One Eye

[Slotty]

Quick question:
If you have only 1 eye can you get a class 2 medical?
If you already had a medical and then lost the eye would that be different?
Just interested......:confused:

[BlipOnTheRadar]

Hi there,

I have amblyopia, in laymans terms "lazy eye" and at the moment the CAA will not issue me with a Class 1 and have said that had I not held a current Class 2 certificate, I would not pass a sight test for the initial issue of a Class 2.

I know of commercial pilots who have lost an eye after gaining their ATPL and have had their Class 1 certificates reissued after a flight test, however they will not even consider a flight test unless you already have the licence.

The CAA would appear to have double standards on the sight issue (or indeed any medical condition) Once you have a certificate they will try their hardest to keep it for you... but they will not try in the least bit to help to get it in the first place.

I wonder... extending the CAA double standards slightly... if the holder of an ATPL were decapitated in an accident would they still reissue the medical?

So to sum up... If you already hold a medical, no problem... if you don't, you have a choice, forget flying or fight the CAA all the way.

One day common sense may prevail, until then we have the CAA

All the best

BlipOnTheRadar

[QDMQDMQDM]

The CAA's position is irrational if they will help you keep a certificate., but not get one.

However, I would have thought someone with only one functioning eye could have a lot of problems at night with depth perception. Or am I wrong?

QDM

[BlipOnTheRadar]

Hi QDM,

I have had amblyopia all my life so I really don't know any different. The CAA have made it known they share your concern that person without binocular vision cannot see stereoscopically... if that were true I would never have made it down a flight of stairs alive! The fact is the brain is responsible for depth perception not the eyes.

an example: when you watch the television or a cinema screen do you see a flat image or does your brain interpret the information and force perspective.

The rate of change of an object will also create a perspective, so purely by moving through a changing landscape you have perspective.

Most people with binocular vision will attempt to understand the position of a person with monocular vision by covering one eye and comparing that to their normal vision... and after aproximately four seconds will declare that they have no depth perception.... why not try covering an eye up for 35 years, your brain will soon adapt itself to the new sensory input and although it may not be as good as it was, it will be good enough.

It is time for the CAA to emerge from the dark ages and realise the brain is very adaptable.

BlipOnTheRadar

[flyboy2]

Although rare, there was a PPL in FAGG who flew his PA23 with little problem.

During the early 1960's , my employer was issued a restricted -to freight-only CPL after getting a trout fly in 1 eye.

Recently I heard of a motorist who drove without incident/accident for 35 years but who was refused a driving -licence renewal , in spite of a Specialist report.

Yes the brain does indeed make adjustments , but rule-makers haven't yet adapted to that

[QDMQDMQDM]

Someone with one functioning eye cannot see stereoscopically, by definition. They can, however, make up for the lack of stereoscopic depth perception by using various visual cues and experience.

Where there is little ancillary information to help in depth perception, say flying a helicopter over the North Sea at night, it might be expected that someone without stereoscopic depth perception may have more difficulty.

I don't think the CAA are unreasonable to want to investigate this. I think they are unreasonable if they help someone with a licence to keep it, but at the same time refuse a certificate to someone without a licence.

QDM

[keendog]

I have ampliobia and am effectively monocular. Monocular pilots are not, in fact, uncommon.

There are two possible routes.
You cannot do anything under JAR
You can, however, get up to a Class 1 FAA medical if monocular - there are quite a few monocular FAA ATPLs, as over there they have a system of "SODAS" - Statements of Demonstrated Ability - basically, if you can demonstrate that your are safe, you can fly.

If you are just interested in private flying that you can get an NPPL. Of course, this is just day VFR only but it may change in the future.
There are two levels of NPPL medical. If you reach the standard for ordinary drivers (Class 1) which would include the monocular, then you can fly solo. If you reach the standard for HGV drivers (Class 2) then you can take passengers. Class 2 HGV licences are not available to monocular people BUT, I like to think in response to a suggestion from me during the NPPL consultation period, a Class 2 type NPPL medical IS available to monocular pilots if they complete a satsifactory test flight at the end of their training.

It is interesting to note that the reason for this, specifically given in the notes for guidance with reference to NPPL medicals promulgated by the CAA is that "monocularity is not inconsistent with safe flight".

Having been monocular all my life I agree with this. I can play squash and tennis pretty well and have no problem with depth perception. I imagine, however, that a person used to binocular vision would find it hard to adapt if suddenly deprived of the sight in one eye.

[BlipOnTheRadar]

QDM, I don't think the CAA are unreasonable to want to investigate this
If that were the case, it would be perfectly reasonable... however the CAA will not investigate it. My application was rejected outright!

Keendog, You are quite correct, the FAA will issue Class 1 medicals to monocular pilots, I already have one. And when I get my FAA ATP license I will be allowed to fly "heavies" into and around the UK unrestricted... but not fly a C-152 for hire or reward on my JAA licence! Ladies & Gentlemen, common sense has now left the building.

Why is it that the CAA will not adopt the FAA system of SODA? I have told them on numerous occasions that I will gladly undertake any flight test they can devise, but this too has been rejected. Medical flight tests are apparently only for those that already hold a medical certificate and need it revalidating. As I may have implied before, I believe the CAA is guilty of double standards and deliberately mis-interpreting the ICAO rules.

