View Full Version : easyBuses are coming!

Buster the Bear
12th Mar 2003, 18:59
Wed 12 Mar 2003

easyJet investors back Airbus purchase

easyJet said Wednesday its shareholders have approved the airline’s purchase of 120 Airbus A319 aircraft and options to buy 120 more.
The total list price of the 120 new aircraft would be about $5.3bn, but easyJet said it has been granted very substantial price concessions by Airbus and engine manufacturers General Electric and Snecma.
The deal makes easyJet the first European budget carrier to operate a mixed fleet. To date it has only used Boeing 737 aircraft in a bid to keep costs down, but the airline estimates the Airbuses will help it achieve 30% savings, including operating costs.
The single-aisle aircraft will be fitted with 150 seats, compared with 149 on Boeing’s 737-700s. They are due for delivery over five years from September 2003.


12th Mar 2003, 21:52
Airbus should make the most of this because they won't sell much in the USA for quite a while.

12th Mar 2003, 22:07

You say the 319 will have 150 seats. Are you sure? If this is true they will have to have 4 crew compared to 3 with 149 seats. Seems very expensive for just one extra seat.

13th Mar 2003, 00:04
Think you're wrong qwerty,I'm fairly sure the rules are 1 cabin crew for each 50 seats.

Few Cloudy
13th Mar 2003, 07:21
Well the punters may have voted for it but the share prices don't reflect their optimism - below 1.80 this morning. Maybe it's Tony's war...

Max Autobrake
13th Mar 2003, 08:46
Remains to be seen whether all these Airbuses will actually enter passenger service on schedule - I've heard that they want to introduce 11 aircraft in four weeks later this year.

Rumour has it that the Chief Training Captain has stood down over this specific issue - he thinks it's an impossible task, and given the current crewing, rostering and operational problems, I see trouble ahead........

13th Mar 2003, 09:10

will ANYONE be selling much in the USA in the near future?

13th Mar 2003, 10:38
Proof is in the eating.
You wont be able to do 25min turnrounds for starters.:cool:

no sig
13th Mar 2003, 12:25
Max having spoken with the CTC on this subject your rumour is wrong.

Anthony Carn
13th Mar 2003, 12:39
You wont be able to do 25min turnrounds for starters.
Can someone please expand upon this ? Why not ? A genuine enquiry -- I'm not being sarchastic.

13th Mar 2003, 13:03
Was there any information about the DBA - purchase? The decision was to be made public within this month.

13th Mar 2003, 13:14

<<You wont be able to do 25min turnrounds for starters>>

Exactly where is the Airbus different so that these are not achievable?

Having just converted onto the 319, even in training we were easily doing ~35 min turnarounds with time to spare - and that's as a Nigel. So no problem on the Flt Deck - and I can't see the cabin being any different from a Boeing?


13th Mar 2003, 13:23
25mins turnround was mainly directed towards Luton .
Where we havent achieved a consistant 25min with the b737 with the benefit of Forward steps.
The Airbus will be even worse without its own front steps and not enough staff to place them.:cool:

Max Autobrake
13th Mar 2003, 13:28
no sig

Well I spoke to him last week - that's what he told me!

This reason was also given on the Company Balpa forum, so please tell us what he told you, has he changed mind about why he's stood down? :eek:

Wee Weasley Welshman
13th Mar 2003, 13:59
I thought the easyJet spec for the A319 was with forward airstairs. Turnarounds should be the same or better is the theory. Although baggage is harder to load due to a higher door the pax aisle is wider which allows faster boarding. Pax boarding is usually the time critical path.

I think there will be 152 seats as well. Presumably they won't ever sell the last 2.


13th Mar 2003, 14:02

So they won't even be available for Staff Travel???!!!

Max Autobrake
13th Mar 2003, 14:11
no sig

Also just heard that all the GVA pilots will be at Toulouse doing their Airbus ratings in Aug-Sept - so where is the spare capacity to operate TopSwiss?

