Run & Break

[Barney_Gumble]

Hello Folks,

I hope you forgive the intrusion of a civillian into the lions den of the military armed only with a simple PPL, but I have, what I am sure will be, a very simple question.

Can someone describe what is meant by the manoeuvre "Run & Break"

I have heard the term many times and haven't really understood what was meant and was a little afraid to ask.

Cheers

Andy

P.S. I spent 1986-1995 jumping out of, being transported by, and abseiling from aircraft of various descriptions as a Pongo in NI, South Georgia and the Gulf, so hope that might give me some cred and you won't take the pi** too much for a daft question.

[Background Noise]

It's just a speedy way of getting back on the ground. Instead of recovering straight-in, or joining the circuit from overhead or crosswind, you 'run in' a high speed through initials and then 'break' (climbing turn at high (ish) g to kill the speed) to arrive at a normalish downwind position from whence you can land from a normal finals turn. Used to be seen as the most expeditious and tactically safe way of recovering.

[BEagle]

My understanding of the origin of this manoeuvre is that it was evolved during WW2 by the Allied Tactical Air Forces. Basically, the idea was to keep a fighting element at its combat speed until the very last moment before splitting the formation and decelerating rapidly into an approach to land. In case the other side attempted to 'bounce' them whilst allied fighters were slow and dirty with gear and flap down. Thus it was common to keep low and fast as the aerodrome was reached, followed by a hard break into a steep turn with minimum power, selecting gear and flap at the limiting speeds before a curved final turn. The sequence of the break would have been pre-briefed; earlier they were in tight formation but later experience allowed a more fluid tactical formation to be used. The VRIAB - Visual Run In and Break - was taught to all students on even the humble JP in the 70s; later we also used it at the Tactical Weapons Unit at Brawdy on the Hunter. It went something like this:

Approach the aerodrome at 2000 ft, then, when inside the MATZ at about 30 seconds out, on passing the visually significant Initial Point, call 'Initials', descend to 500 ft and fly parallel to the runway on the dead side. If a pair, then lead would be closest to the runway - if a 4-ship then lead would be closest, for a left-hand breal No. 2 would be in fighting wing on lead (60 deg swept and about 50-100 yards back), No.3 in 'pansy battle' about 1000 yards line abreast on lead and No. 4 in fighting wing on No. 3. This would be flown at about 420 KIAS. On passing the threshold, lead would break up and left with airbrake, idle power, 23 flap and 60-75 deg angle of bank. 2 would follow lead, 3 would follow 3 and then 4 would follow. You always kept the other guys 'on the horizon' and aimed for equal spacing downwind - your fellow fliers being your sternest critics! When level downwind at 1000 ft, you selected airbrake in, power up a bit to help the poor little hydraulic pump, then gear down, 38 flap initially until the speed was down to threshold plus about 15 knots, then full flap as you beagn a continuous descending turn onto final, aiming to roll out all nicely stabilised at about 400 ft.

- and it was great fun! But sadly noisy - so quieter, more limp-wristed arrivals later became the norm!

[Barney_Gumble]

Thanks for the info. The reason for the question was that I have been told whilst in the circuit that an aircraft would complete this manoeuver and I had no idea what to expect or where. Now I will know where to look for the incoming a/c

[Miserable Old Git]

MPA VRIAB – 250’ (ish) about M0.95 as you don’t want to drop a boom as you turn. 6G as you pitch

The best thing about the place as I remember, or maybe it’s the price of a spicy and coke

MOG

[Specaircrew]

Or, if you've just given the gentleman doing 0.95 3 tonnes of fuel, you bimble across the top of the arriving Timmy(that's taking you home) at 305kts on a bumpy afternoon and clock up 0.05g above the normal limit ...........well it was my last ever trip in the venerable old airliner :-)

[sycamore]

MOG/Specaircrew

We(Albert) used to do it at 250+kts and 95ft if we got the appropriate code from ATC "BOG is "hot" or "cold". BOG for the Boring Old Git(OC FLYING) whether he was in the Tower or not.

Who was the guy who lifted the roof on the fire-section on his last trip( it really was -in Feb1993)?

I well remember beating the F3`s to t/o on a practice scramble<3mins,but that was in "those" days; later when 1312 became disorganised,/10/101 det, you were`nt allowed even to scramble after an air -raid warning,in case you were a/b before the mighty tanker!! (as it took them 30 mins to get transport, etc,etc)
I suppose it`s even worse nowadays!!

Remember those days,Wappo and Sproulie?
Anyway, must dash,got a SuperCub to fly to Jockland tomorrow, and a Harvard to come back, so " watch yer 6" in the LFA`S--sorry, I guess there`ll be no-one about!!:D :D

[A and C]

I am saddend to hear that the "run and break" is still being performed at civil airfields without all the traffic being briefed for what is about to happen.

