Liar Liar Pants Are On Fire!

[trucky04]

To lie or not to lie, that is the question. Im a CPL/IR holder who like all the others, not doing any flying jobs. Im hoping to have an interview with an airline soon for a job in operations. Im hoping to use this as a back door method to fly for the airline eventually. Thing is, if i tell them my intentions, they may say "sorry we cant give a person a job if their mind and ambitions are elsewhere!" Do i play the flying thing down, be HONEST and risk losing the opportunity or do i lie and tell them that basically i'm using them as a stepping stone? Is honesty the best policy when it sometimes can cost you NOT finding the end of your rainbow?

[justforfun]

I'd play it down if I were you... I know in the past I've generally avoided taking on pilots, as I want people who want the Ops job, not people who are gonna disappear first sniff of a flying job... good luck to you though, and I wish you all the success in your flying career as its obviously what you want to do!
Me?... I'm in Ops 'cos its what I want to do for a career ;)

Good luck whatever happens - there're a lot of experienced Ops guys out there, out of work too - competition'll be stiff I'm afraid!!

JFF

:suspect:

[AndyDRHuddleston]

I would play it by ear in the interview!

When I had my interview for ops asst position, I did a did a bit of research and found out that the ops manager was infact a training captain - so he would have a better understanding than most as to how hard it is to become a pilot.

....it worked for me, just by explaining it was a stepping stone, and there is now even a chance of a rating/job if I wait for the next pilot shortfall:D

[The Grooover]

Trucky,

I would tend to agree with what Andy has to say on the subject, but there are a lot of folks out there who have got a flying job through the ops route, in fact as I have said on these pages before some of the best ops bods I have worked with are now (unfortunately !!!) flying.

If I can be constructive and chip in my 2p's worth (based on experience) if you are serious, you MUST convey the conviction that whilst in Ops, you are an Ops bod first, and a pilot second. I cannot emphasise this enough.

Many Ops Managers will take on someone in your position, especially some of the smaller regionals and GA companies, where 2 or 3 years loyalty in ops, being brutally realistic is about all you can expect from anyone, regardless of their ambitions these days.

In such an environment you are very likely to come into contact with the Chief Pilot / Ops Director on a daily basis, but at the end of the day he/she couldn't give a damm how good a pilot you are when you are on your ops shift. However given time, if you are good at the job, they will start to trust you and that is when you are in strong position to progress, but be prepared to be patient it can take years, not months to gain trust and respect from guys who can normally sniff a rat at 20 paces.

I have witnessed at first hand guys who after 3 months were banging the FOD's door down when a recruitment drive was on, suffice to say they were despatched back to P45 land quick sharp, and everyone looses out

Be prepared for knock backs though, as I know some Ops Managers who will not even interview you if they know of your ambitions, but take interview as it comes and change the script slightly for each occasion !!!

Good luck I am sure the competition has never been so stiff, and if you are lucky, just don't piss on your ops mates 5 years down the line !!!!!



TG
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[trucky04]

hhmmm. looks like i'll be chewing over this one for some time. "It could take years" you say?! The current state of international affairs - i could be stuck without flying job anyway for years but hopefully not. Dont you Op's people sometimes get a little annoyed with wannabee pilots nestling in on your jobs who perhaps dont really want to be there? Is there any truth in thinking doing jobs like yours will improve a pilots chances?

[VIKING9]

No disrespect to any wannabees but all that happens is that Ops loses stability. You get someone trained up then they go to do what they REALLY want to do and the whole process starts again. Plus the fact, it's an opportunity for the head honchos to not pay a decent salary. It happens believe me. It's time once again for the management to maybe realise that stability and dedication are the key word in Ops. Without that, thousands and thousands of £/$ will be lost.........

:*

[The Grooover]

Unfortunately for you trucky, I think it would take years if you wanted to progress with the same company, after all recruitment is not only a costly business, but in the world of ops a very time consuming one also.

No airline or company for that matter enjoys constantly advertising for staff, as it can often incorrectly look as if that company has a high turnover of staff, which in turn puts others off applying and a vicious circle starts to appear for the company concerned. Numerous adverts in flight in a year will guarantee a debate on these here pages about the merits of said company.

I think Viking9's comments are pretty much on the money, and are justifiably what most skilled, experienced tradespeople who take a pride in what they do, because lets make no bones about it ops and crewing is a skilled trade, would feel.

I am not sure what your plans are, but don't go into it if you are half hearted, as in the minutely small world of aviation you never know when those you shaft will turn up when you least want it !

All the best

TG

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[Fly_146]

If you get the interview then this issue will of course come up, BUT the fact that you got an interview should show its not such a big issue with the airline concerned.

Some airline management won't even give your cv a looking for an ops job being a pilot, others will.

Before the question is even raised, make a case for yourself that you want to do more in the industry and company in question than just eventually fly planes. Give yourself something to fall back on when it does come up.

Viking9: I think you have a very valid point but maybe being a bit harsh. From my experience gonnabe pilots are more motivated, accurate, knowledgeable and interested in the job than your average ops guy/gal. And, once they do get onto the flt deck (perhaps with the same company), will have a better understanding and appreciation for your job.

[trucky04]

yeah you've all made some good points here but...... Wouldnt you say its true that many people in many other types of jobs would ather be elsewhere? I know i'd do a good job whatever job i do (and ive done some pretty mundane ones too!) and its is my SECOND choices of occupation. Lets face it, we could be talking a couple of years doing it until my other prospects improve. I guess anyone would be irritated if their work was disrupted & increased by staff leaving but people leave for all sorts of reasons anyway. EVERYBODY....Close your eyes for a minute and think of your dream job. .....wouldnt you quit Ops etc IF you could make your dreams come true??

[Sean Dillon]

What about JB007 .....I believe he works in Ops/Crewing and holds an ATPL...

Any comments JB ?

[VIKING9]

....my dream job doesn't involve aircraft. Just a pure white beach and the warm ocean :rolleyes:

[JW411]

trucky04:

I have only just found this thread. I cannot give you advice about job interviews for I was never any good at them myself!

What I wanted to say was keep trying. My company moved their first ops guy into the right seat about three years ago and he has just successfully completed his God training and is now in the left seat. I have to tell you that it took him 5 or 6 years of badgering before the management took much notice of him.

The next two ops guys start groundschool next month and two others are close behind them.

Good luck!