Aircraft shot down in recent Yugoslavia

[Stonca]

Have been doing some research in to recent conflicts to help with my interview and was hoping that some of you guy's could help.

I found this web site:

http://members.tripod.com/IvanLucky/table.htm

Listed are all the aircraft shot down during the aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

I was very surprised to see what the table said.

I knew that a British Sea Harrier was shot down. But the only mention of a Harrier was that the pilot was captured. But to my knowledge Mr Richardson managed to evade capture.

Also, it says that an F-15 was shot down by a MiG-21, and I believed that no F-15 had ever been lost in air-to-air combat.

The number of aircraft lost is also a lot higher than what I was expecting. For instance I was totally unaware that a B-52 had been shot down!

Is this table accurate?

[Man-on-the-fence]

I havent laughed so much in years.

He'll be claiming that Saddam hasnt got any WMD next :D

[Stonca]

M-O-T-F, I have no idea what you mean't by that reply.

It was an honest enough question to help with some research, I'm a little young to remember the conflict so not sure if that many aircraft were lost or not.

[Gainesy]

Stonca,
I think that MOTF was laughing at the site you refer to, not you.
The site is a complete propoganda fabrication. I suggest a search of the Daily Telegraph news archives would suit your purpose better.
Good luck with the interview.

[MarkD]

Stonca

perhaps the reaction was coloured by your use of the phrase "aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" as opposed to the "bunch of butchers getting what was coming to them in order to drag their sorry asses to the Hague".

I'm sure that's what you meant though!

[Man-on-the-fence]

Stonca

Sorry for the confusion, Gainesy hit the nail on the head.

What really worries me is the owner of the website actually believes that tripe.

[jungly]

Shot down:

F15 - no
B52 - no
FRS1 - yes (but he wasnt captured)
French M2000 - yes
US F16 - yes (o'grady)
UN Bell 212 - yes
F117 (kosovo rather than bosnia)

Crashes:

Ukranian M-17 (crashed in fog)
Chezch M-8 (crashed on take-off, tail rotor failure)
US OH58
US Blackhawk
US Apache

Various other "out landings" as a result of single engine failures or bullet holes causing loss of fuel (technically not shot down!)

After far too much kronenburg, pivo, slivovich and kruskivatch (sp?) thats all I can remember.

[OFBSLF]

Jungly: There was also the US Air Force 737 (T43?) that crashed into a hill side on approach in weather. IIRC, it was trying to land near Dubrovnik. On board was US Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/07/brown.crash/

aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia:rolleyes: Stonca, you come to a bboard and basically accuse the folks here of "aggression" and wonder why you aren't welcomed with open arms?

As for the web site you referenced, that's just rather poorly done propaganda.

[ORAC]

I forgot how long this stretched on.

O'Grady's F-16 was shot down on the 2nd of June 95 on Op Deny Flight. They recovered the wreckage 5 years later after Allied Force. AIM-120 (http://www.af.mil/photos/May2000/20000419-a-6727a-004.html).

The losses listed above by Jungly were incurred during Operation Allied Force in 1999. These included an F-16, near Kosluk on May 1st, but it wasn't O'Grady again. :)

There were also an AV-8B on May 1st and two AH-64 Apaches, on April 26th and May 5th, but these were during training sorties so they won't count as combat losses.

An RAF C-130 (XV298) crashed during take-off near Kukes in Albania, on the 11th of June, when the load shifted. It was an operational mission.

[Stonca]

Sorry, mistake on my part. I copied the title of the web site, no offence intended to anyone.

As I'm trying to join up myself the last thing I'm trying to do is start shouting anti-war stuff around on PPrune.

As I guessed, it was inaccurate, just didn't want to get it wrong if asked questions about it in my interview.

Cheers People.


Stonca

[snafu]

Having spent the period of time described in the list flying SH in Bosnia, all I can say is that if these losses had occurred, I think we might have noticed!! Jungly's list is correct, particularly as most of the losses in Bos have been for reasons other than enemy fire.

To the best of my knowledge, there was an alleged F117 downed during the Kosovo campaign, (wreckage was shown on Serb TV) but the rest are a pure work of fiction.

At the end of the day, if the Serbs had captured 8 Germans, 1 Brit, 2 Belgians, 3 Frenchmen, a Canadian and up to 7 Americans, I think NATO might have mentioned it before now, bearing in mind that they haven't been handed back!

Good for a giggle though!

BTW Jungly, the bottle at the back of my cupboard calls itself Kruskovac, I just haven't got round to finishing it yet!

[Biggus]

ORAC

I think you will find that the RAF C-130 crash on take off had nothing to do with load shifting!!

[PLovett]

Noted the comment about the pilot of the Sea Harrier not being captured.

