Stop the Bullsh1t

[Wave Drag Jones]

Can anyone tell me the reason airline recruitment people spout complete lies when enquiries are made about their employment plans.

OK maybe complete lies is harsh, but they certainly say the first thing that comes to their head. No plans until late '03, near future etc. then I hear they have taken people on who happened to be in the right place right time! ie Old boys network.

Now I understand they don't want to be swamped which they would be if they advertised but if they want to recruit people quietly what is wrong with saying to me "send in your CV and we'll have a look at it". If I am actually speaking to the recruitment person I don't know how they have the nerve to just lie!

Surely just using the old boy network to employ people means airlines miss out on some of the best non-connected pilots.

I'm not just talking about jet jobs either I have had the same treatment from the small companies also, air taxi etc.

I know this is just another rant by an unsuccessful wannabe but it really irritates me that people are ignoring good pilots just to avoid hassle.:(

[touch&go]

Who said life was fair

[Cricketer]

My Mum amongst other people.

Perhaps this is just as good as it gets!

[carbonfibre]

Well i cant comment as yet cos i only have the CPL but when i have the IR and can really start applying i am dreading it, and expect to have a few years of what you are going through.

I can only say be patient and keep plugging at it, keep showing your face so they remember you, you may become one of the ole boys network then who knows?

Sad way for the industry to be, but there we go

Maybe see you on the circuit in a few months or so :O

[BoeingMEL]

Having spent as much time in the pointy end as on pilot selection and recruitment I would like to respond to these postings as follows: 1 Because of resignations, dismissals, promotions, failed medicals, new route approvals and a dozen other reasons, it VERY OFTEN HAPPENS that an airline which genuinely sees no imminent need for addional aircrew today may need several next Monday. 2 Recruiters will rarely, if ever, disclose the the true nature of their existing or future requirements because this is a tight-knit community with a spectacular grapevine.... a discreet whisper today can result in many dozens or hundreds of unwelcome latters, faxes, phone-calls and personal callers.
3 Very regrettably, pilot candidates (despite otherwise being intelligent young people) do not seem to understand simple criteria such as " applications from type-rated pilots only" or "applications by post only" or "minimum 1500 hours total experience only". For instance, one of my former emplyer's ads stipulated "absolutely postal applications ONLY" Why the did we receive upwards of 40 personal callers, 80+ telephone calls and over 100 faxes? Initiative and resoursefulness are fine qualities but being able to understand and follow simple instructions is far more important! Good luck to you all. BM

[Jetdriver]

Why don't you send your C.V in anyway it is probably cheaper than the phone call. I have said this before but airlines are often looking to fill whatever vacancies they have with the best and most experienced people they can get. Sometimes a recommendation from someone within the company is helpful but it is the interview that will be normally be the deciding factor.

Airlines like any business modify and change their plans often at very short notice. Being in the right place at the right time is very often the way most people are recruited. Most airlines do not have dedicated recruitment departments and any recruitment falls as an added burden onto people with other full time commitments. It is not unreasonable to accept that these people will not have the time to field phone calls from individuals be they speculative or otherwise. Nor is it required that a company divulges any of its commercial plans concerning recruitment or anything else in response to cold calls from the general public.

I seriously doubt that companies are dreaming up "lies" just to irritate you. In fact if they are telling you anything at all it is indicitive of just how polite the recipiant is being in dealing with your presumably unsolicited request. I suggest you write to everybody you consider a likely target with a concise CV and short covering letter. Use these forums and whatever contacts you may have to keep your ear to the ground. If you hear or suspect that a company may be receptive to a discreet phone enquiry then call them. If it turns out they are not then don't accuse them of "lying". Remember those of us in the business already, got there by using the resources available to us. You stand as much chance of success by doing the same. Wringing your hands and complaining how unfair the world is is up to you but frankly it is uninteresting and not likely to result in very much for you.

[Wave Drag Jones]

Jetdriver,

As a whinging wannabe I'm sure you can imagine I have tried many ways to get my name around, including sending grapeshot CVs to everyone! The phone calls I was referring to were follow ups.

Yes I appreciate these people are very busy and I am grateful to have got through to them at all, and yes I understand they probably don't know themselves from one week to the next what they need. It just seemed to me on a few occasions people have been taken on in a very short space of time from when I had spoken to them.

Apologies for the uninteresting hand wringing but I thought the wannabes section had been missing a good moan!;)

[Go-Around]

WDJ, check yours PMs.

