CALM DOWN!

[liquidhockey]

Guy Guys Guys!

Everyone seems to have forgotten that this website is run for free as WWW said by busy working pilots and is an EXCELLENT source of information from all sides of aviation.

I dont know about you guys, but if i didnt have this site to turn to then the chances of my airline dream would be severly damaged.
It seems that people are attacking PPrune and what for?
The guys running this site are working men/women and could be held accountable for YOUR actions! Why should they let the risk of this happening linger on the website. They are looking out for the well being of not only themselves and their families but for the security of flying schools.

Im not saying that the flying schools should keep the fact that they are going bust from the public IF THEY ARE!
But dont attack the moderators! Understand their position before posting these topics.

Kind regards

Dave :) :) :)

[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: liquidhockey ]

[Speedbird252]

Tis done. Capt. Pprune and scroggs have dealt with this latest attack. This site is a lovely place, lets weed out these pirates and self ruled losers and send em on there way.

As scroggs said, go make your own web site and moan - www.tossers.com (http://www.tossers.com) is available.

Regards ppruners.

Speedy. :mad:

[DeeTee]

Hmm,

Having hung round here for a few years now it is alarming to see the non-wannabee nasty-isms appearing.

This is a forum for peeps who wannabe pilots and is not an axe grinding forum. To all those out there who feel their wood cutting implements need sharpening....please take it elsewhere. When I was trying to get my first job This was one of the few places I could ask my inane and stupid questions and get polite, positive responses. Lets not degrade that now.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

[hdaae]

I guess the best medicine against these attentionseekers are just to ignore them until they step over the forums boundaries and the moderators lock their threads.

[rolling circle]

Hang on a minute, let's just see how justified all this villification from the moderators of this Forum really is. Analysing the latest thread to have been locked by the Thought Police we find:

Avrodomo - "I was flicking through the threads last night when it was late and i was tired. Did i read that 4 Forces have gone bust too? I've tried to find it again but with no luck. Anyone know ????" OK, 4 Forces had gone down so no problem there.

Sensible - then offers a couple of links without mentioning any particular company, so far-so good.

TheSilverFox - then chips in confirming the 4 Forces rumour (fair comment) and continues with "but keep a close eye on a well known Bournemouth outfit!!!!!". Consulting the latest CAA list of approved training organisations at Bournemouth, that means that there is now a vague rumour that one of at least 7 organisations, not including PPSC, is suspect.

Scroggs - assuming that TSF means PPSC, sends a disparaging put-down.

TSF - makes it clear that it is not PPSC to whom he refers (still 7 candidates).

As The Prop Turns - supports TSF but widens the possibilities to "down on the South Coast".

Query - assumes that, of the 7 possible organisations, TSF is referring to SFT - why? Perhaps he's good at anagrams - or not.

Lighting ace - asks for clarification, doesn't mention any specific organisation.

Polar_stereographic - expresses concern but doesn't mention any specific organisation.

Poli - mentions PPSC (fair comment) and defends SFT - but they have been mentioned only by Query and nobody has suggested that they are in trouble.

Polar_stereographic - now seems to get the bit between his teeth and demands assurance from Poli that SFT is secure, despite the fact that their security has never been called into question.

Poli - strenuously protests SFT security, apparently showing himself, in the process, to be a member of SFT's management, "Quite honestly I would not let some one pay a deposit if I thought the company were in trouble.".

Polar_stereographic - backs off and doesn't mention any particular organisation.

Blackshirt - chips in with news of a credit check on SFT (why SFT? Still nobody has suggested that they are in trouble)

Lightning ace - brings the thread back to the top without mentioning any specific organisation.

Send Clowns (a declared SFT spokesman) - "Silver Fox, Prop Turns. If you cannot bring your points into the open, then kindly retract your hints.". why?? Neither of them has made any allusion to SFT, only, in TSF's case, to one of 7 training organisations at Bournemouth and in ATPT's case to any organisation "down on the South Coast".

Scroggs - now assumes that TSF is referring to SFT (which he isn't, necessarily) and gets on his high horse.

TheSilverFox - full of, quite justified, indignation, makes a lengthy post in which he, justifiably, mentions a number of flight training organisations that have gone under but does not mention or hint at SFT.

As The Prop Turns - posts his own defence, again without mentioning SFT.

Clive Hughes and One Mile High - chip in with some good advice for ex-PPSC students.

Scroggs - makes a reasonably well reasoned appeal, except that his supposition that "What I was getting at in my message to Silver Fox was that his speculative post about 'another Bournemouth operator' is in itself damaging, and, as he appears to be an instructor for another school, could be taken as malicious by the subject(s) of his speculation" is probably not supportable in that we are still talking about one of at least 7 approved training organisations. It's about as valid as the supposition that "I know a bent copper" is going to result in a suit for libel by PC147!

WWW - then pops up and, in trying to make his point, expands the speculation from SFT to PAT and Airbourne. Now, all of a sudden we're talking about three of the seven candidates - nice one WWW.

TSF - then defends himself once more and, again, mentions no specific organisation.

Ivan Ivanovich - has his two pennorth, without mentioning any specific organisation.

Scroggs - now starts a lengthy post about libel and slander but, in their posts, the people he is addressing have never even hinted at a specific training organisation.

Scroggs then closes the thread.

You will all, of course, draw your own conclusions. It seems to me, however, that suitably vague rumours posted on this Rumour Network by TSF and ATPT were blown up out of all proportion and directed, without cause, towards three specific training organisations not by the posters but by the moderators of this forum.

Qui custodiat custodes?

[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: rolling circle ]

[HomerSimpson]

I think what everyone is trying to say that PPRuNe is a rumour network and they should have their say. However, there are boundaries to what and how much. Remember people that what is said here can have devestating effect for various businesses around the world. Some unjust bad publicity can have serious effects and can put companies out of business overnight. If companies are treating pilots badly then post the first hand information not hearsay.

Remember PPRuNe was set up to help and guide pilots, its not here to slate people. If you want to do this, try Jet Blast just down the hall.

Please respect the moderators job. They are their to stop idiots posting slander about a company resulting in PPRuNe in court and being removed from the Net.

Homer :mad:

[i_am_back]

To Capt PPrune and Fellow PPRuner's,

I would like to apologize to the forum. I overstepped my bounds in the forum. It is not my intention to get anyone in this forum in legal trouble. If I have put anyone connected to this forum in that situation, please email me privately and I will take full responsibility.

I but myself in front of Capt PPRune, and will follow his wishes. If he would like me to pass any information I receive by him before posting, I will. Just let me know how you want to handle it.

If I make a mistake I will stand up and take my punishment as you see fit.

Sincerely,

Florida Air

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Rolling Circle - thanks for that summary; I couldn't draw enough strength to do such an analysis as the moment as I have an OPC in 24hrs...

I am not hacked off with any particular conributor and in this instance am happy to believe that all posts were made in good faith.

Shall we let it all lie now?

Cheers,

WWW

[PPRuNe Towers]

Rolling Circle's analysis only cover's one thread. We have to look at the totality and in particular dual identities being used to stoke the fires.

Now that there is definite assistance in place for those who have suffered in the events of the last few weeks we can wind down the commercial input we have allowed. This is especially true of the posts from American schools.

Rob

[Hamrah]

..an the other point is that it is not always the Moderators who decide if a "rumour" is within the bounds of the rules of this site but the company (or companies) whose name is being dragged through the mud (or more importantly, their lawyers).

As has been said many times before, in circumstances like this, supplying your real name and address would probably allow the moderators to leave your "rumour" in place and allow us to redirect the Legal stuff.

Other than that, we have to protect our backs, and the site.

[TheSilverFox]

Scroggs!

Ref: The 4Forces Thread.


At last! A reasonably ballanced posting from Scroggs.

Thats all that was required in the first place and the thread would have died a natural death!

Stop attacking people with all guns blazing!
Try to be a little more MODERATE in your views.

Lets hope that this topic can finally be put to bed.

Lets also hope that there really is no foundation in those rumours.

I for one do not wish to see any further problems within the Flight Training Industry!

I do apologise for posting on this thread, but was not able to reply on the original ( Must be doing something wrong I,m not a computer expert).

[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: TheSilverFox ]

[Polar_stereographic]

Rolling Circle,

Sorry mate, you've lost the plot with regard to my posts. I had nor have anything against any outfit nor did I seek to add to the debate.

What I was saying (not very well OK), was suggesting to Poli, that as someone who represents SFT that he'd get more respect with a less emotive reply, and achieve more with one backing up SFT with some solid facts.

I was actualy trying to help him put the fire out, not fuel it.

Now, regarding the moderater/list owners, well you have my sympathy regarding the legal issues, and I would back you up with them from a moral point of view.

Lets deal with the facts.

PS

[scroggs]

Rolling Circle's exhaustive analysis of just one thread does nicely show how general speculation can quickly become focussed on one or two organisations, raising the possibility that those organisations may be affected by speculation fomented here. As Hamrah said, and I alluded to before, there were many threads active at the same time. As a Moderator, it is my job to limit the damage both to any individuals or organisations who may be affected by unfounded speculation, and to do the same for Pprune itself.
If I offended any individual by appearing to be heavy-handed about any particular post, I'm sorry, but fire-fighting inevitably causes some collateral damage. And fire-fighting was exactly how it felt from this end.
Now, and I hope for the last time, I repeat my message: you are not at liberty, here or anywhere else, to say or imply what you like about who you like. You must accept responsibility for the consequences of your musings, and, to that end, if you feel that anything you are about to say may be more than averagely controversial, then lodge your real name and e-mail with any Moderator. Explain in as much detail as you can what causes you to complain/have a go at/start a rumour about an organisation, and then when they come shouting at us we have both a chance to defend ourselves and to point them at the evidence against them.
Now, can we get back to the every-day issues which interest the average Wannabe? I'm off to work for a rest!