Fokker 100 Flaps

[INLAK]

Over the weekend, I was in the queue at for 24 at EDI, behind a KLM uk F100. What flap setting do F100`s use for take-off? There seemed to be very little flaps out, although this could have been due to the angle from which we were looking.

Any F100 pilots clear this up?

Thanks.

[INLAK]

Thanks.

Anyone care to elaborate as to why they use this unusual procedure?

[36050100]

Standard flap setting for take-off for F70 and F100 is zero. Biggest problem occurs on the few occasions when you need flap (e.g. contaminated runway), it's easily forgotten as it's not standard and the take-off config wont generate an alert if flap setting is zero. (Seen it a few times in the sim).

Sorry for the delay in replying..............................:)

[GAFA]

I think 0, 8 and 15 are available for take off.

[fokkerjet]

Our standard take-off flap setting is 8 degrees (F70), use zero when performance dictates its use, and can't ever recall using 15.

[ZAGORFLY]

I have read somewere that Flap selection and trust setting effect the NP (neutral Point of Lift) of the Foker wing at the point that inaccurate CG calculation could result in loss of control.
Particulaly on landing configuration when you are deploying full flap and power the NP shift cosiderably foward. can somebody kindly espalin?
thanks

[Nubboy]

Not flown the F100 in18 months, or the F70 in over 4 years and the memory is going, but..

In the UK we used to regard the F100 as needing 6000 feet (1850m ish) for zero flap. Less than that, flap 15 and rated thrust took care of most things without having to look too closely at detailed performance. Heavy out of somewhere like Malaga in summer, esp. on 32, the figures needed looking at quite carefully for optimum performance.

When we had a larger performance department, we normally had a quick reference flex card for our regular destinations which saved looking up the big book.

Flap full was the normal order of the day for landing, the last increment giving a whole shed load of drag. This if I remeber correctly gave a nose down pitch due to the drag line being very low.

Other flap settings, although allowed were normally saved for the sim (eg flap 25 for single engine landing I think).

Hope this helps.

[Quaks]

Hi y`all, new at pprune. Reading your threads for quite a long time now and now feel to comment things myself.
Concerning flaps at the F100, I most of the time use 0 flaps even at MTOW. Seldomly do I use flaps 8, never flaps 15. Flaps 8 are needed mostly for 2nd segments and always used after de-icing. Performance calculation differ though, depending on balance or unbalanced TO calculations.
Landing flaps are mostly 42, but 25 flaps should be trained even during line operation.
25 flps may be needed to land in Sarajevo at minimum to be able meet the GA climb requirements.
Bye:)

[dv8]

Haven't operated the F100 for 4 years, was only on the type for a year or so but got at least 2 r/t calls stating that our flaps weren't selected for take off

While were on the subject of the 100 I was told anecdotally. That when Fokker first flew the F100 they were so confidant of the auto-land system, that the first landing was an auto. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

[Piltdown Man]

Flaps O is the standard for take off in both 70 & 100. Apparently something to do with a clean, modern wing. For Landing, 42 but 25 for certain circumstances.

[SLFguy]

Thread drift I know but still with the F100..... On Monday I flew Amsterdam - Bologna with KLM and noticed something with this a/c that I hadn't discerned before, ( I fly weekly on average, but not on F100s)...there seemed to be very small rocking or rolling of the a/c, (just a few degrees I would imagine), and at the same time a gentle yawing that appeared to be in sync with the rolling...was a very strange feeling once I had noticed it and it took a couple of bottles of wine for it to disipate. Is this a F100 fleet wide effect or just the situation on the day?

[ComeByChance]

This from the Flight Techniques Section of the Fokker produced F100 AOM .

Take-off

General

Unless stated otherwise, the take-off procedure in this section presuppose the following conditions: ATA profile (TRA and ACCEL ALT: 1000 ft AGL), flap 8, ATS and FD on and NAV armed:
The IATA take-off profile is recommended for operators who have to comply with stringent noise requirements.

Flap 0, 8 and 15 are available for take-off.

Special instructions for take-off from contaminated runways or in cold weather are provided in section Adverse Weather Operations.

And further on in Adverse Weather Operations

Windshear

Flap 15 gives the best performance if the shear is encountered on the runway (lowest VR). Flap 0 gives the best climb performance. Flap 8 is recommended as the best compromise for the situation.

[Piltdown Man]

Of the thousands of flights I've done (in the back and front) in F70/F100, more than 95% of the departures were done with Zero flap. It's the standard setting. As for the rolling and tail wagging - some do do that from time to time. When it starts getting too bad, a nice man from Martinair comes and adjusts a bolt or screw thingamybob. Sorry about the ride - I'm glad the company supplied anesthetic helped.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

SLF guy,

This phenomenon, when encountered at low speed (eg in the V2-plus-a-bit climb and on the approach) is caused by vortex shedding... I had this explained to me years ago when I flew the F100, and can't remember the detail of the explanation, I'm afraid. It's quite noticeable, and like towing a caravan, one has to avoid the urge to try to correct it as this is likely to get out of synch and cause a worsening. Never a real problem, just a little odd and uncomfy sometimes.

In other flight regimes, it's likely to be to do with U/S yaw dampers and the like...

[instructorpenguin]

Not flown the Fokker for a couple of year due CAA medical Dept.

However roll in cruise is not vortex shedding, but mis-alignment of ailron system pfcu neutrals. Has been a problem since aircraft first in service with Air Europe. I think the man from Martinair fiddles with the RVDT's which transmit the neutral point of the ailrons back to the FCC's.

[Flap40]

It also seems to be the AHRS aircraft that exibit the rolling. The IRS aircraft are better.

[fokkerjet]

Of the thousands of flights I've done (in the back and front) in F70/F100, more than 95% of the departures were done with Zero flap. It's the standard setting.

Maybe "it's standard" in your operation, but here in the US, 99.9% of all F70 take-offs are Flaps 8, unless I decide to take off Flaps 0:ok:

[Kit d'Rection KG]

My memory is improving...

We used to use 8 or 15, but only at ABZ, INV, and NWI, I think. The drill used to be to put an empty coffee cup over the flap handle at the planning stage, to assist in remembering to put the flaps out before take off - a simple means of trapping a very straightforward error.

[Piltdown Man]

We must be talking about the airline who once used to have a Union flag upon the tail! The coffee cup used to work really well for the take-off but we also used to have lots of discussions about the little "F" and the red/black hatching on the top of the speed tape which occurred durring the climb out.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Full marks... happy days, until 'Henny I shrunk the airline' arrrived...

Do you remember the ground squirrel incident?

On the tech front, wasn't that the flap retraction speed/manoeuvring speed, and the flap speed limit?

[taildrag]

I flew the Fokker 100 several years for the late Midway Airlines. We trained to American Airlines specs, and :ok: flaps 8 was standard for takeoff. USAirways also operated a fleet of Fokker 100s in the US. Don't know what they used.
So, did the big blue circle fleet move up from the F-70 to the F-100?