[slugman]

Not sure what the moan is here. Pilots will be taken on for a great number of reasons, not all of them relevant to flying. I am not advocating skipping the queue because you know Mr X Y Z, but it happens in all professional industries and ( contentious point coming ) is to an extent is done for a reason. Think of all the jobs you have had in the past, why did you get them ? I’m sure everybody would like to think that they were the most qualified for the job - but come on, is that always true ? Have you got on well with a potential employer from the start, does one of your friends work somewhere and can help your C.V ?

For example if Mr X needs two new recruits which he must get right and minimise risk, he will take recommendations from people he knows/ trusts as to who to fill the job. If you are a known quantity and have the qualifications needed then you are in a better position. I don’t like it anymore that the next person, but I have seen it in operation (not in aviation ) and there is little you can do about it.

But don’t get me wrong - I can image that after all the blood, sweat and tears of funding, training, gaining experience etc that for some one to walk into a job taking a ‘short cut’ is gutting. But if you were that person would you say no to that job ?

I do admit that I am at the beginning of my training and have little experience of the aviation job market. If my post is way off then shout me down, but it doesn’t seem that different to any other industry.


Slug
:=

[scroggs]

I think that this just highlights the fact that there's a lot of luck involved, particularly when recruiting is slow and sporadic, as now. Most airline recruiting 'departments' (one bod in his/her spare time) are rarely looking for more than a handful of people, yet their in-trays have hundreds of CVs in them! Whether it's fair or not, is it any wonder if the lucky ones are those at the top of the pile?

Once an ops dept has decided it needs, say, 6 new pilots, the 'recruiting dept' (that single bod, remember) will arrange to interview, say, 15 pilots whose CVs suggest that they are qualified for the job. There may well be 500 qualified applicants in the pile, but no airline is going to interview 500 to select 6! This costs money! Don't forget that for these interviews, the 'recruiting dept' (one person, don't forget, with other jobs as well) will have to co-ordinate the candidates, the interviewers and the paperwork, arrange accommodation perhaps, organise exams, and all sorts of other details that you're probably not interested in. This is not going to happen any more than it has to!

As for your bizarre suggestion that a free-for-all would force down pilots salaries, Peter Davidson, how do you work that out? The airlines are already well aware that they are in a buyer's market, and don't need to interview hundreds of candidates to prove it. Most airlines' terms and conditions are a very complex agreement with the airline Crew Committee, or Union representatives, and will not be changed by a number of individuals offering to work for less than the agreed rates. In fact, those individuals could well find themselves ostracized by the entire industry, both employees and employers! No-one likes a prostitute.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

[Pilot Pete]

Go-Around,

If you feel that strongly perhaps you should strike each potential employer who lies to you 'blatantly' off your potential employers list. That may make you feel much better. Remember, they owe you nothing before you work for them and courtesy, although desireable, is not everyone's forte. Do also remember that some office staff are just being 'efficient' under a heavy workload. I recall attempting to get my first airline job with jmc and I spent months trying to get through to the Chief Pilot but his admin asst. was like the ice maiden. Eventually I did get in and she was very similar on my induction day, but, once I saw the workload she was under I could understand how the daily phone calls from newbie pilots must have been tedious in the extreme.

Well said Scroggs, Peter Davidson you obviously have a very simplistic view of how airlines work, if you are a wannabe can I suggest you start researching the market a little more to get a grasp of the basics?

Job competition is fierce in many industries and believe me you will be dealt with a lot worse by many others. If you are whining now you are unlikely to be what an airline wants so think hard, take the knocks on the chin, for there will be many and if you can't handle it then go find an easier career to get into.

As ever, good luck Wannabes.

PP

[Hamrah]

I get to speak about this a lot at seminars.

If you send an un-solicited CV, do not expect replies, and do NOT follow up with phone calls. There is seldom a "department" at the other end of all this.

I recently had the same CV sent to every member of my board, every one of my senior managers, and had 4 telephone calls to check receipt with 48 hours of posting. I'm afraid this candidate fell into my " bloody inconsiderate" category.

I'm afraid it's a thin line between enthusiasm and being a nuisance...try your best to stay on the right side.

H

[Danny]

Don't know if it's any consolation but I have copies of rejection letters from every airline I have had the pleasure of eventually working for. Just goes to show that "no thank you" one day can become "yes please" on another.:bored:

[Mister Geezer]

Danny

Mmm by looking at your above comment that means that Hamrah showed you the door when you applied to AEU? Was it a bottle of Bushmills that did the trick? :D

[Hamrah]

Whoops ! :)

get out of that one , Dan !

H