BlipOnTheRadar

Remember: without pilots the CAA would not exist... without the CAA pilots would still be AVIATORS!

[keendog]

I doubt that the CAA itself is that closed minded. The problem, as I understand it, is that now we are in the dreaded JAR the CAA is, effectively, robbed of the power to take any unilateral action.

Spies inform me that opposition to the FAA type system comes from those lovers of regulation and restriction, the F****h and the G*****s.

A good example, if one was needed, of how an excessive degree of integration into the EU slowly erodes our right to do what we damn well please by depriving our own regulatory authorities of the power to take a sensible position on not just this, but many questions - FCL, abbatoirs, sausage ingredients etc.

[BlipOnTheRadar]

Incidentally QDM
... flying a helicopter over the North Sea at night
Why a helicopter? As long as you were moving through a landscape you get forced perspective. It would make little difference what vehicle you were in at the time. Although I can see your point that being in a hover without any eternal references could be a little tricky, but why would a non-instrument rated pilot be in the hover over the North Sea at night? That would be like playing Russian roulette with one empty chamber.

The only time I have flown at night in a featureless terrain was on a journey from Bullhead City to San Diego. When the panel lights were turned off briefly there was nothing but blackness... no roads, no towns, no stars... nothing. Are you suggesting that a pilot with stereoscopic vision would be better suited to fly in those conditions than a monocular pilot? If so, why? Do stereoscopic pilots also have thermal imaging capabilities?

Any newbies out there that are reading this, whether you have one, two or three eyes... I strongly advise you get at least an IFR rating before you attempt to fly over featureless terrain at night.

QDM, I apologise if I'm being an a*se, I feel very strongly about this. The CAA arguments for not letting me have a Class 1 medical do not hold water. They are making a mockery of aviation.

Keep it safe

BlipOnTheRadar

[kcin]

Yes you can. In fact a major airline has a 1 eyed pilot. he obtained his FAA medical by applying through some obscure FAA rule that says that even though you have medical problem, if you can successfully prove you can do the tasks required you can get the liscence. i think it called something like medical competency.

In this guys case he had to get a FAA doctor who is also a pilot to go fly with him so he could prove he could preflight, takeoff, fly, land ect.

He had an ATP MEL so he rented a twin so he could prove single engine capability.

[rottenlungs]

I have amblyopia and am learning to fly in NZ.

I have just been issued a class 2 medical (private) though with a few provisos. I am to record any occurrence of double vision (this is what the aeromedic seemed most concerned about).

The thing is that this will never happen. I was born amblyopic and have never had any problems of that type. If it impaired depth perception how indeed could I walk down stairs, or drive a car for that matter. This was confirmed by an opthalmic optician who had to write a report to the NZCAA confirming that he was completely unconcerned with my amblyopia, and that as BLIPONTHERADAR rightly said, depth perception is a brain function. Stereoscopic vision may give the brain a bit more information to work with but if the brain has learned to use one eye from day one, then it shouldn`t be a problem.

The aeromedic did say to me that I would be unlikely to obtain a class 1 medical, though it would be looked at on its merits. The NZCAA seem a bit more open to looking at individual cases than the UK CAA.

Cheers

Rottenlungs

edited to correct my hopeless typing skills!

[DanRS]

Hi Guys

I'm a newbie here so I am probably going to ask some really stupid questions but please bear with me.

This Thread is particularly interesting to me, as I finally found myself in the position where being able to take a pilots licence all the way though to CPL became a real possibility... however. I too suffer from a type of ambyopia, and after getting my eyes tested at a detailed level by a local optition it turns out I am one line outside the requirements to pass a commercial medical.

I spoke to the CAA and their suggestion was that I could book a full medical do the eyesight test first, then if I passed that go on to do the full medical.

My main worry is that if I were to scrape through this time round and complete the training, am I likely to lose out if there is any deteriation in my bad eye??

As others have commented this "disability" has no effect on my depth of vision or spacial awareness.

I'd really appreciate any input or advice.

Cheers Dan

[BlipOnTheRadar]

Dan

It has been my bitter experience that should you pass the intial JAA(UK) Class 1 medical, the CAA will do their best to ensure you keep it. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a captain that I know lost an eye in an accident. The CAA 'bent over backwards' to allow him to keep his licence. I believe his medical certificate now bears the endorsement "may operate only as part of a multi crew cockpit"

I, as you and every other person in our position, have two working eyes, it is just unfortunate that one doesn't work quite as well as the other. The CAA believe that you cannot operate safely with monocularity due to a lack of depth perception. I have been told this many, many times by those gifted few at the 'Belgrano' however, as I said above, once you have a medical you'll find it difficult to lose it.

It is also interesting to note that on the CAA website its states "... experience has shown that monocularity is not a bar to safe flying" which, as you can probably tell, is a complete reversal of what they said previously.

To cut a long and sad story short... it depends on what mood the doctor is in on the day you take your initial medical as to whether your career will be in aviation... or stacking shelves in the local supermarket... It must be nice to play God!!

Keep flying regardless of the CAA.

BlipOnTheRadar