JAR type approval information

[williamsf1]

G'day,

I am trying to find any CAA or JAR information on the types of aircraft recognised by the JAR for the purpose of gaining a credit for the ME/CIR via a check flight with the appropriate TRE....

I understand it has to be an "approved" multi crew AC...etc... any list somewhere??

I have done soooo many searches for this info, so any direct knowledge or link to this would be great!

also what are the rules regarding an "instant" JAR ATPL for heavy metal time? i.e. how many hours? and types or wieght requirements???

thanks!!!

[redsnail]

Read GID 25 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_gid25.pdf) pages 4 & 5 carefully. You'll find that you need 1500 hour PIC on a/c greater than 30t to get the speedy conversion.

For the aircraft types, I found them 2 years ago in the JAA (http://www.jaa.nl/) website. Warning, it is a long search that one.

william,
I have a document in my paw from the CAA that is 18 months old. For some reason they don't publish it online. Ring or email and ask for "Organisations conducting CAA and JAR-FCL approved courses of flight and ground training".

Note, you have to know what is acceptable to them for multi pilot. You could email them with your types and ask. Best to get it from them than from here.

I have found that if you more or less know the reg's and requirements then they can confirm your plan.

You could send them your log book :eek: and 70 pounds :* and let them tell you in writing what you need to do.

[BillieBob]

For the aircraft types, I found them 2 years ago in the JAA website. Warning, it is a long search that one. Not really - three clicks from the home page take you Here (http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/40/91/409195/409195.pdf) and the list of multi-pilot types is on pages 93-98
I have a document in my paw from the CAA that is 18 months old. For some reason they don't publish it online. Yes they do, and have done for years - it's Here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf)

[redsnail]

I stand corrected. :D

All the info is there.

[williamsf1]

hey reddo where is that bit about the metro 23 being approved?

I cant find the blighter!!!...lol

damn CAA make just finding info harder than the testing I think!!

[redsnail]

I could have been wrong but as far as I understood it being a FAR/JAR 23 aircraft then it was ok. It was when I was researching this about 2 years ago.
I noted the JAA document lists the Metro's in the single pilot category. Not knowing the details of the Metro's official numbers I couldn't tell what was what.

Your message box is chockers, clear all the messages out. If you don't uncheck things, a copy is stored. Clear them out. ;)

Using one of the links that Billiebob provided, I would contact Air Atlantic and see what they have to say. They are a TRTO and they should be able to advise accordingly.

Remember, what was ok 2 years ago may not be these days. Hence it is vital that you get the up to date info and don't rely just what some PPRuNer says.

If no joy, I would contact the CAA again and quote the documents you have used to get your info. Then ask your specific questions.

[williamsf1]

Reddo,

Yep, emailed the Air Atlantic operation, and basically asked the things you told me to ask... and have also done the same with the CAA, and waiting for a response.

well all metro 3 and 23 are SA227 somethings... i.e. DC AC etc, all being slightly different types, so I will be interested to know which one or more are accepted, if any!!

otherwise, would you say the Shed is cheaper than the initial IR?

did your DASH time count? or not enough hours?

billiebob, you must be a guru to have known all those locations!!

any others that have gone down this path, please post what you did regarding either conversion or testing.... as I am sure there are plenty wanting to know about this type of thing!!

thanks!!

[redsnail]

Ok,
You don't need to do a full Initial IR any more. Details are on the CAA's website. You can do a minimum of 15 hours to convert your IR.
That however, will give you a JAR CPL with ATPL credits.
If you do a type rating, you will get a JAR ATPL with a multi pilot IR only.
Is the Shed cheaper than the abridged IR?
No.

The CAA made me do lim panel, stalls, steep turns as well as a couple of ILS's and an NDB. (plus holds, plus various other bits and pieces). This increased the cost of the Shed rating considerably.
The CAA seem to put emphasis on different areas (compared to CASA). You may not have busted any minima's or tracking tolerances but you may still get fail items on an IR because you didn't maintain your nominated speeds, fail to do the checklist when they think you should have. Get very good advice and preparation for that check.

[williamsf1]

well I am getting more and more confused, the more I find out!!
I guess that is the CAA's aim is to baffle till they give up, then keep more jobs for the good ol' boys....

so here is another "dumb aussie's" question....

lets say the metroliner, either 23 or 3 heavy, isnt the right stuff for the CAA.
If I then happened to gain an endorsement in a CAA approved aircraft for 2 crew ops, (as found from the list billebob has provided), would that mean I need 500 hours in that aircraft to qualify for the type check?

or

does it simply mean I need to do the check in that type in the UK with the CAA TRE dude?

the reason I ask this, is Reddo I assume you did the shed type endorsement and TRE check?( and not having flown it before .... I am guessing?)

anyone else willing to throw their 10 cents ( or pence..lol) in to help me and many other dumb-arsed aussie pilots!!

[redsnail]

In a nutshell,
If you have 500 hours on a multi pilot (eg, Shorts 360, Dash 8, 737) aeroplane then you don't have to do the groundschool or the training to do the check. You just have to do the check with a TRE and a CAA examiner.
If you have 500 hours (or more) in multi crew operations but NOT ON a multi pilot aeroplane. (Eg, time is on a Bandit) then you have to do a Type rating course with a TRTO, then do the check with a TRE and a CAA examiner.
You don't need 500 hours on it IF you do a TRTO course.

My Dash hours contributed to my over all multi crew time but since I didn't have 500 hours on it, I would have had to do a full type rating. I think about 15-17K.

Please note the difference between multi crew and multi pilot.

[BritishGuy]

Ok, while we're at it. Sorry if it's a stupid one, but is the Beech 1900D aircraft classified as a 2-crew a/c under JAR? It is being flown in an airline environment. b

[williamsf1]

Britishguy,

As I read it,( on page 99 I think of the link above) the 1900D is called a single pilot A/C.... I have no idea why, the only single pilot stuff it could do is freight, its seems the same for the metro 23 too... but I am waiting for the goss from the CAA....

thanks for the clarification on the 2 different types of hours you can have Reddo....

I now have a grasp of what they are requiring!!

it just seems like a way to make more money for the boys in the UK, even if you have time on the type, like you... on the DASH8

thanks

[redsnail]

Williamsf1,
Now you are getting confused between what the manufacturer deems necessary to operate the aircraft and what the legislators deem necessary.
If the manufacturers say "1 pilot" then the aircraft is a single pilot aircraft.