ATPL or CPL

[woodydcfc]

:confused: Hi guys and gals just a couple of quick questions for you,
1) Do I need to do my ATPL before i do my CPL if im going to be a flight instructor,I know i need my CPL before i can earn monies,but i dont know if i need the ATPL first??
2)Is it worth me carrying on to do my ATPL considering the market at the moment,i.e how many other wannabes and quailified pilots there is out there with no job and a big hole in their pockets.
I ask these questions as im knocking on the back door of 35 years young,only 100hours tt under my belt,and just come back from the u.s,where i was talking to 2 instructors 1 who had been in the airlines for 3 months before 9/11 and is now instructing with no sign of another posting,and another instructor who had had about 3 or 4 interviews before 9/11 and hundreds of letters later nothing!!Both of these people under 30,as probably so are a lot of you lot!
So what are my chances in say about 5 years time when hopefully the market has picked up and all the airlines are taking there pick from the crop,has a 40 year old never been employed by an airline before,and seriously skint geezer like me got any real chance or should i keep picking my way thru the exams and hope for the best (right time right back) sort of thing??
Sorry about going on but coming back from America and taking stock of things has put a different light on things,
anyway thanx in advance for your imput,and the kick up the arse that i probably need:)
Laters,
Woody

[wobblyprop]

woodydcfc,

To be an instructor i think you only need the CPL exams.

However, if you want to become an airline pilot you will need the ATPL exams. The material covered is more or less the same but the subjects are a little more split for exam purposes.

Thankfully, JAR theory has settled down and schools are now doing well with it. If you go down the ATPL road you have 3 years from the last exam to get your CPL and IR which will give you the frozen ATPL.

I don't have a crystal ball, but i would say that potential/inevitable war on Iraq won't help the industry and if jobs are going, right now, its "who you know" not "what you know" that'll get you a job.

[Tinstaafl]

In the UK (JAR-land?) you can instruct on a PPL as long as you've demonstrated CPL level knowledge ie passed the CPL exams.

You can earn money as a pilot - including instructing &/or single pilot ops - as long as you hold at least a CPL.

You can work as pilot on multi-crew ops as long as you've demonstrated ATPL level knowledge ie passed the ATPL exams AND completed the MCC. I refuse to use the term 'passed' for a course that isn't assessed.

The beneficial part is that ATPL passes will credit you with CPL passes for no extra study. CPL passes only give you CPL passes ie no credit towards the ATPL.

The catch is that the ATPL exams only remain current for a limited time AFTER you gain a CPL licence + IR.

Given that, you may as well sit the ATPL exams if you have ANY intention of moving beyond instructing. If not then ATPl exams may not be relevent to you.

[FlyingForFun]

Tinstaafl,

It's so rare to see something you say that just sounds wrong that I wish I had some references to hand to be able to check this. But:The catch is that the ATPL exams only remain current for a limited time AFTER you gain a CPL licence + IRThis is simply not true.

After completing the exams, you have 3 years to gain a CPL and IR. Once you've got the CPL/IR, the exams will remain valid for 7 years from the date of your last IR renewal - in other words, as long as you keep your IR current, the exams remain valid indefinitely.

Woody - do the ATPL exams. They are not much bigger than the CPL exams, there is far more choice of schools offering the course, and once you've got those exams you've then got 3 years to decide whether you want to get an IR or not.

On the other hand, if you decided to do the CPL exams now, but then changed your mind and wanted to get an IR and then an ATPL at a later date, you'd have to repeat a lot of the theory work.

Good luck,

FFF
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[Mintflavour]

took the words right out of my mouth FFF

As that is the way I am going

[MaximumPete]

I agree with all the others. Go for the ATPL exams.

In the (good) old days you were not allowed to sit the ATPL exams until you had flown the required hours and sent your log books to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, later Dept of Trade, to be scrutinised.

I found it VERY hard work returning to college, fortunately on paid leave, for two months to pass exams which were not too advanced from the CPL exams completed five years earlier.

Good luck with your job hunting

MP

[Tinstaafl]

FFF,

Quite right. I was lax in my wording and didn't specify the conditions with regard to the validity periods. I should have been more specific.

The crux is still correct however. There IS a limited period of validity, both for original licence issue and also to retain credits.

[woodydcfc]

;) Cheers Guys,
really appreciate the advice and its duly noted,i will probably go with the ATPL course first,and then the CPL&IR then the flight instructors course,thats if the wife says so:O
Cheers anyway,
Woody:)