The end is nigh!!!

[bustalevel]

If I don't get to sit perf A before July, what will I have to do? Can I still apply to airlines without it?

[RVR800]

Hi Busta

I'm in the same position as you ..

If you don't do Perf A you will have to do the JAA equivalent exam which is not recommended by PPSC - advise is to go for Perf A before the deadline

Apparantly the JAA exam has more content = more work but its a shorter exam only 1 hr

I am having trouble motivating myself to do it..

Date : 4 June is last one

One at Gatwick on 18th June but used
by a particilar school maybe poss..



[This message has been edited by RVR800 (edited 29 March 2001).]

[Polar_stereographic]

It's worse than that.

1st July 2002 is the big date, that if you don't meet the FULL requirements for an UNFROZEN ATPL (ie, 1500 hours inc 100 night etc etc etc) and have applied for it, then that's it as far as the natinal licences go.

I know plenty of people doing the old national licences with 200 hrs total time.

How are they going to get the requiremnts done by that date? My maths not up to much, but from where I'm sitting, it's not possible.

I guess the authorities are readying them selves for some interesting litigation cases, or a change of rules.

PS

[The man formerly known as]

Polar,

Thats what I thought but its not that bad.

If you pass UK ATPL theory by june 2001 and hang an IR on it by june 2002 and convert your UK cpl to a JARCPL(R) then you will have a frozen ATPL with no time limits. This is actually better than the old CAA system.

This is detailed in a White paper from the CAA.

[Alex Whittingham]

The new exam is not any more difficult than the old one. The examiner thinks it is easier and I share his opinion. It is nearly all theory with very little graph use, the new exam could mostly be described as 'applied principles of flight'. If I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

[funkster]

Sorry not too familiar with all the exam rules etc, but can you tell me what is going to happen after june 2002 regarding the frozen ATPL? Am I to understand that there will be a new different exam (with the same name but different requirements)??

[eyeinthesky]

Check out the CAA website on this under SRG/ What's new. Basically it says that if you do not manage to unfreeze a UK ATPL by June 2002 (1500 hours, 100 night etc) then you will have to meet JAA requirements to unfreeze it (1500 hours, 500 in multi-crew a/c). You can of course still have a UK CPL. Or that's how I read it anyway.

------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[Polar_stereographic]

Ok, some really usefull replies here.

With a frozen ATPL, the way forward is to pin an IR onto it, convert to a JAA CPL/IR and then there is no time limit to upgrade once the requirements have been met.

So, can someone tell me what I can do with a JAA CPL/IR. Under the national system, one could not add TR onto CPL's. Is that the case with the JAA system.

I don't consider myself dim academicaly (only ever failed one tech exam - can't spell mind you), got a few hour (1300) under my belt, got most of the ratings in the bag, but, after all that I still cannot get my head round the system.

Is there any one who understands it, got any tips as to where to get info from or is it a case of what you gleam out of flying clubs and lists like this? Too much rural flying not helped me in this regard.

My only other experience of a system as complicated and subject to change like this is the UK inland revenue, but at least there they tell you about the changes.

PS

[The man formerly known as]

Polar,

I sympathise with you totally. It took me about a year to understand all of this.I think I have got it now.

Is there anyone who knows everything about it, I don't think so. I found Liz at SFT most useful.

Every time I call the CAA I get differing answers. Trick is to get them to write down the ones that favour you.

I found the White 19 AIC useful for converting UK licence to a JAA licence. There is another AIC on professional licences that confirms your UK ATPL passes are valid as long as the your IR is valid. (I think you can even lapse the IR for 7 years and still retain the licence).

To answer one of your questions. If you convert your 1300 hour UK frozen ATPL to a JAA CPL (R) you will get a full JAA CPL. The R Restriction only exists until you get 700 hours.You get the full ATPL issued when you do the 1500 hours including 500 multicrew.

As to what can you do with it, well once you convert your licence and get an IR you are there. Remember under the new system pilots get a CPL at 200 ish hours and then the ATPL is issued once you have 1500 hours including 500 multicrew.

Get the IR and start applying.

Hope this helps

[Polar_stereographic]

The man formerly known as.

Thanks for the answers. I understand fully the dificulty you've been having, and that was my point exactly.

We should meet for a fly. You've answered more questions in two posts that hours, literaly hours on phone to you know who.

