Seaking down. (Back on topic)

[Lu Zuckerman]

A Canadian ship outbound for the Persian Gulf was forced to return to port because the Seaking helicopter assigned to the ship crashed on the flight deck due to loss of power when one engine failed. The helicopter was destroyed but the crew survived. The ship will remain in port for a week for minor repairs relating to the crash. It was not determined at this time if another Seaking would be assigned to the ship.

:sad:

[KENNYR]

They could always borrow a sea king from the UK. Once the deck has been repaired there should be no excuse for the boat not to sail.

[Lu Zuckerman]

The ship (Iroquois) will resume her journey with or without a Seaking aboard.

:O

[Hummingfrog]

Or they could always buy a Merlin (EH101)!!

[KENNYR]

Nah.....they tried that already, and failed miserably, thanks to crooked-speaking Jean. The boat should not sail without her primary self-defense weapon.

[Thomas coupling]

Lu, the Canadian's don't strictly operate Seakings???

Try again.

Any names on the pilots?

The iroquois class can/does operate 2 x helo.

[[email protected]]

I think their official title is H-124 but they are Sea Kings and very old ones at that (metal blades with BIM indicators and a 5 bladed tail rotor). Their fleet makes ours look ultra modern. They come in 2 varieties, passive or active sonar models and most of the training on them is done at CFB Shearwater in Nova Scotia.

[Thomas coupling]

CH124 Sikorsky S61's. Seakings were only ever built by Westland, UK.
I remember comparing their role limits to ours.
On the back of an RFA, the seaking limit was:
3 degrees in pitch and about 5 dgrees in roll (from memory!).
The CH124 was 10 in pitch and 20 in roll.
[They did have a steel cable holding you over the deck though....to stop you from running away:eek:
Very professional pilots.

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Thomas coupling

Agusta built commercial S-61s as well as Seakings. They also built a shorter version of the S-61 which they pitched as a commercial transport to the oil industry. It did not sell well. Meanwhile some outfit in the US and Canada did the same thing and called their shortened S-61 a Shortsky and it is doing quite well in the lumber industry.

:O

[rwm]

I also believe that Pratt and Whitney Canada built the first Canadian Sea Kings in Montreal back in the early sixteys, if you have ever read P&WC Power sold buy the training school in Montreal.

To: Dave Jackson,
I don't think Mr.Bush believes in the U.N. He is too busy telling the world how to think. Too bad He doesn't think before he speaks. Stupid Texan Zelot. Best part of him ran down Whats her name's leg.

[[email protected]]

TC, back to original thread - the CH124 is not an S61 - the S61 as I am sure you know is a good bit longer than a Sea King. The Canadian aircraft are the same size shape and spec as a Sea King and although I do not know for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if they were built by Westlands.
I have flown their CH124 and, apart from the engines, the metal MR blades and the 5 bladed TR they are identical to our Sea Kings only much much older and very tired.
I can't believe the RN didn't like the idea of being attached and then winched down onto a heaving deck in a Sea King - what a bunch of skipping homs!!!!!!:D

Crab
You make a valid point that Israel has ignored UN resolutions for years, but it's nothing to do with the Seaking dicussion.

[Heliport]

Dave Jackson's final off-topic post was: A little PPRuNing is good.
To maintain a healthy garden, it must be pruned.
The biggest problem in the world is overpopulation. At six billion and growing something must be done. I suggest that we start WWIII. Perhaps we can trim off a billion or two.
Now, where are those new 'Weapon of Mass Destruction' shears. :rolleyes:
A little PPRuNing is good. :O

PS.
What the 'H' happened? :confused: I put a couple of 'heavy duty' posts on Jet Blast and somebody just PPRuNed them. :( :O
I entirely agree pruning is sometimes necessary for the long term good, and that's what I've done here. Your posts which had nothing whatsoever to do with this topic have been pruned.
In answer to your final question, I've found out your 'heavy duty' posts on JB were pruned by the JB Mods because you started a new thread when there is already a very long thread running.
Your posts here, and the responses they understandably provoked, have been pruned because they were nothing whatsoever to do with helicopters far less the Seaking.

If anyone wishes to contribute to a discussion about US v Iraq, click here to go to the thread. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80908&referrerid=30158)

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Lu posted The Iroquois set sail with her sister ship and will share helicopter duties using the Sea king on the sister ship.

