UAS Pay

[kennedy2]

Hi everyone, just a quick question. Why is it that the UAS dont get much pay, when the OTC get pay for every time they attend. Surely it would be a better idea to pay UAS cadets so that they can concentrate on studies and EFT rather than putting paid work on top of all that as an extra, more profitable and urgent consideration?

What are your views?

[idle stop]

Pay? For the best flying training in the world? Don't you do it 'cos you just don't want to do anything else?
Quite fair to give the OTC a bit of pocket money for digging their own bivvy holes. Don't you think?
I was a UAS student in the....well, a long time ago now. We, the humble RAFVR chaps, got a bit of subsistence and our home-to duty travel, which subbed the odd pint, but not much more. Of course, the University Cadets (APOs) got a special rate of pay which was a bit more generous, I recall, than those of us existing on the standard 'grant' from local authority (made up by your parents if you were lucky.)
Grit your teeth, don't whinge, enjoy the flying and use it as a springboard into military or civil professional flying. You may get less than your OTC colleagues now, but you have the potential to reap more than just good money in the future, but the chance of doing a job you may really enjoy.

[kennedy2]

My only problem is that I'm ground branch. So I dont get the flying!

[prang one]

Its been a a little while since I was in the UAS .But what a damned good time was had by all!!!

As said above its all about the flying (and what follows later ).But as you pointed out your GB.
I remember having my own car and getting a few of the boys and girls in there to, earned me a little exta cash when it came to claim forms time.
Out side of that if its the money your after join the Navy or the OTC instead.Its a pilots RAF anyway!!!Or it was when I left:cool:

[Mr C Hinecap]

AAAARRGGHHHHH!!! :mad: :mad:

As a Blunty here - with no degree - Step AWAY from the UAS. It is - still - more a flying & drinking club for the Aircrew. It is a little more justified than it used to be, but not for us bottom feeders.

I have a few pals who did the OTC thing and it has to have more value to non-aircrew. You should learn a lot more about many things other than small aircraft and going up diddly up up that will help you in ANY chosen future you might have.

There - £0.02 worth.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well as someone who is both a) Blunt, and b) Never been in a UAS, I for one welcome your insight Mr C.

WWW:rolleyes:

[Spacer]

Kennedy2, don't I know you?!!:p

[Mr C Hinecap]

WWW - But I'm not wrong!

[Tonkenna]

The UAS is certainly not just a flying club. It may well have been seen that way a few years ago, but it is now the only place that a prospective pilot can do his/her basic flying training whether they are a graduate or a direct entry pilot straight from school.

Sadly, the UAS gets very, very little funding for its ground branch members, even though (IMHO) they are vital. The UAS does not get any credit for any ground branch members that subsequently join up either. However, it is an excellent way to see if the RAF is for you, have a great time and go flying (even for groundies). So if you want a bit extra cash at uni by all means join the OTC and learn to dig ditches and get cold and wet, or you could stay with your mates in the UAS.

Tonks ;)

[kennedy2]

Hiya,

Yeah Spacer, I think you do!

Anyway, I was just wondering if there is anybody considering this problem as well - my bank certainly is!

[Ralf Wiggum]

Having recently paid a visit to our local UAS, you certainly get many benefits from such a Unit Kennedy2. I was amazed at how well UAS students do, ground or aircrew.

As has been said, the experience you get is worth as much as the OTC pay and while all you colleagues at Uni are stuck trying to work out what to do in their hols, you have opportunities at a fantastically reduced price to see something of the world. If you don't, then your UAS is cheating you.

Make the most of what you have and look forward to reaping the benefits in the long term.

[kbf1]

I don't know if the comments about the OTC are banter or a blinkered view of what the OTC does by RAF types who don't understand what it is there for (difficult to tell out of context). It pays roughly £30 per day plus college to place of duty allowance with a bounty of about £250 per year. It isn't all about digging ditches as you spend about 50% of your time doing special-to-arm training after you complete MTQ1 (basic soldier training). Depending on the size of the OTC you will have the choice of RSigs, RLC, RArty, RE, REME, Cav, or Inf sub units to choose from. Many of the functions of the Combat Service Support elements will have a cross-function with other services (e.g RLC does a similar role to AD/Movements) that provide training which will be useful in a GB role in the RAF. Not to mention the MTQ2 syllabus which focusses on leadership and the ability to take a command appointment in your 3rd year which develops leadership skills. You also get to see the all-arms battle in the final phase of annual camp as the sub-units take on their roles against an enemy.