And what's this I hear about MK's desire to "align" Training Captains' pay?

Lord Fulmer
13th Mar 2003, 15:04
Aah Max,

I also heard that we're all off to Switzerland for the Summer, whilst the Cuckoo Clock Makers are all off in France.

That is, to be precise,aircraft, pilots and cabin crew, as we cannot fly or make tea in their HB registered 737 beasties. Since the NMC are having immense difficulty in running the program at present, robbing (or more like mugging) Peter to pay Paul on a daily basis, just how are we going to do it?

Before some smart @rse says that it won't cause any disruption, just think about the facts, and the fact that all of their crews will have to be trained ASAP.

It is no use sending a couple of bods off to be rated at a time, as when the Buses turn up, everyone will need to be able to fly 'em.
How many are they getting, 5 or 6 to start off with- 5 or so crews a Bus, thats 30 Skippers and 30 FO's that all need to be processed.

Oh yes, I'm looking forward to Summer! What fun its going to be!

No wonder the CTC has waived the White Flag , having declared it unworkable, and quite rightly does not want to have his (excellent) name attached to it.

no sig
13th Mar 2003, 16:14

There will be a planned minimum of 20 new pilots coming to the B737 fleet per month for the next 12 months at least , this to meet the requirement, and you're correct - the support for the EZS fleet obviously needs to come from EZY. On the other issue, don't know.

Re CTC, as its a personal thing for him and I don't think it needs discussed anymore.

13th Mar 2003, 16:53
A320 and A321 suffer from a tailtipping issue.If during a turnaround there is too much weight at the rear.You cannot board and disembark simultaneously.Also the baggage takes a while to load.I cant really see that a 25 min turnaround is realistic on an airbus,although in other ways it is a good aircraft for a lca.

13th Mar 2003, 18:05
A320 and A321 suffer from a tailtipping issue

So what's that got to do with the A319 exactly?

Buster the Bear
13th Mar 2003, 19:36
Now if Airbus have indeed offered aircraft very cheaply and a smooth integration for this new type into easy, then Airbus must be covering for the fact that crew will have to by type rated and thus out of the mainstream loop for a while.

Is it possible for Airbus to pay for 'leased with crew' aircraft to cover?

Share price took a dive when Now! announced thier impending arrival at Luton!!!!!!!!!!!!!

13th Mar 2003, 20:28
I understood that they were going to try to have their 319s supplied with 156 seats, and were applying for a "waiver" of the 1 CC per 50 seats rule, so that they could still operate with just 3 CC per flight.

WWW & kriskross - even if they don't sell those last 2 seats (or 6) the rule is applied to how many SEATS are in an aircraft, not how many PAX are occupying them.

cheers ;)


13th Mar 2003, 21:24
156 seats
4 cabin staff
no airstairs (would have cost a fortune)
5 aircraft for ez swiss this year
22 aircraft for ezy next year starting march
1 per week for 11 weeks
20 min turnarounds no problem if ground support adequate

So there:cool:

13th Mar 2003, 22:13

<<Airbus should make the most of this because they won't sell much in the USA for quite a while>>

That makes sense. USA’s only European supporters over Iraq are UK and Spain. Both of whom have a very high stake and content in buses.
Mind you, French Fries didn’t originate in France either!!!

13th Mar 2003, 22:52
The tail tipping only applies to the A320, not the 321 and only then in rare circumstances when hold baggage is mishandled.

The flight deck of an airbus can be 'turned round' in the length of time it takes to

1) Activate secondary for the stored route you typed in earlier
2) Insert perf, loadsheet
3) Brief for departure

So about 2 minutes then.

All you easy pax out there - there's much more legroom, and free drinks, on BA's 319s. And we don't run out of basics like de-icing fluid in the Winter ;) (removes pin, lobs grenade, ducks into trench)

Anthony Carn
14th Mar 2003, 06:26
{1} --To qoute Fly_Right -- 20 min turnarounds no problem if ground support adequate.

