Short Runways

[Go-Around]

For all you jet drivers out there, what do you consider to be a short runway?
Thanks,
GA

[Doors to Automatic]

It depends on what sort of jet you are driving, whether you are heavy, the weather, field elevation etc.

[Go-Around]

Medium size jet, 757/A320, standard temps, alts and average weights. The usual UK based charter routes.
GA

[Doors to Automatic]

I would say anything below 6000 feet is getting a bit on the short side.

Once you get below this length you would probably be weight restricted on take-off although the 757 can still cope pretty well being a fairly powerful beast!

For landing I would guess you need at least 5000-5500 feet for these aircraft types.

[Groundbased]

Take a look at Santos Dumont airport in Rio de Janeiro.

Water at both ends and parallel runways of 1323m and 1260m respectively.

Many 737 landings there and A320, daily, see this site, http://digilander.libero.it, for some pictures.

Went in as SLF last year. Departing was interesting, due to the Sugar Loaf mountain being right in front so an immediate left turn was called for.

[Wycombe]

757's at SOU look quite interesting - approx 1700m.

The JKK A320 that goes to TFS during the Winter from SOU tech-stops at NTE on the way down.

BA once landed an L1011 at JER (back in the late '70's AFAIK, to clear a pax backlog) :eek:

[Doors to Automatic]

Jersey and Aberdeen both have short runways (6000ft and 5400ft respectively) and both handle jets up to 757 size regularly.

I once heard of an MD-80 departure from Aberdeen where the aircraft only just became airborne at the end of the runway - I think it was going to Palma.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/041994/M/

Even 11,100 feet is only just long enough sometimes!

Dont try this at home:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/321482/M/


:eek:

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I'm glad I wasn't in either of those, some serious miscalculations no doubt.:eek:

I used to work at Elstree, approx 650 metres 2% uphill slope, and there was a Citation based there, that used to be a bit of a squeeze.

[Wycombe]

Looks like the IL96 @ Phuket has a bit of high ground ahead aswell!

Once paxed on a charter L1011 (approx 400 pax) LTN-LCA on a warm, calm Summers evening, which felt similar.

I believe Maersk used to (or maybe still do) operate 735's into Vagar in the Faroes, which is about 1300m.

[reynoldsno1]

Gibraltar was always a pretty sporty type of landing - and take-off as well at times.

[greybeard]

Antwerp 1500m, traffic lights at the end of 29 to stop the cars for t/offs and landing, wing was just about over the footpath on lineup, all good fun in an F-28.
Also DC-6/7, 737 and many old types as well.

Did they extend that runway as was rumoured?

Ah, the memories of large power reductions to keep the noise down over the houses.

[MerchantVenturer]

Bristol Lulsgate (BRS) has a short runway of 6,600 feet. It also undulates quite noticeably, is at a 600 foot elevation and experiences severe weather problems with fog and mist throughout the year, although the winter months are usually the worst.

A year or so ago a Cat III landing system came on line on the western runway, but the reciprocal eastern runway cannot be so equipped because of falling ground immediately outside the airport boundary. Even on the western runway diversions still take place because many of the smaller regional jets in particular are not Cat III equipped.

Although its smaller neighbours (in passenger terms) at CWL and EXT do have occasional trans-Atlantic flights, BRS rarely does. Its last 'across the pond' service was a weekly Canada 3000 B 752 to Toronto before that company went bust. Even then the flight routed via GLA.

BRS management insist the runway is capable of non-stop 757 flights to eastern USA and Canada but I remain to be convinced that this is feasible on a regular basis.

[big.al]

I'm not a jet driver (the biggest I manage is C150s) but landing as pax in a 737 at Skiathos was interesting. The runway threshold is just a few yards from the marina and the tops of yatch masts seemed only feet away! The runway is so short (with a 30ft drop onto a beach directly at the opposite end) that any pax not well strapped in ended the flight with their nose pressed firmly against the seat back in front of them...

Most flights returning from JSI to the UK have to refuel (usually at Salonika) but because we had about 30 seats empty the drivers of the Excel 737 calculated we could just about depart without a refuel stop.

Take off meant using every bit of runway, and at the marina end there's a narrow road (anyone walking along the road as the engines wind up to full power would probably be blown into the harbour!).

There seemed very little runway left when we rotated. The FO later told me on a visit to the flight deck (this was pre-9/11) that if the temperature had been one degree higher the density altitude would have made it impossible to get off without much less fuel, meaning a refuel stop would have been necessary. I guess that's what you could call a short runway, but I don't know what length it is - anyone care to comment?

This link will give you an idea of how the runway looks - short indeed! http://www.airliners.net/open.file/050989/M/

[EGCC4284]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/267220/M/

[Eckhard]

big.al,

That picture of JSI's runway brought back many happy memories of the early 90s when I used to fly 737-400s into there from BHX. You're quite right that we had to refuel at Thesaloniki on the way home, but we nearly always had a full passenger load (174).

As a matter of interest, we used to land with F.40 and use full reverse and autobrake max. Probably overdoing it a bit as we used to turn off at that second taxiway on the left, just about half way down the runway! From memory, I thnk the LDA was about 5,500ft, so that means we were turning off in under 3000ft.

On departure, we would go 'Bleeds Off' and F.15 and rotate at about the same place that we turned off!

ATB,
Eckhard

[expedite_climb]

EGCC4284 - I'd have been running mate !

[Rwy in Sight]

According the M.A.I.P for Greece the runway is 5281x98 ft the elevation goes from 8 ft at the south to 51ft at the north - slope of +0.82%

RWY in Sight

[In trim]

Lukla Airport near Mt. Everest has to be the craziest.

Built on a slope and only just paved. Landing straight into a huge lump of rock.


http://www.nepaltrek.co.uk/ph0306.htm

http://www.nepaltrek.co.uk/ph0305.htm

or

http://www.alcor.com.au/gabrield/nepal/nepal_thumbs1.htm (scroll to the bottom of page.)

[ZK-NSJ]

been in and out of lukla, boy that was fun

[In trim]

One day I hope to do the same......looks stunning!

[West Coast]

5700 ft at SNA in Southern California.