Doha or Dubai

[Comanche]

Like the rest of the world, I am quite keen to join Emirates and bring my young multi-national out to Dubai. They would be quite happy, in fact they would be thrilled to settle there for a long time. However, I do not have an interview date yet and realize it is difficult to get in with EK. I am just wondering if I should also start thinking about joining Qatar Airways. Would there be any advantages of working for QR (doubt it reading all the negative comments on Pprune) but more importantly can ANYONE give me an honest opinion about living in Doha versus living in Dubai presently and in the foreseeable future? For example, it appears it is difficult to find vacant school spaces for children. Perhaps this is far easier in Doha. Thanks to all replying.

[Qatari515]

Doha VS Dubai.....

It all depends if you are a family man or not. If yes, then Doha is much better! If you like to have millions of activities, nightclubs and restaurants....then go to Dubai!

Doha is very small and quit, everything so far is orientated to families with lots of activities, spectatcles, childrens playgrounds and parks, good schools etc.....Its very safe as well, alcohol usage is limited and criminality is almost inexistant. No prostitution visible.....

Dubai is more a world city with all the positive and negative aspects of it.....as I said, it all depends what you are looking for.

I have lived in both and I have to say that I like Doha a lot. Its not as hectic as Dubai, the life style is very easy going, desert driving is nice, the cornishe is beautifull!
I do not spend half the amount of money that I used to spend in Dubai, mainly because the temptations are not as big here.....

Doha is changing rapidly though and overhere we are all hoping that they wont make the same listake as Abu Dhabi and that is to try to copy Dubai!

EK vs QR.......thats another question although I am confident that QR is moving in the right direction.....:p

[Gnadenburg]

Comanche

Imagine the worst and most restricitive Indian resevation you could reside in-that is Doha. It is a dump.

Yes they are building infrastructure but the arrogance and lack of liberalism makes it a tough place to live.

Couple the living stresses of Doha with a Nazi management structure and you have ulcers.

Go Dubai Chief.

[Qatari515]

Gnadenburg,

comanche asked for an honest and straight forward opinion here......not this kind of low leveled and weak style of bashing!

Give facts and let people make up their own minds! They do not need your stupid remarks......:yuk:

[Comanche]

Qatari515, thanks for the info. I may have an opportunity to join Qatar and am seriously considering it because the wait for an interview and competition to get into EK is long and tough. If possible, would you be able to tell me a little more concerning an average day of work with Qatar. I have ready so many negative comments. No doubt some are true, but these incidences may be limited. I would like to know if and how any of these negative forces that are in the air affect an average day work, give me some practical examples. Also, you have mentioned before the average pay and flying hours. But on average, how many days are you actually rostered to fly (specify standbys please) and how many night stops?? Also, can you confirm that once joined there is this gentlemans agreement that EK will not take you on.

Many thanks

[Gnadenburg]

Qatari515

This was a subjective post and you are arrogant to suggest my opinion otherwise.

I have spent a few weeks in Doha and have anecdotal of nazi style management within Qatar airways from former colleagues now working there.

I don't like the place and many would struggle to work under their management style long term- as evidenced by the high turnover.

These are the subjective facts so cope with a world that has an opinion that differs from yours.

Good day.

[4HolerPoler]

Chill out guys.

Please.

4HP

[newswatcher]

Comanche,

There seems to be two questions here. What is it like to live in Qatar?, and "What is it like to work for QA?"

In answer to the first, and as posted on another thread, I spent the whole of a Sunday afternoon recently, talking to families over in the UK for a break. Most of them had been in Doha for over 5 years, and couldn't wait to get back, even with the impending Iraq crisis. They work for Qatar Gas. They visit Dubai, for short breaks, when the want a bit more "cosmopolitan" exposure. They have nothing but praise for the standard of living they enjoy, the sports facilities, and the education system, right up to "A"-level.

I haven't been to Dubai for 2 years. Previous to that, I made a few short business trips, and lived there for three years, back in the 80s. My impression was that although the infrastructure had been improved, some of the Eastern European "influences" had not added to the quality of the place! However, I would still go back and work there, if the opportunity arose. One person I spoke to has been there for over 20 years, and he is thinking of retiring there!

As for working for QA, there are plenty of threads on this. If you haven't already, suggest you contact one of those who seems to enjoy it there, and one of those who doesn't, but makes a sensible argument to support this.

Good luck.

:D

[Comanche]

Qatar is starting to sound really good now to live. Yes, I am a family man and attach great importance to all strenghts mentioned of this small country. Indeed there are many posts on actually being employed with them, but it is difficult to get a general idea whether or not these negative points would take the joy out of going to work on an average day. Sure, people have mentioned things about no more orange juice and cappuccino, no variety in crew food and the alleged terror of the mighty CEO A.B., but these all seem trivial. At the end of the day, one needs to look at the advantages of being out there and weigh them up against the bad points. So would it all be worth it I wonder?????