My advice, if you want to be aircrew and are going that way anyway, UAS is a good bet, if you are heading for a ground branch and aren't that hung up about spending 3 years away from the RAF and want to broaden your horizons a bit then the OTC probably has a lot more to offer.

[witchdoctor]

Buy a cheap car (old minis are ideal) and claim lots of mileage. I made a fortune out of mine (scandalous) and what with the FREE flying and some of the cheapest beer in Britain I didn't need to be paid!

Go NUAS!

[Bad company]

All interesting comments, however, a lttle bird tells me that UAS pay is under review, so it may be that GB will get some more pay.
Notwithstanding the above, if pay is a major factor in your decision to join either the OTC or the UAS then perhaps you aren't really the type of person either organisation is looking for?

[The mother alligator]

Agreed. I'm looking to join YUAS next year, while reading Physics at York. I have done a lot of research, and the pay doesn't seem that bad, or does it differ from aircrew to groundcrew? I thought that it was the same. Certainly save me from getting a job after working out all my budget for uni. To be honest, I can't wait to get there, certainly seems like my cup 'o tea!

[noprobs]

You'll find that attendance pay for members of university military units is actually set centrally, ie the same for all 3 services. There is a daily rate, which can be paid in fractions (a training night = a quarter day, an afternoon's flying = half a day, summer camp paid in full days etc). That rate is about £32 a day. On top of this, you get an annual bounty on completion of a full year's training, £120 for the first year, £140 for the second and £170 for the third. All of this is taxable.

The problem in recent years has been in-year funding, so that while OTCs and URNUs may have been able to be generous in allowing time (and therefore money) for training, UASs have had to prioritise where the money goes, and flying has won, thus limiting days of attendance pay. There has to be a cap on individual entitlement, but there should be enough to pay for all the necessary attendance (compulsory camp, training nights and flying training).

You won't get rich on this, but for the aviators, just bear in mind that the other end of the training scale is ATPL training at Kidlington, where the first requirement for entry is a cheque for £70K to pay for the course!

As to the difference between branches, all get the same rate of daily attendance pay, though student pilots will need to attend more. Conversely, if you are sponsored, ground branches get more; for instance, an engineer bursar gets £4K a year, whereas a pilot gets only £1K a year.

[SunderlandMatt]

I was in a UAS whilst at Uni. It was pretty good fun. While I was there we did bitch ever now and again about the below national wage limit, but then we'd go out for an hour of GH. :cool:

I walked away from the UAS after completing EFT with over 120 hours. And all this was free. In all fairness, we are getting alot more training (more expensive at least) than the OTC. So complaining about pay is just greedy. :}

Take as much as you can from the UAS, ask for a sevice discount book to see what you're missing out on. You can save money on almost anything! So you don't really need to get paid more now do you! ;)

[bayete]

Quote...."Its been a little while since I was in the UAS .But what a damned good time was had by all!!!"

Beware thing have changed, I was never one a UAS however things are different now and there are few who can afford to treat it as a social club with some excellent flying thrown in.
It still can be good fun but for most it is EFT and they will be streamed after their UAS flying. How would the UAS pilots 5-10 years ago have thought if that was the case?

5min until England beat Italy so must go.

[Airbedane]

I joined the RAF as a University Cadet and therefore spent three years on a UAS, and paid.

Yes, it was great fun; yes, we got paid a good wage, yes, we learned to fly at the same time as gaining a degree, but we all worked mighty hard to achieve the standards. And we had the choice to do it or not.

Looking for pay at UAS is not a whinge. Keep fighting for it, in the end, the RAF will get more out of you than you will of them.

A

[BEagle]

Things have changed mightily at UASs since I was a student - but even more so since I was a UAS QFI 12 years or so ago.

When I was a UAS student in the mid 70s, most of us were APOs. We were paid around £15K p.a. in today's terms; in 4 years I flew 140 hours of which 50 were solo. Most of us had 2-3 year old sports cars by the time we got into the 3rd year. We weren't streamed at the end of the course; we didn't even have to pass PFB and PIFG before Cranwell. (Having been a UAS student, you did a 125 hr Jet Provost Wings course, not a 140 hour course.)

