How old is too old for first RHS?

[aces low]

Before you condemn this thread to the 'wannabes' section, I would just like a bit of feedback from established crews (no wannabe bullsh1fters please). I am a CPL/IR FI with 650 hours looking for my first proper job at age 42, having come up through the self-improver JAR route. The market is so flat at the moment, I would be lucky to get a job aged 25 with 2000 hours in the bank. the feedback from other forums is either that I am well past it already and should give up hope of getting any kind of airline job and commit to career instruction. Yet on the flip side ther are others who suggest that if the market was more bouyant then age is no barrier yet.

What do you think? Remember i could be at least a year older before the market even starts to come off intensive care....all contributions gratefully received.

[m&v]

I'm not sure of the 'entry'inducements in the EU,but if you 'bought' your '37 endorsement(I hate advocating this route)wouldn't certain companies be interested??
you've 23years of productivety to offer,,,Several guys 'retiring' from my old airline 'still in the RHS of the 747'(by choice)
All the best
Cheers
:D

[STATLER]

Your not to old mate as we have disscussed at the school, I hope you get some good feed back on this forum from people who started at the same age(shade of grey) as you are. just for reassurance sake.

Just look at some of the younger students we have seen in the past and also the muppets over the road No competition for you.

You have life experience, are a decent bloke to chat with and are presentable as a prospective company representative.

Hang in there cos when I get a job you will be with me or not far behind or even ahead,THATS THE LOOK OF THE DRAW.

Stay in touch.

P.S you make a sh%te cup of tea

[thegypsy]

Aces Low I personally think you are too old at 42 because what you do not seem to have taken on board from those who say that they were the same age when they started some years ago is that things have changed in as much as when as you hope the market becomes more buoyant you will have to compete for a job from all those younger more experienced pilots from within the EU and more countries are joining soon and they all have been flying Boeings/Airbus plus of course those dual; passport holders from around the world.

Demand for Pilots may well be there in the UK in greater numbers in due course but so is the SUPPLY and you could be left out in the cold. I hope not but be prepared for it

[Herod]

Aces, thegypsy may be right, but so what ? Be prepared for disappointment but keep that hope alive. It's still the best job in the world, even if the cr*p gets thicker by the day. Good luck.

[Spirit of st. Louis]

42 old?????

not in the airline I work for! We have quite few guys on the books who started a second or third career in aviation.

What seems to matter is wether you are current or not and if you have had some recent hands on experience. (and a frozen ATPL)

Lots of luck getting in. Once you're in, you'll be there to stay.;)

[VMC]

Just landed my first commercial job at 43, with a very good company. ok so its not a jet job but be realistic, target your chosen company and go for it. The best advice I can give is, don't listen to the doom and depression normally associated with wannabe's, what do they know?

[thegypsy]

VMC Well done on your first job at 43. I would be interested to know what your salary is ,what it cost you to get your licence and what salary did you give up to become a Pilot??

A lot of wannabes have spent huge sums of money,taken on huge debts,some have given up well paid jobs to boot and see no light at the end of the tunnel. Those who have a family to look after as well are perhaps asking them to make too large a sacrifice.??

[Ananas]

Aces Low,

with 650hrs you are a beginner. Not many industries like to take people at a beginners level at age 43. If you have the experience, it's a different game.
On the other hand you have the offer-demand rule. When things will finally break open, airlines will be less picky about who to take and age will not be a too big problem.
5 years ago a rabbit with a licence could get a job flying A320, now the airlines can choose out of captains A340 who agree to fly FO A320. So you do not stand a chance.
But many CPL's with a few hundreds of hours have already given up hope, and changed carreers.
If you hang on long enough, it will pay off.

[Miserlou]

I know a chap who got a job on a Shed at age 58 after getting CPL, multi IR though he had close to 2000 hours.

You may not to get onto the heavy jet fleet but you could still have a very satisfactory career ending in the LHS of a Fokker or ATR.

Go for It!

[aces low]

Thanks for all the replies (optimistic and pessimistic). I appreciate it. My gut feel is that echoed by some of the guys... that it is the market that determines demand for new and inexperienced FOs. But surely this must change (admittedly with more pilots coming off the production line each year). Time will tell...but with more airlines moving away from turboprops towards jets, is this going to affect the type of person they recruit...or will the extra age and experince be viewed as a route to early captaincy and retention?

I guess know one knows at the moment

[CAP509castaway]

I and others have said this before Its not what you know its Who you know. If you don't know the right people ask around or in other words network, you may have to try the air taxi route to get on. The age is not such a major obstacle if you keep apositive mental attitude. Good Luck:p :p :p

[MaxAOB]

Long time dead mate so keep after what you want. You have to pay the bills so instruct part time to remain "currentish" but stay positive and realistic. Good Luck.

:O ;) :rolleyes: :} :yuk:

[Hawker@FL400]

Aces Low for what its worth I got my first commerical flying job at 36 (Biz jets HS125), the first company before that to offer me employment went bust on the day I joined!) Be prepared for the unexpected, especially in todays depressed market.

Im now at the age of 43, and a TRI/TRE with a large scheduled airline, however, it took me nearly 2 1/2 years to get full time employment. Despite your age if you have good exam results and a first time pass at the IR that maybe that will flag up some interest when conditions get better. (You also need to be very good at selling yourself!)

As an examiner what I will say is that if it has taken multiple attempts to pass your written exams, GFTs and the IR etc then airline flying may present an uphill struggle. All best wishes and good luck!

[Bigscotdaddy]

Aces Low

Don't give up! I didn't start studying for my Commercials until I was 42! Ten years later I was in the left seat of a Turbo-prop, but it was a long slog through the lean employment 90's. A similar situation exists now of course, but if you can make enough money instructing and maybe developing contacts, you'll get there eventually.
Your obvious 'best bet' is going to be the Commuter Turbo-prop airlines, as there's normally more turnover there when things improve, and they'll look on your age as a possible advantage in that you're more likely to stay.
Things are definately moving now (my company are now hiring again albeit in fairly small numbers), and once this Iraq business is settled, Airline expansion is likely to resume it's course.
So keep writing those applications, but more importantly, try to get to know some people on the inside. Good luck

[Ace Rimmer]

Aces Low don't be too sure about the rush to RJs continuing ad infinitum take a look at three of the best performing in terms of results and expansion there's two RJs out of a combined fleet of 50 or so aircraft. T/Ps ain't dead yet.
Don't take my word for it just last Monday I was talking to the head honcho of one of the biggest Regionals in the US and while they are big into RJs (they get 100th this summer) he said and I quote "we will always have turboprops on the basis that for some of our routes they are the only a/c that makes sense". Even so as others have said when things get going again there will be jobs for the right guys with the right tickets. And if you are the type that that wants to make a career with a regional instead of chasing the heavy iron you'd be welcomed with open arms...

[300-600]

AL

42 is not too old (we had a guy who joined age 53 , never got his command but that was because his brain had gone the same way as his body - seriously down hill).

This is the big issue , if you stay sharp and are prepared to work hard to overcome obstacles you will probably have a job this time next year.

If you still live around Manchester you are in the right place (if you want to cheer yourself up look at the business plan justification for Manchesters second runway). They didn't build it for a laugh and in ten years it will have eclipsed Gatwick.Liverpool is also looking promising (not often you can say anything good about Liverpool).

Hang in there , you'll be fine.

[northern boy]

Aces, dont take any of the naysayers too much to heart. The whole thing is market driven but it can and does happen.
When I started out at age 36, I was told that I was too old to ever fly a jet. 7 years down the line I'm in the RHS of a 747-400.

There are plenty of people for whom the airlines a second career. A bit of life experience makes a more rounded individual. You will also have something else to talk about in the bar, which can make you more interesting to the rest of the crew.

Best of luck.

[thegypsy]

northernboy Yes but things have changed in the last 7 years cos EU airlines are discarding pilots in huge numbers ,a lot quite young and all rated on Airbus/Boeings so why would they want to consider an old buffer of 42 with light aircraft hours only??
I am quite sure employers will not take into account the fact that he might be more fun on night stops in the bar as equally he might be the biggest bore ever seen!! :rolleyes:

[Mr Angry]

Got my first job at 45yrs of age, straight on to a BAe146. Big step up, but managed. Been made redundant a couple of times, and am now slumming it on an turbo-prop (at the age of 48), and earn a 1/4 of what I was earning 10 years ago. I don't expect to ever get a job on anything larger than an EMB145 or RJ but that'll do me fine if it were to happen, again.

Having said that, would I do it again, then the answer is NO. I can live with what I have had to go through to get here, but it has cost my wife and family dearly, especially my wife's health, and I would never put her through that again. Had a good job which would have funded a good aerobatic single or twin, and I could have filled my boots, and still earned good money, without the hassle of sim rides, medicals every 6 months, etc. Problem is you don't believe it when your mates tell you that flying a shiny jet becomes nothing more than a job. The novelty does wear off. Sure there are some wonderful moments, but its still just a job and it isn't the kind of flying that captured my interest in the first place.

All the same I wish you the very best luck in your search. You will get there you youngster you.

[Earthmover]

Aces, just want to say that I have been flying for 34 years, and the novelty HAS NOT worn off! I just love it. If you do too, there ain't nothing - not logic, not common sense, not finances that will keep you away from trying. There's nothing so blind as love! Best of luck.