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

Guys, having lived in Qatar for some time, I would go along with the Lonely Planet explanation of the most boring place on earth. If you get out regularly it makes it better. If you and the family are stuck there, I kid you not, there is virtually nothing to do, maybe a bit of dune bashing if you have a 4WD, swimming at the hotels when its not too hot/cold, nightlife is very limited. If you make your own entertainment and are not really worried about the above it might be bearable but I know very few people who have been there long term.

The other thing to remember are is that QR are such hire & fire specialists that you may get there with your family and then be fired for going to the cafeteria on the 7th floor without express written permission...and be on your way out again. Seriously, I don't think anyone working for QR really feels secure, myself and everyone I know don't.

You should check out conditions for QR..with a family you only get concessions & benefits for 3 kids and they only pay 50% of schooling charges which amounts to a relatively large proportion of a relatively small salary...so be warned.

[A300Man]

Wow - I can't believe how such a simple honest question turned into what seems like a huge political debate.......you guys aren't doing justice to Comanche who seeks some honest feedback, not off-topic bickering!


Anyway, for what it's worth, I have lived in both Doha and Dubai.

Dubai is big and busy and modern and almost western!
Doha is smaller, quieter, still developing and, for me, retains more Arabic character than Dubai does. There is still plenty to do in Doha and I wouldn't describe it at all as the most boring place on earth.

True, many people living in Doha do escape to Dubai for the odd long weekend. However, many people living in Dubai also make it across to Doha for the same reason.

I personally recommend Doha, and feel that it will develop over the next 5-7 years into a medium sized, well appointed city.

Dubai has already surpassed that, and retains hardly any character at all.

The question you must also consider is your employment options. I can add nothing further to the extensive posts that have already been seen here on Pprune on both EK and QR.

Both have positives and negatives. EK is not always the sleek outfit that they appear on the outside. Neither is QR as mediocre as everyone thinks.

(What about the new Gulf Air?)

[Comanche]

It seems like there is some disagreement on the attractiveness of Doha. I will have to draw my own conclusions. More importantly, I am having doubts about QR. Don't like the sound of the hiring and firing practices. Give me some real examples of everyday things that could get you into trouble. Also:

-the alternative is a low cost carrier with all of its disadvantages. What would be better, being a slave for a low cost carrier with almost continuous need for relocation and flying short haul in cold/rainy/grey/depressing NW Europe or working for QR with all of the negative aspects, but with only one base and in a sunny country.

-where does QR do their Airbus training and is there lots of firing done during training??

By the way, some one has mentioned an F/O takes home around 21000 Q a month. Even with school fees etc that still seems like a very decent pay. Am I missing here something??

[mutt]

By the way, some one has mentioned an F/O takes home around 21000 Q a month. Even with school fees etc that still seems like a very decent pay. Am I missing here something??

I guess that it depends on how many kids you have :):)

Mutt.

[Ready]

Comanche, here are some true facts:

_ A First Officer with 3 kids going to a decent school, living in a decent villa in a decent compound, driving a used car, brings nothing home.

_ You work on a day off to accomodate them, you get nothing.

_ Your days off are moved around because they're short of crews, it's your problem, you get nothing.

_ Your annual leave is moved to a later date because they're short of crews, it's your problem and you get nothing in return.

_ Training Captains get a 1600 riyal bonus per month. But since they make less on the per diem (I'll save you the details), they actually make less as they have to report earlier than the other pilots, and leave office later after paper work/de-briefing is done and so on......and it's their problem.

All expat employees go home at least twice a year, you get one free ticket. It's your problem. With your family around, you'll note that almost every riyal you earn here, stays here in Qatar and/or goes back to QR.

The CEO approves all of the above and unfortunately is extremely comfortable with it and from what we hear, it is not about to change. At least, if working harder and being more accomodating to them would bring a higher pay check, but no.

Doha with a family, specially if you have kids, is just fine. It is for us anyway. My two grains of sand worth of advice, is to come over here on your own until training is over, than decide for the rest of the family. From what I read, you ask the same questions than I did before joining and although most comments were negative I decided to join anyway, and my conclusion is that, if only corrections were made to my above concerns, we could be around for some time, but we'll see...................

See you in Doha!

[abuspilot]

I am sorry to disagree with Qatari 515:cool:

But, I totally agree with ready!