I believe that he was found by Bosnian Muslim forces after ejection and taken to a nearby town that was being beseiged by Serbian forces. A SAS patrol was in that town and the pilot was given into their care. However, there was some suggestion that the Bosnians were not going to let that patrol leave the town freely.

The patrol finally left the town at night and with some subterfuge and were finally able to meet up with a Norwegian (?) helicopter and taken back to base.

Perhaps a case of being "half captured"?

[jungly]

Surely you speak with forked tongue....the SAS were never in Bosnia (I saw John Major deny it on the BBC).... and if they werent there, then neither was I......and neither was SNAFU and neither were those blacked out US C130s that Clinton denied were there too. Although considering we werent there, that explains why we never got any allowances!! :p

'Kruskovac'...cant say it did the brain cells, vision or spelling very much good! Thx

Orac et al: The losses I indicated occured under UNPROFOR or IFOR/SFOR between mid 95 and mid '98. (although the B212 and 737 occurred before my time) I cant comment on others, eg: Allied Force as by then I'd replaced my combats and SA80 for a spiffing white shirt, a healthy dose of sun and a cup of tea at FL370 and some proper money/allowances.

Speaking of Noggie helicopters does anyone remember those 2 gorgeous blonde B105 pilots based in GV ...oh my word!

[rollrollroll]

As I said, I'm the one from the "bunch of butchers getting what was coming to them in order to drag their sorry asses to the Hague". Well, I couldn't resist to not to mention that.
MarkD I'm just wondering where are you from...

Maybe to see what will you do with Northern Ireland?:p
Anyway, that list is ridicolous, it was a product of imagination and best wishes.
Only two aircrafts were shot down (F-117, the proud of US air industry, in the north of YU, and F-16, near the border with Bosnia), officially.
The thruth was that our Air Defence massively shot the tactical decoys, what created the impression and even reports about shooting down. Of course, the propaganda machinery used that to raise the moral of the population and one of the products was also the list like this one. Tomahawks were shoot down in a very large number, actually, soldiers practiced shooting on them.

But the truth was also that there were some strange things happening. You may say "yes, yes, we know such stories, the friend of my friend sow that...", but... my fellow colleague was the first witness of ejecting of the crew from F-15 over the Prishtina, southern Serbian province, Kosovo. No further information available, but I have no reasons to not to believe to my colleague, he is also a pilot.
It seems completely impossible that something like that could remain hidden from the "very friendly and independent media", journalists and other bastards, but...who knows, maybe they are not too much independent and objective. There is , maybe, some more propaganda machineries in the world. There some more examples, but in any case not that much as it was stated in that list
Also some forced landings at Skopje airport (Macedonia) can maybe be proclaimed as shoot down and... bla, bla.
The fact is only this: only two aircrafts. Shame on us!
Greetings to all from tropical paradise!:cool:

[PLovett]

Jungly

Remind me. Was that the same John Major who denied having some extra-marital nookey? ;)

You would have to believe what he said, wouldn't you? :p

Incidentally, I have now read (I think at last count) 3 accounts of the rescue of the Sea Harrier pilot in memoirs, supposedly by former members of the Regiment. They claim that the SAS had been requested by Gen. Rose but they were "attached" to conventional forces.

[MadsDad]

There is also a book by the pilot (I have a copy somewhere) giving an account of the events leading up to the shooting down and of his rescue and escape.

I can't find it at the moment though so I can't tell you the title but it definitely mentioned the word 'SAS', more than once.

[MarkD]

rollroll

what are you on about?

I'm from exactly where my profile says I am [duh]. 51'51N 08'29W or thereabouts.

Northern Ireland - nothing a B52 with full weapons load wouldn't fix.

[Tbird]

I have read two accounts of the Regiment being inserted into observe enemy activity in Bosnia. The first was Lt Cdr Richardson’s book ''No Escape Zone'' and the second is by a hooligan in that patrol, but the name of his book escapes me. They entered the city posing as UN peacekeepers, but once the Serbs realised that they had let in a SAS patrol they laid an ambush and two SAS members were wounded. The commander of the patrol managed to exfil one of the wounded by chopper by means of some heavy negotiating.

Lt Cdr Richardson was handed over to the SAS patrol by the local resistance who found him after his ejection from his SHAR post unsuccessfully trying to attack a pair of T55's. The T55's were attacking the SAS patrol. Until they were introduced Lt Cdr Richardson didn't click that the FAC he talked to during the attempted attack was infact a member of a SAS patrol behind enemy lines.

Things turned for the worst for the patrol when the civilian population turned against the SAS and they decided to exfil sharpish. They were eventually picked up by a French SF Puma.

[solotk]

For the full and complete story of Allied Air losses in that area, just put "Venik" in your google search box.

Warning - Serious hilarity may ensue :)