and it does a lot od good to any controversial subject.
getoverit, any airline has its curtain policies. Mine for instance has one that says that curtains must be drawn between classes (not an option). Not that my opinion could make any difference (because I would have to follow the company policy), but I don't personally think that economy class would particularly appreciate the vision of Business class pax drinking champagne and eating foie gras while they enjoy their sandwich . On my humble opinion pax are not different but they paid a different amount, and are entitled to get what they paid for. BTW no one sitting on the economy's first row ever complained about the curtains.
In any case, I think that a customer is entitled to receive an explanation about the services he purchased. After all, he's free to come back or not.

[Level2]

Another post where someone expects the Royalty treatment on a charter flight....:rolleyes: ......yawn.

[atco-matic]

Level2, get a life... I don't expect royalty treatment on a charter flight but I do expect to get what I paid for.

Still waiting for a reply from air2000 ''customer service''.

[atco-matic]

Thankyou for your support fly blue. Having read getoverit's post I do not think I will ever travel on air2000 again if that's the attitude of their staff.

It appears that, according to getoverit, air2000's web page is blatantly telling lies...maybe a case for trading standards???

I still haven't received a reply from air2000- another letter will be going in the post soon, quoting getoverit's reply to help my argument.

[Xenia]

As this thread has been duplicated on SLF I will close this one, and re-direct it there.
Happy landings to you all

[CandyBender]

With BA cabin curtains stay closed throughout the cruise & MUST stay closed when f/deck access is needed. Guess curtains open is just Air2Bob's policy.

[BA Boi]

No, no, no. I'm sorry, but the point that 30secondReview made about it being a safety procedure to leave the cabin-divider curtain open just does not hold any water.
That hypothetical situation and procedure may have a place on an aircraft such as an Embraer 145, or something like that, but on aircraft any bigger than that - and especially widebodied aircraft - it just does not apply as hardly anybody can see the flight-deck from the aisles, as acto-matic stated.
Now, i work for BA as Cabin Crew and they have the best SEP and SOP in the industry. They are the leader, full stop - and if we haven't been told to carry out that procedure then it is not a safety issue. :cool:.

[TightSlot]

Now, i work for BA as Cabin Crew and they have the best SEP and SOP in the industry. They are the leader, full stop - and if we haven't been told to carry out that procedure then it is not a safety issue

Well there we have it boys and girls - If BA don't do it, it isn't worth doing. All those good folk in the CAA must be feeling pretty bad just now, having thought for so long that it was actually them defining safety requirements, when all along it was our national carrier.:rolleyes:

Now that I realize that I am working for a second rate airline, I'd be delighted to accept any further guidance available from the leader should it become available. In return I promise always to remove my hat in the terminal, when in the presence of greatness - full stop

[PAXboy]

when all along it was our national carrier TS - at the risk of having the thread booted into Jet Blast ...

We don't have a national carrier.
BA is a public company, listed on the Stock Exchange not owned by the UK government. Whilst they might be limited to a majority UK shareholding - that does not make them the national carrier.

They might have more aircraft and pax than any other - but that does not make them the national carrier.

It matters not a jot who has the flag on their winglets either!

I sit to be corrected. :p

[TightSlot]

Grasshopper, your point is sound! :O

(Still think it was a bloody stupid thing for him to have said!)

[YYC F/A]

BA boi....

As per the previous posts on this thread (mine included), several 'Respected' airlines have a policy prohibiting Cabin Divider Curtains from being used in flight for security reasons.

Safety regulations vary slightly from carrier to carrier. For instance, when I flew for BMI, they had a strict policy of only getting up from your jumpseat when the aircraft had finished taxi-ing to the gate, and the seatbelt sign was swithced off (exceptions for safety reasons, e.g. to close an open overhead bin, medical problem etc.). Then, and only then, would the instruction be given to 'Disarm doors for arrival'.

At BA, the Captain instructs crews to switch 'doors to manual' as the aircraft is still taxi-ing into the gate. I've been on several flights where the crew are up and out of their jumpseats after the aircraft has landed and is still taxi-ing, often in the galley, finalising duty free sales, etc.

I realise that I am going somewhat 'off-topic' but my point is that each airline has slightly different policies and procedures. Just because one airline is 'Bigger' does not mean it is neccesarily 'Right' or that it's way is the 'Only Way' to do things.

Ironically, United Airlines is quite considerably larger than BA, in terms of Passengers flown, Number of aircraft, Number of Employees, Revenue - however you want to slice it. And yet United Airlines has a strict policy of keeping Cabin Divider Curtains OPEN during flight for security reasons.

We should all respect other carriers policies, and where that carrier affords some level of discretion to the Captain / Flight Supervisor, try and understand their reasons behind their decisions before jumping to the conclusion that they are acting inappropriately.

Fly Safe and have a good day!

[Xenia]

Yes, must admitt we are going off topic here, but for a good reason! :ok:
There are not "second class" airlines, neither "second class cabin crew"!
To have blinkers (mine is the best and full stop) has never allowed anybody to grow up professionally, learning from other schools, ideas or experiences.
Happy landings