But now there are no APO pilots, most students are pretty hard up, they are streamed at the end of their time - and I suspect that not many get 150 hours.... Chums - I think that's a pretty tough existence and it doesn't surprise me that some consider a little financial assistance to be not unreasonable.

And is it true that there aren't any Summer Camps away from home base any more?

[Duncan McCoughina]

Beags

I totally agree with your sentiments. I was in the UAS fairly recently and indeed one of the first to enjoy the new system of EFT at UAS and that's yer lot. From the way people spoke at the time the UAS's have changed markedly. The UAS is now EFT for the RAF and hence it is a very serious business for the flyers, no longer is it a case of rock up, go to the bar for a few ales and then take a kite for a jolly. Perform there because marks count.

I even had the pleasure of returning to my UAS to finish off the course after 6 months of bottom felching at Cranwell, the pressure was considerable but still an enormous relief after IOT.

With regard to the comments made by others regarding UAS vs OTC vs URNU, I think I can comment. I did a year in the URNU which was extremely good fun indeed, going all over Europe on a boat containing and run by 20 Studes, all on £30 a day, and I would recommend it if money is the most serious concern.

With regard to the OTC, hmm......possibly not the choice for someone who is not absolutely and totally committed to an Army career. The comments made about digging holes and running miles carrying bergens and rifles are justified. It was no fun at all, to put it in perspective allow me to talk you through a weekend with each Service.

Army.

Pitch up at THQ, get changed into greens, get issued rifle. On bus to STANTA (Norfolk Trg Area). Off nice warm bus into desolate waste land. March 5 miles with kit, arrive at platoon harbour setup bivvies, lie in mud until 30 mins after sunset, get 2 hrs sleep, get woken up to stag on, stag off after an hour back to pit for 1 hrs sleep. Get up eat rat pack if can be ar$ed, lie in mud until sun comes up. Walk another 5 miles, fire off 20 blank rounds while crawling through mud. Repeat, and then return to THQ to clean weapons sort kit etc. Between each event include standing in a squad with kit on for average 10 mins. It was not fun.

Navy.

Pitch up at train station with rail warrant, get train of your choosing to Pompey. Throw kit on boat, go to pub, those not planning next days passage (er ...um...missus), return to boat when pubs chuck out. Get up, slip the boat and head out to sea, people alternately running nav, steering, OOWing, (and sunbathing, reading on the back deck). Arrive at new port eg Poole, Brighton, Caen, Amsterdam etc, put boat to bed. Then to pub/restaurant to spend that pay. Invariably the boat docks at very nice marinas, hamble, QAB (Plymouth), Brighton so pubs etc are generally good, and allows the URNU stude to pretend to be a rich Yatchy. Like being a short range ASCOTeer.

Air Force.

Pitch up at base, car or train normally, find room in mess, get changed into suit, go to bar. Return from bar to do last minute prep for trip, books, maps etc. Breakfast in mess then over to met brief, check out program and retire to crewroom where entertainment is found or created. Those with serious trips will be found in planning room, those without will be found on phone negotiating with stn workshops how much beer is required to get them to make us a new BBQ, PIGZ board etc. Fly trip, land, debrief, if it's a test or first solo then to the bar where a sqn whip round will pay for a pint glass half full of assorted spirits and topped up with guiness, wine and pork scratchings for the successful individual. Find kebab wagon in OM's car park, retire to bed, repeat. With certain understanding from staff if it was an important test and your absence is noted at met brief. Genrally good fun, but at the risk of cliche, very much work hard play hard.

Hope it helps, in conclusion

Top UAS Good fun and a good job to keep
Middle URNU Good fun but wouldn't want to do it as a job
Bottom (by a long way) OTC neither good fun nor a good career (IMHO)

All the Best

Dunc

[prang one]

As I finished my last year on UAS streaming was introduced .

This affected a number of gifted pilots who at the very least were not able to produce 100% results while involved in the usuall activities of trying to get a degree and ripping it up in the mess.
Hell we did not know that was going to happen when we started.

All I can say was I made it to BFTS and onward with the only change in life style not having to go to uni.
OHH and GO NUAS

[Spacer]

BEagle: I can only comment on a certain UAS in Scotland, but we last had a summer camp away from home in 2001. I'm not sure about any other UASs, but we were at home last year, and this year is looking the same. On the negative side, the old excuse of "I don't know the area, Sir" won't quite cut the mustard now :ok: