IR Help

[rich49]

hiya all,
I am looking through the LASORS site at the moment and I would like to ask if someone could clarify a couple of things?

Firstly, I have been told that one way to go about my flight training is after gaining a PPL, to go ahead and get the IR. This allows a 10 hour reduction of the CPL and 50 hours towards the minimum of 150 hours to undertake the CPL course. Is their any bad points to this idea?

As for the other questions:
a) I have 40 minutes in a Tomahawk, 30 minutes in a Vigilant, and 5 hours 27 minutes as P2 (student) in K13 gliders. How much of this is elible towards total flight time?

b) The LASORS site says that ''When applying for an IR you must produce evidence of the following flying experience: 50 hours cross country flight time as PIC in aeroplanes...''
Does this mean that I have to fly 50 hours cross country BEFORE starting my flight training for IR or does it mean that I have to gain 50 hours in IMC under instruction?

c) When going for my MECR and asuming that I hold the IR can I fly ME aircraft under IMC or do I have to do 5 extra hours IMC multi engined (can this be incorperated into the MECR training)?

d) The minimum hours for a CPL is 200, you can start training for a CPL with 150 hours, yet the CPL course is only 25 hours in duration. Do you do the CPL skills test then have to build up another 25 hours before the issue of the CPL out of training?

e) When holding an IR prior to starting CPL training, you have a 10 hour reduction. Does this mean 10 hours off of training (so the course only lasts 15 hours) or does it mean that the CPL can be issued with only 190 Hours TT?

Well, thats it. Sorry if these question seem a bit stupid but my head is spining from looking through all the facts on LASORS.
Cheers
Richard

[expedite_climb]

Firstly, many others will tell you to have a look around this site for answers !! A quick look in this forum answers your first question re IR before CPL, here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84454) . In a nutshell - not a good idea.

a) Tomahawk counts in full. Vigilant (assuming it is the mil version of Grob 109) also counts. Not sure about the gliding - doubt it.

b) You need 50 hrs cross country before the IR test. If you didnt youd most definately struggle with flying a twin, IFR in airways , and struggle with the IR !

c) You seem rather confused. I belive you would normally do the ME class rating before the ME IR. The ME rating has nothing to do with IMC flying. The IMC rating is a lower qualification than the IR and hence a priveldge of the IR (and also CPL).

d) You can do it at either. Why not do it before the more expensive CPL training ??? You may need more than 25 hours, but the amount more may be less if you have more experience. I'd be tempted to wait until 165 hrs or so before starting.

e) The course is only minimum 15 hrs. However, you may have got this reduction by spending more money on more expensive twin IR training.

Hope this helps.

[rich49]

Ok thanks. I will scratch the idea of doing the IR before CPL. Do you see anything wrong with taking a MECR before the CPL and using the hours built up with that to put towards the 150 hours?

Just to clarify then, 50 hours cross country time must be gained before the IR skills test. That means that you do not have to have 50 hours prior to taking the IR course itself, just the test. Those 50 hours are gained through instruction.

regarding c) The MECR is gained first, then the IR normaly then. I am confused by the ''single engined instrument rating'' and Multi engined instrument rating'' If you were to get an IR (so at this point in your training you can fly single engined piston aircraft under IFR) THEN a MECR, would you have to do additional training in order to fly multi engined aircraft under IFR? Or could you fly a twin under IFR straight after the issue of your MECR if you already have an IR?

I am sorry if I am being a bit slow on the uptake but I am a bit confused. :O

[Artificial Horizon]

Rich,

50 hours PIC means that you must have 50 hours as pilot in command before the IR application, the time under instruction on the IR course DOESN'T count towards this. You will need to fly P1 for at least 40 hours after the PPL (you should already have 10 hours PIC x-country from the PPL training).

If you do a single engine IR this DOESN'T allow you to then have IR privledges on a multi engined aeroplane. You would have to do another test as the CAA needs to see a demonstration of Assymetric (engine failure) procedures on the multi. I do not know for sure but I think there is a training requirement of around 15 hours multi IR training before being able to take that test.

Hope this helps.:)

[expedite_climb]

I'd still do the MECR after the CPL, prob as part of the IR course.

Reason, you will learn a lot during your CPL course and that teaching will improve your handling and you may do the MECR in min hours.

The hours you could use towards the 200 you need.

The cpl course does not normally include ME flying. (You can if you like, but why make life hard ?)

[witchdoctor]

I agree with expedite, but with an additional reason for leaving any multi-engine work 'til later - it is bloody expensive. Get your licences squared away first, then worry about having some fun in a twin - the more experience you have going into it, the more you will be able to enjoy it.

[firepig]

Expedite is right.
I decided that I didn't want any sim - just real flying.
I did 20 hrs IR in an Arrow + 10 Hrs IR in a Turbo Arrow, then followed with 6 hrs MECR on a Seneca, followed by 20 hrs IR on the same Seneca - All back to back - seamless. At the end I did the MECR LST back to back with the 170A, followed immediately by the IRT. 1st time pass, it worked for me. There is no substitute for airborne time.