....if ground support adequate

AAAAH ! I see the problem, now ! ;)

{2} -- If airstairs are not to be supplied, then that's a tad daft. Any expense would surely have been absorbed by the seemingly desperate Airbus Industrie n'est ce pas ?

...or did they veto that as well......:rolleyes:

fast cruiser
14th Mar 2003, 07:59
Overstress are you sure about this statement
And we don't run out of basics like de-icing fluid in the Winter!!!!

Please cast your mind back to end of Jan, Landed on 27R, informed by ATC no stand available of an hour, taxi to 27R holding area and join the long line af a/c waiting a stand.

When asked why, one of your mob informed us that BA had run out of de-icing fluid and nothing was pushing back. 1 hr 30 mins later eventually got onto B8 (108 soon) very P****d off,

Did no one on the ground look at the forecast and order more!!!




14th Mar 2003, 13:33

I'm afraid my reference was to a not very funny 'inside' joke!!!

Lord Fulmar,

4 of the aircraft are 33Vs with a British identity, IB is the only problem one.

In trim
14th Mar 2003, 18:37
No the eJ Buses will NOT come with airstairs. The stairs on the Bus are very steep and open-tread, so not ideal (or safe) for high volume operations. They are also expensive and add weight.

There is no reason for the A319 turnround to be any slower than the 737 (and can be quicker if the ground support is right).

Sure, you may lose a minute positioning forward steps compared with deploying airstairs, but then boarding up/down mobile steps is quicker than steep narrow airstairs, so you get that time back. Also the aisle is wider and the overhead bins larger = quicker boarding.

As for the baggage, the hold is far easier to work in (and the cargo door far more central to the rear hold than on the 320/1) so the whole baggage process will be easier.

So why should a 319 t/rnd be slower than a 737?

15th Mar 2003, 06:28
One thing that everyone has overlooked is that the Airbus can handle a little fog. Lost count of all those easy Boeings that end up somewhere they shouldn’t.

Talking of fog the link taxiway that will allow a one-way system at Luton won’t operate during low visibility due to the uncontrolled road crossing where gatehouse 2 is at present.

In trim
15th Mar 2003, 08:34
True when compared to most of the current eJ fleet, but the last few 737-700s (and all future deliveries) are Cat IIIB.

Max Autobrake
15th Mar 2003, 18:45
.....CAT IIIB they may be, but whoever made this decision did not consult the training department - they can't do IIIB training!

$1.5M well spent!

15th Mar 2003, 22:32
Purely in passing , a certain favourite airline who also has a large number of 319`s squeezes in 126 pax .The thought of an x-tra 23/4 seats is a bit of a nightmare , but I suppose at £10 a seat u got to squeeze them in !!

16th Mar 2003, 13:49
CormacL, is that all-economy? Didn't think that that certain favorite airline did that.

16th Mar 2003, 20:44
After trying to get on the shuttle to houndslow international , only to find out that the reg 767 had been replaced by a 319 I asked what the config was . 126 happy econ pax and 26 unhappy real pax (not to mention 18 staff) who where left behind , but hey the load factor was excellant apparently:confused:

In trim
17th Mar 2003, 08:59

But I bet on the airline you are talking about, the first 10 feet of the cabin is taken up with catering stowages, Club Class wardrobes, etc. etc. (take those out and you've gained 2 rows = 12 seats straight away), and very similar at the rear.

Take out the elements you don't need for the eJ service, re-jig the galley/toilet configurations slightly, and a few extra rows will fit no problem. The seat pitch on the eJ A319's will be the same (or marginally better in some areas) than the 737's.

17th Mar 2003, 15:56
Suppose our orange brothers will be advertising/have advertised for bus rated pilots then?

:yuk: := :} :p :rolleyes: