View Full Version : Are modular licences not worth the paper there're written on?
SuperTed
26th Aug 2001, 15:33
From this forum I assert that many CAP509ers find airline jobs within a matter of months of finishing their courses- mostly flying jets. There are exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking this is true!
However, saying this many modular people who have become qualified through the modular route are still looking for a job flying anything they can find. Many are not sucessful resulting in them becoming FIs and then looking for that FI job- which is not as easy as it sounds.
Why I ask you are these two routes so different in outcome. One guy flys jets, earns 30K, and the other is lucky to earn 9k flying light aircraft even though they may have the same qualifications- bar the type rating.
Don't you agree the above argument is rather like our own education system back in the 1970's.
People with degrees from proper universites back then obtained good jobs in industry. However, people who gained similar degrees in Polytechnics usually went on to find less well paid and less respected jobs even though both candidates had degrees and had been to university.
Yes there are exceptions to the above arguments, there always are, however generally speaking this is what I see!
You thoughts on the matter please gentlemen!
Wee Weasley Welshman
26th Aug 2001, 16:14
Rubbish. For every Integrated person who walks into a 757 job 3 weeks before he finished his course there are half a dozen who don't. What you often see on this forum is anecdotal evidence.
The flip side of the coin is someone - and he shall remain nameless - who did the OATS full course at a cost of some £62,000 whilst I did the old version of the modular route. After 4 months of looking for work and getting none he decides to do a FI rating. So there we were working side by side earning the same money as FI's but he spent twice as much to get there in a hurry and then had the extra burden of keeping his IR current whilst building to a 1,000+ hrs.
The differences these days in both the timescale and total costs of the modular or integrated routes are much much smaller than they used to be.
This being the case I firmly believe you will see convergence over time whereby airlines don't much care which route you took. The old distinction of Approved vs Non Approved no longer applies and the current application of such a mindset is purely a hangover on the part of the recruiters.
I have it on good authority for example that when Brymon recently advertised for either integrated cgrads or modular with 1,000hrs + they only made this requirement as a last minute decision. They had intended to ask for just the license plus a combination of exam %'s and first time flight test passes.
Only a last minute lack of bottle in being the 1st to do something different changed their minds. Which is a shame as it is eminently more sensible to tack the approach of grades/flying hours to syllabus/% exam marks/flightest pass rates than a crude hours arbiter.
Many of the more forward thinking airlines are these days just asking for the license and don't give a hoot about how you got it, e.g. the advert in Flight by Go Fly Ltd 2 weeks ago ;) :)
Good luck,
WWW
My answer is maybe a bit to philosophic and off topic, but still take a minute to read it.
The integrated course has a worth of approx. 50000£.(I'm not familiar with UK prices) And you gota pay it at the beginning or during your 1.5-year-course. (how can you afford that??)
Say the modular course has the same worth. (you need more hrs than in the integrated, but usually do it on less expensive planes).
But this expenses of 50k are spread up during 2-5 years. (easier to get the money)
Beside the mod course yout got ypur job and, if you run out of money you stop flying, safe money and have a modest lifestyle, so you don't have to take a loan. So your career runs on two lanes. And if you got a job you like, then it's not so sad if you can't find an airline job. Ok, you spent a lot of money for the ATPL, but flying is cool. And isn't that realising yourself? And there is no or less pressure of money that has to be paid back. So you're not a tragic character. You just spent all the money you earned for flying, but that's what you ever wanted to do, that's self-realisation.
That's only my personal attitude but I'm ready to spend all my money for relizing myself.
[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: 380 ]
Send Clowns
28th Aug 2001, 01:18
This is kind of out of date, as for anyone making the decision now CAP509 no longer exists!
Looking at the requirements to apply for a good first-time job, I have an application form for a job in that category that demands "CPL/IR frozen ATPL on approved, full-time CAA or JAA course". Under JAA that applies equally to integrated or maodular, provided the modular was taken full-time. The modular can be acquired for around £40,000 all-in. The integrated cannot.
Modular should be a very real option for anyone paying for their own course.
If you want anecdotal evidence in favour of modular, I have a friend who thought it would take about 4 months to get a job, after finishing his modular course 3 months ago. He left the first job he started after a couple of days to go to a better one (leasing company, not instructor!).
SuperTed
28th Aug 2001, 01:45
Send Clowns,
You mention in your post about full-time modular courses being required for the job you're applying to.
What part of the modular course needs to be full time? All of it from 0 to 200 ish hours like the 'seemless' modular courses multiflight offer for example. Or the CPL flying courses and IR etc after the ATPL exams??
Just a remark.
there is "Company requirements" and "Company requirements".
They may advertise or send a Dear John with minimum requirements that are not necessarily what they go by. I would use these informations as guideline and not as stringent requirement since I am sure we all have met people getting in with "less than what stated in Flight Int or wherever".
I always thought tha firing CVs was a good strategy and whilst rarely succesful, permitted to establish an initail contact, whlist obtaining the name of the relevant person.
As I said, the success rate is very low but certainly was high enough for me. Keep trying, knocking on doors, make yourself known,....and like in my next position (a month away) you will break in without all that. Sorr, being a bit witty but there are no rules so just fire at will!!
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