PS

[FLY BY NIGHT]

ATPL(A) EXAMINATION CREDITS


We would like to correct a growing misconception within the aviation industry that the holder of a UK CPL/IR(A) with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits will lose those credits if he/she does not obtain a national ATPL(A) by 30 June 2002. It is true that CAA will not be able to issue a UK CPL(A) or ATPL(A) on or after 1 July 2002 except to a pilot who held that same licence on 30 June 2002 (ANO Article 22(2)(d), which means that a national licence can be renewed but an initial issue cannot be made. However, there is no necessity for a UK licence holder to convert to a JAR-FCL licence by any specific date and national licences can remain valid, so that a UK CPL/IR(A) can be renewed after 1 July 2002 and the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge credit will be retained. After 1 July 2002, at the point where a national ATPL(A) would have been issued, and provided the pilot meets all the criteria for conversion of a national to JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR-FCL ATPL(A). Until such time as EC Directive 91/670/EEC is withdrawn, and there appear to be no plans to do this in the immediate future, a UK national licence can still be validated for use in other EU States.

The only circumstance in which all holders of a UK national licence would be forced to obtain a JAR-FCL licence would be if the EU mandated such a move. The Authority has argued against such a suggestion and intends to continue to do so. However, in such an eventuality CAA would seek amendment to JAR-FCL to ensure that ATPL(A) knowledge credits are retained.

Date 2 February 2000

[touch&go]

I wouldn't worry about meeting the CAA ATPL requirements at the moment, past history tells us that the CAA goal posts move all the time.

[bustalevel]

Thanks for the info everyone. At the moment I have a CPL/IR and am just about to start looking for a job. What would the airlines say to someone who applied to them without having performance A? Go forth and multiply perhaps? Does anyone have any experience of this.

I don't want to sour my chances with any airline. You here so many stories in this game, but some are obviously just that! It's difficult to know what is the right thing to do when you are just "feeling your feet" in the business.

Any replies very welcome. When you read the posts past and present, you realise more and more just how little you know, and how much you have to learn. Fortunately, it restores my faith in human nature to see people respond to each other in these forums with such pofessionalism (most of the time) and good intention.

Thanks

[robione]

Iwould say YES u are going to need PERF A,or the JAR perf,whichever u choose to do.Airline aeroplanes are mostly if not all,perf a a/c.So if u start applying without ,you wont fulfill there requirments.Bite the bullet and go get it in the bag.Even if u were lucky enough to get a job offer,its a sure fire thing it would be on the basis that u went and did it,otherwise u would,nt be qualified to fly a perf a a/c.Off u go and get stuck in.

[skylord757]

go to Bristol and see the top man Alex. The extra date for perf a is for Bristol's students. They are the best!


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I HEARD A RUMOUR THAT MOUNTAINS SOMETIMES HIDE IN CLOUD!

[ronchonner]

apparently you do nt understand how the system work.
i hear the same b...t since 1992.
june 92,june 93, june 97, june 99 etc...
the goal of the JAA is to bring you the fastest possible in a JAA schools for your money.Even if you hurry up, they will change the rules again and again.If you finish your licenses now, it would not be valid after june X, and if you finish after june X, it s not enough because new laws are coming for june 2010...
the Jarland is a mess, they dont know what they want, but they are sure of one thing:YOU ARE GOING TO PAY!!!!!!!CUS THEY WANT YOUR MONEY, ALL YOUR MONEY AND THERE IS NO JOB FOR YOU!!!DO YOU LISTEN???DO YOU SEE THE CATCH, WHAT S WRONG WITH YOU???WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP TO BELIEVE CRAP EU SCHOOL AND CRAP GOVERNEMENT, IT'S SCANDALOUS!!GO TO THE USA,CANADA,AUSTRALIA AND GO FLY FOR YOUR MONEY, NOT FOR SOME STUPID BUREAUCRACTSBEHIND THEIR DESK LIVING WTH YOUR MONEY!i m mad and sad for you!i wish one day, your goverment stop to take you for a wallet!

[RVR800]

Good posts..

Roncho..

You digress..

The man formerly known as
PPRuNe ..

Is bang on the money I have a letter
from the CAA to this effect

Alex ..

This is good news indeed ..

[bustalevel]

Thanks for the info. I'm on the case.

Any further comments welcome

Cheers.