(Thank you for your efforts to keep this thread on topic - a 'first' for you on this forum I think, but no less appreciated for that! ;) )

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There's no objection to political topics on this forum provided (1) there's a reasonably sensible 'helicopter' link, and (2) that is the wish of the majority of members.

Heliport

[SASless]

In response to Crab's question.....

SASless
My fault. You've understandably responded to the last para of Crab's post which I missed and should have been deleted with all the other political posts. (Deleted now.)
I know it's very tempting - I'd love to answer your final para about the difference between Northern Ireland which (rightly or wrongly) is still part of the UK and Israel which isn't part of America, but I'll resist the temptation. ;)

To everybody:
No politics on this thread please.

[Dave Jackson]

Hi Heliport;

I agree that many of the posts had moved off topic.

But, lest anyone get the wrong impression, my post that you have quoted, started with 'the little red devel'. It was a 'tongue in cheek' posting.

____________________________

Then again.

How can you say my posts had nothing to do with the Seaking.
I was definitely seeking a response. :D :D

[Cyclic Hotline]

I read this thread some time ago, but as the topic had veered so far from the subject matter, didn't feel much inclination to reply to it.

Very sorry to see this accident happen, glad that all crewmembers escaped serious injury.

Couple of points (from the top);

The Canadian Navy do operate "Sea Kings". The name Sea King was given to the original H-3's built for the US Navy right at the start of the programme (just like there are Sea Knights and Sea Hawks). The Canadian Navy refer to their aircraft as Sea Kings as you can read for yourself on their very own website. (http://www.airforce.forces.ca/equip/equip1n_e.htm) Sea King's were built under licence or assembled by Mitsubishi, Agusta, United Aircraft of Canada (P&W) and Westland. All but 4 of the Canadian CH-124's Sea Kings were assembled entirely in Canada. Westland never had the monopoly on the name "Sea King".

Agusta did build a highly unsuccessful "short" commercial Sikorsky S61N the "AS61 Silver". Mitsubishi also assembled a couple of commercial "long" S61's. There are currently two approved modifications for shortening the commercial S61 to the same dimensions as the H-3/S-61 (A to V) series. The original was Carson Helicopters, the second Helipro.

Besides providing greater space the commercial S61L/N's were lengthened prior to production to address the serious C of G shortcomings with the aircraft in the configuration required for passengers and baggage. By lengthening the airframe, useful space and access was gained, a selling point; without the addition of ballast, not exactly a selling point. Operators of the shortened S61's later ran into the identical CG problems. Remember that the original S61's were pretty underpowered (even) compared to the latter versions, even with the limited MAUW of the day so increasing the basic airframe weight, by lengthening it, was hardly a straightforward (or popular) decision.

The CH-124 IS indeed a derivative S-61. The S61 is not limited to the commercial variants of the S61 N, L or NM but also encompasses the S61A, V and R models.

The Sikorsky Sea King, H-3 (A-H series), in it's various military guise's is the exact aircraft specified in the FAA S61A (Restricted) Type Certificate Data Sheet, by Serial Number. So a Sea King is indeed entirely an S61. The length and airframe configuration may determine the different models and the certification basis may be different, but the aircraft is none the less an S61.

The basic S61A and S61R designs were conformed and certified as Restricted Category aircraft to streamline the military procurement process (of all things). By designing and manufacturing the aircraft to a defined standard (FAA) the aircraft was able to satisfy the oversight of the (large) engineering and design departments of each branch of the military. As the aircraft was, at that time, quite revolutionary ( a twin turbine helicopter), the creation of FAA specifications and their design parallel's to the basic military flight mission ran hand in hand and simplified the entire procurement, whilst ultimately benefitting both programmes. Previous models had run into large numbers of basic design changes required to meet the engineering specifications promulgated by each specific branch of the military, increasing workload, time and cost. This was an easy solution to standardize. It also helped when selling the aircraft overseas, as it was "essentially" a commercial aircraft. Many of the foreign military models operating today are still specifically identified by their S61(-XX) build designation.

Hope I didn't bore anyone too badly? :)

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I must thank Heliport for Moderating this thread (and others I'm sure). When I saw what this topic had degenerated into I really thought that PPRuNe was going to decline to the same abyssmal level of some of the other Helicopter and Aviation sites on the 'net. I certainly appreciate that every individual here has opinions on the issues of the day, and it is not my intent to infringe upon that, but one of the great escapes in life was to come here to this forum and deal simply with helicopters and aviation.

There's a time and a place for everything if you're so inclined, but maybe we can keep this one for this helicopter stuff?