[CaptSnails]

Comanche it really depends what you're looking for. If it is joining an Airline for a career or just to build up hours. If it's career you're after I think you should forget about QR.
At Emirates you will at least be treated as a professional, in QR more like an Indian houseboy (no disrespect to Indian houseboys intended).

[Qatari515]

Maybe you could do an effort then and try to explain why......

and plse do not confuse Doha with Qatar Airways, nor Qatari with QR managment.....

If you have been here a while you can actually see a difference:eek:

[Comanche]

Chances are good that Doha will suit us fine to live, but I believe there are too many uncertainties regarding the airline itself. The bottomline is that I attach great importance to stability. If I end up with continuous worrying about upsetting people and getting fired, then this type of environment is too unsettling and unsatisfying. I prefer just to do the job without much or any interference, occassionally mess something up and being able to be open about it, and if need be stand up for yourself and to other people. Doesn't sound as if that would be appreciated at this airline.

[thegypsy]

Comanche You really are naive in the extreme.! No ex-pat Airline would appreciate your views. There is no job security in any ex-pat Airlines on the lines of what you think is reasonable. Stay where you are or throw the dice and take your chances.

[CaptSnails]

What exactly would you like me to explain Qatari515? The fact that the vast majority of Qataris have no respect for anyone and anything, that they are under the impression that money entitles them to treat people like trash?
No need to explain, just look around you. Go down to your local KFC and wait in line and watch how these little 15 year old spoilt bratts talk to the poor guys behind the counter. You will soon realize the great Qatari civilization.

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

Mmmm..cant say I fundamentally disaagree with Capt Snails...even their Arab "brothers" in the GCC have a particularly low opinion of them. You may think this is irrelevent but it applies to many of the Qatari management in QR who do mostly do their own thing.

[33-320]

look ,


I only hear about the tow companies and cities , but i know a lot about Gulf air in bahrain and it seems very much in between them , so why dont you give it a try and have the best of both worlds.

[Qatari515]

Hey guys,

did you ever realised that there might be other qatari as well then the one yopu see in the KFC and flying over Roundabouts in their cruisers???

If you would have ever met an well educated qatari you would know what I am trying to say! Hell, the average american or UK citizen isnt that great to look at either.....:yuk:

[CaptSnails]

Qatari515 if you make an effort to read my previous post you will find I said "the vast majority of Qatari's". Besides I'm not trying to convince anyone, Qatari's have built themselves quite a reputation in the Gulf without my help, all I'm doing is informing the uninformed.
If you don't like the truth then that's just tuff.

PS If you did'nt appreciate my example of the spoilt bratt in KFC look at the spoilt bratt called AAB who's closer to you. Pretty much the same as the KFC one. In fact one may argue that the KFC spoilt bratt can look forward to growing up and becoming an even bigger (not in size mind you) spoilt bratt like AAB who can abuse and disgrace even more people.

[Goldstone]

You definitely wouldn't want to make up your mind without hearing my views!

Living ... yes, folks, Doha is right up there with the most boring places on earth and the longer you are there the more boring it gets ... yawn ... Add to that a horrendous climate throughout the summer months.

Working for QR ... not nice whatever your job. Most people I know have taken the job because there's nothing better around at the time, found out that it's just as bad as they had heard, and left as soon as a better job comes along.

[A300Man]

This thread has probably run its course Comanche. You will have seen a wide and varied number of opinions above. Probably best to make up your own mind, since the advice that you will get (Particularly when on the subject of QR) will ALWAYS be divided. The nature of the division makes it pretty well balanced. For every negative point about QR, there is also a positive point. (That last sentence pretty well sums it up for me.)

In this day and age and in view of the current employment situation, my advice would be dip a toe in the water before jumping in at the deep end.

Whilst some hate it, others love it. Whilst some positively detest it, others crave it. (applies to both Qatar and Qatar Airways).

Whilst what we have all said above may give you either a good or bad impression, it's really up to YOU to take it as YOU find it and make the most of it until YOU feel its time to move on.

You never know, a new CEO in a few months time may make a difference...

[HF-in-Doha]

A300Man,

You never know, a new CEO in a few months time may make a difference...

Have the rumours about the new CEO come back?

[homesick rae]

A300 man, a new CEO??????? Insh'alla....

I won't hold my breath!

I am sure a lot of people would consider reapplying if AAB left!

It would be lovely to see the people still there getting some relief. They work damn hard and get no thanks!

Comanche, A300 man is right...it depends on what you make of it...only YOU can decide!

[Comanche]

THANKS TO ALL REPLYING.

I may try to hold out for an EK interview first, and if I am unsuccessful I will re-consider. Meanwhile, I have had two offers from low cost airlines, which I am seriously considering.

Blue SKIES