Air Atlanta Treatment of Aircrew

[Muchheavierthanair]

Has anyone else had experience of Air Atlanta's unusual personnel management methods ? A friend was hired (through an agent) in November for the Hadj, and told he'd start flying in December, after a refresher course. This changed, after the course (at short notice) to starting in mid-January, due to their training organisational problems In mid-January this was changed, just before he was due to go, to mid-February. In mid-February this was changed to: "you (and a bunch of others in the same situation) are now not going, sorry". . .. .All of this time he was effectively on stand-by to go there, and was told at one stage that he could go at a day's notice. His total pay for the four months ? $700 ($50 a day for a nominal two weeks "notice period"). (And $50 a day, rather than the contracted $175 a day, because he hadn't done the line training...which would have been done on the job during the Hadj...). .. .The whole time he was told by both AA and the agents (Direct Personnel in Dublin) that he'd be going...(and was told by the agents before the course that there would be a guaranteed three months pay during the Hadj).. .. .I understand that AA makes very good profits and is growing fast. Now I think I understand how it does it.. .. .Anyone had similar experiences ?

[ShotOne]

Why doesn't he take them to court (joke!). .. .This just highlights what bad news outfits like this with no fixed abode are from our professional point of view. Employed by an agency in Eire to fly Icelandic aircraft based goodness knows where. With any dispute, where does a pilot even start to try to seek redress?

[Ex Servant]

Welcome to the world of Air Atlanta. Everything is last minute, it's how they work. I had the 'pleasure' of working as cabin crew for them for four months in 2000. Compared to what we're used to with UK airlines they leave a lot to be desired. With the managers and trainers moving from country to country at a moments notice you will find differences with how they do things and their knowledge of how things should be done in the country they are in. I wasn't happy with several things. In fairness to them though when failures of any sort are pointed out to them they will investigate and take corrective action. However I would suggest you put everything in writing just to make sure.

[411A]

Air Atlanta has NOT changed their modus operandi since 1992....and not likely too either.... .And just where are those all-elusive servicable parts tags?

[Muchheavierthanair]

What happens to the parts tags ? And what other concerns were there ?

[Whiskery]

Air Atlanta is no different to any wet-lease specialist operator. Contracts that are offered to them some time fall through, it's a fact of life. Once on board, they are a good company to work for and are never late with the pay.. .. .I have been in the same boat, but it comes with the territory, don't like it - go work for one of the majors!

[GlueBall]

Been there done all that. Had been shorted on pay during the Hadj a long time ago, flying as F/E. It's all part of the learning curve. Today, as left seater, I wouldn't pack my bags without a Business Class roundtrip ticket and $5000 cash up front! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[18-Wheeler]

Been with them nearly two years now, and had no problems at all.

[ijp]

I had a mid December class date, and there was a snafu with my tickets,so I missed it. Sounds like I was lucky. I hear good and bad about this outfit, mostly bad. But when you need a job, you take what you can get.

[Muchheavierthanair]

Er, I think my friend's point was that he took the offer of a job, attended the refresher training, signed a contract with Direct Personnel, stopped looking for other work: and sat around for three months being told by Air Atlanta that he'd be going flying shortly. In the end he was paid $700 for the three months. So ok, you're desperate and would work for someone like Atlanta; what happened to him and others is different.

[David Hurst]

As Whiskery says, much of the problem is the wet-lease business. Contracts come and go and the problem always is whether you staff up before the contract is signed or wait until the contract is in the bag and hope you can find the people.. .Atlanta are advertising in Flight this week for 767 drivers for the summer "with a possible extension". I guess the summer is reasonably certain but there's something in the wind for the winter.. .It isn't perfect but judging by the threads here there doesn't seem to be any company that is.

[Flight Detent]

That business regarding the used parts was resolved years ago, and Air Atlanta came out of it OK following the investigation, I don't see the point in your comment, 411A. .. .Air Atlanta is what it is, it's a great place to work if you want to fly when you want to fly, if you get my drift, I've been with since mid 1998, on and off, and I'm still here!. .Cheers!

[18-Wheeler]

Quite agree, FD, the 747's I fly are all in rather well maintained condition, and I have little to complain about with the rostering and operations of the company.. .I'll be here for a long time.. .. .True enough, times were very rough & strange a few months ago, but it's all looking perhaps better than normal in the months to come.

[Ex Servant]

Have to say 411A may have a point. 18 months ago I found all the BCFs in the loos on one aircraft were out of date according to the labels. In fairness to the company they did investigate and concluded that they were OK but just had not had the labels changed. In any event they were all checked and relabelled within a few days anyway. Does raise the question though that even if AA are OK do the companies that do maintainance for them let them down on occasions?

[password]

Ex Servant..If the incident you are referring to was on the L1011 at LGW, if i recall correctly, you found ONE BCF with an out of date label, you were then back in the crew room so fast you had no time to check all of them. The company assured all the crew it was just a label error and the flight dep.. .. .Don't hype it up just to give it some clout..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />

[Ex Servant]

IFE69 Sorry but the info you were given was not quite correct. I was on the aircraft for quite some time discussing what I found. I checked every toilet BCF and found that they all had labels on them indicating that they were out of date. Bearing in mind this was what would have been classed as a higher risk flight for in flight fires due to it being a night charter flight I'm sure you will understand why I was concerned. Fair enough the MEL did say an aircraft could depart with a BCF inop as long as the smoke detector was OK. However I have personal experience of somebody blocking up a detector and smoking in a toilet (had him arrested on landing at LGW). If it had only been one toilet the chances were maybe low taking into account all of the available toilets but as it was all of them (or so I thought on the info available at the time)made it a different situation. Just two months later Virgin suffered an inflight toilet fire and the crew were not initially aware of the smoke detector fire. The fire training I've done has suggested that if a toilet fire is not attacked within two minutes that it maybe too late. As I've said before AA did have a meeting with me about what happened and did deal with the extinguishers. I did therefore return to flying and finish my contract with them. However I was not aware until I read this topic that similar questions had previously been raised about AA. The question that has always remained in my mind is how the company that did the servicing for AA could say that they had checked five bottles in different parts of the aircraft and failed to replace all of the labels. Then somebody else could have checked and signed off the work and also failed to notice the labels. We know from past experience that sometimes companies say work has been done when it hasn't. Please don't misunderstand my reasons for mentioning what I have. Yes it's true I personally wasn't happy working the AA way. However they employed me and paid me when I didn't have any other work and the people had the best of intentions. I don't even work in the industry anymore (still miss it though) and have no need to grind any axe with AA. I do still have a concern for my former colleagues and everyone flying today. I therefore feel that open honest dialogue about any safety issue regardless of the airline involved is in everyones interest. On the night involved I made a personal decision for my own safety based upon the information available to me at the time and my own personal experience. If it was wrong, well that's life but I believe in stopping before you find out too late you made the wrong decision. If others wish to take an alternative view that's their right to do so. As we all know the flight operated without incident and I hope they continue to do so.