Low flying Heli's

[Vfrpilotpb]

We are all seeing quiet a lot of low/fast flying by a myriad of helis down in the giant sandpit courtesy of Uncle Saddam, now having been taught that altitude is your friend, what do you do when some body opens a tin of "Wupp-ass" and it stops your donkey doing what it should, do you flare and try to land evenly or do you try to gain altitude with the speed/energy, and then try to enter some sort of controlled descent. Could one of you old/high timers explain this?
My question is assuming that the rotors are still able to work!
Many regards
Peter R-B:confused:

[Thomas coupling]

Hey VFR good to see you pop up again.

If you're talking UK forces, there aren't any 'front line' singles out there. Gazelles are being used in the rear.
So having both donks stop from ground fire would take some doing. Sufficient damage would have to be done to flame both out and I would suggest other problems would manifest themselves very quickly in addition:eek:
If however, there was some reason to land from a low altitude profile without power, then yes, I would attempt to trade speed for height to give me time to manouevre for a landing. But in a war scenario, I would do everything possible(provided I still had Nr) to depart the scene as far as possible before being forced to land in the hope I didn't get taken Prisoner:p
If that meant flying in the red with my engines for a short time, then so be it...it's not my machine!
I still wonder what caused that Apache to land intact (on TV). Why didn't he bleed every last ounce out of it to get as far away as possible from the enemy? Where was his top cover too? Why didn't a couple of his colleagues strafe the area while another went in to rescue the crew?? Not criticising just curious??

[sycamore]

Single-engine,
Flare as hard as you can,lowering the lever to keep rrpm,level,and use all cyclic,collective,and yaw pedal to keep it upright,and not rolling into a ball- pick up your shooter and prepare to become a grunt for a while.
Multi-engine,
either stay back and try a run -on landing after everyone else has departed the LZ,as you don`t wanna land with downwash/blowing sand,etc.you can also get the troops to "step-off-the moving bus",as you coast in at 20-30kts at about 5 ft.( Paras are good at that- counts as free-fall time), pull-pitch and head home, remembering you are now in situation 1.

Can also work in civilian environment,but their suits get dirty!:p

[Vfrpilotpb]

TC and Sycamore,

Thank you both, after I had typed this question I was sat in front of the old G box and saw the Helis in Saddams back yard and low, their it was, my favourite beastie the Gazelle at about 50ft and possibly 130ish knts looking for baddies, as an old Brit I admire and have great respect for all our service men in this conflict, especially the pilots, they seem to be hated most when captured!
Like you TC, I could'nt understand why the Apache pilot had not fired his heli before legging it , but then he's there, and I'm here I bet it alter's your mindset somewhat when hot lead is comming your way!!

TC was that you looking at the camera with Terra Firma at a funny angle?

Many regards

Peter R-B;)

[MightyGem]

TC, AAC Gazelles are doing ABFAC (Airbourne Foward Air Control), ie talking fast jets onto targets, out in Iraq. You can't do that from rear areas.

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VFRpb, in your favourite Gazelle you are relatively well placed from 120-130 kts as the aircraft will zoom climb and gain 2-300 feet from low level following an engine failure. The low level IPS (intermediate pitch stop) engine off was great fun to do, especially when throttle initiated. You just have to be careful as you push forward to stabilise the speed at 60 kts at the top of the climb as 'negative flare effect' for want of a better term will decay the NR as quickly as the real flare effect increased it.
Most military twins won't climb like this and the best you can hope for is to delay the descent as you wash off the speed. Chances are from 200' and below that it will be a constant flare into the EOL at the bottom with the aim of getting the groundspeed as low as possible if the terrain is inhospitable ie desert.

[Crashondeck]

I guess the answer lies in the Ht-Vel curve. Some have a deadman bit at high vel and low ht. However, I remeber reading somewhere that one of two things will happen:

Either the first thing you would notice about an engine failure would be the ground making its way through the cockpit.

Or you flare hard to avoid turning the a/c into a bowling ball and end up in the other part of the deadman's curve.

Suspect low flying at speed when the engine stops means that you will be late home for dinner.

I heard a story that a Gazelle suffered an engine failure at low level over a lake. I believe the a\c hit the water and the pilot or LH seater ended up sitting on the beech still in their seat. Can anyone expand on this one?

[SASless]

Having left a couple of helicopters in somewhat of a hurry....in very unfriendly neighborhoods.....I can understand the Apache being left unattended by our side. I can recall having a conversation along the lines of "Hey, I am the Aircraft Commander and you are the smoker in the crew.....don't you think you ought to go back and burn that SOB down?" Only to be reminded how bad a sprinter smokers make. I would have offered but my hands were shaking so bad I would have had more luck rubbing two sticks together than trying to strike a paper match. Sometimes such thoughts are late in coming when you have other priorities such as avoiding lasting conversation with nasty people.

I recall hearing the USAF destroyed the aircraft later....just yesterday I saw a shot of a lowboy trailer truck haulling the thing off down the road. Hmmmmm....you reckon they whacked the thing on the move?