About three years back a Yak and a Cessna hit each other , the cessna was flying "downwind" and the Yak was performing a "run and break" , this resulted in the death of three people.

The "run and break" is a military operational requirment as set out in posts above , I,m sure that the military would not think of performing a run and break without all pilots being fully briefed and yet you tell us that at a civil airfield this is being done with some traffic who are unsure of what is going on.
This can only be another accident waiting to happen.

[steamchicken]

We Ask - BEags has the Answer! Sounds entertaining anyway..

[EESDL]

Beaten to it by a post.
Just re-iterating that the VRIAB is not something that fits in well with a 'civvy' airfield/mentality.
It's that there are too many variables - do all aviators know who has priority etc, considering that there's normally only an 'info' or 'radio' service.
i would imagine that there have been many more 'near' misses with more high performance aircraft on the register mixing it with your Cubs and Pups.
Ageing ex-mil pilots who remember what a hoot it was amongst them!

[Barney_Gumble]

Hi A and C

I will read with interest the incident report and the other postings.

I would like to say that I may have led you astray by a poor use of words.

When I heard this manoeuver mentioned on the R/T it was quite a while ago now and I was NOT PIC and the commander of the aircraft I was in was a very experienced military pilot. He knew exactly what was going on but it happened so fast that I missed it. I asked for a description of "Run & Break" just so that I could picture it in my mind in slow time. Also I asked for the rationale behind such a manoeuvre just to add to my knowledge bank; I am not sure the rationale applies to a C172 bimbling from Biggin to Duxford ;)

Suffice it to say that I will now either keep well clear or make absolutely sure that the controller knows that he/she has a limited experience tyro in the circuit and he/she will be able to judge that permitting such a join could be dangerous.

I doubt whether it would happen as my flying has been to date always out of civilian airfields.

Any confusion caused was not intentional.

Regards

Andy

[BEagle]

Unless operational circumstances dictate otherwise, a VRIAB does NOT take priority over other circuit traffic at a military aerodrome. Certainly, particularly at a civil aerodrome, aircraft joining for a VRIAB must take the actions of other ac already established in the aerodrome circuit into consideration - and GIVE WAY!! If you - in your C172 - or me, in one of my PA28s - is in a legitimate downwind position, then anyone 'breaking into the circuit' MUST arrange the timing of their break to position behind such other traffic. Otherwise - as has been said - there's every likelihood of an accident being caused. Because if somone breaks into the circuit in a hard turn ahead of another ac legitimately approaching the 'downwind' position, then the downwind traffic will be invisible to the mate on the break. Thus a climbing break is actually safer (and more satisfying as well!) - because other traffic in the circuit can more easily be seen against the skyline.

But then again, 300 ft and 300KIAS in a JP5A, idle and airbrakes abeam the tower and don't touch the power 'till you're on the ground - great days!! Oh dear, oh dear - the horns are coming out....

[Flying Lawyer]

As A&C and EESDL say, bad practice in a busy civvy circuit.

But, then again, if you're last to land just before the airfield closes ......... low fast run in, climbing break, followed by a continuous descending turn rolling out on short finals ............ what better way to end the day. :) Happy memories of WW in the old days, BEagle?

Barney
For PPLs like us, it helps if you're flying something which at least vaguely looks the part - Cessnas and Piper Cubs doing a RIAB look silly! ;) And, don't even think about trying it until you've done it many times with an instructor.

[BEagle]

Spot on, FL!!

My favourite ever VRIAB was early one cold winter morning at Brawdy. Over 480 KIAS at initial, at rather lower height than one should. Throttle very carefully back to idle and a wonderful "HOOOOOOOOO...." 'blue note' over the top of the groundschool where the junior course were studying. A mate on that course said that the lecturer stopped dead in his tracks as I went overhead....

Then there was night flying on the 'Dog at Abingdon in the early 1990s. As fast as the little $od would go at 100 ft over the boss' office, then a split ar$e break to land - the touchdown area could easily be seen in the moonlight. Unfortunately He hadn't gone flying (as I thought he had), so night VRIABs were subsequently banned - oops!

[Barney_Gumble]

FL,

I am in total agreement with you sir, me and my little C172 just like bimbling along in a nice safe fashion. I am not a pro pilot just a hobbyist who likes to be safe for me and those around.

The chances of me doing any kind of thing like that are nil and will remain that way ;)

Andy

[Specaircrew]

Soz Sycamore but I find it difficult to believe that Albert has ever acheived an IAS of 250kts, indeed one of the advantages of having a proper tanker on 1312 Flt nowadays is that we can taxy faster than Alberts normal cruising speed :-)

[Miserable Old Git]

Another favourite: Early morning return from an exercise (can’t remember the name) and beating up the Death Star doing ccts on the short runway at MPA. To those of you who I woke, I’m so very, very sorry…..Hee Hee

[BEagle]

Agreed! Excellent sport to remind the ground pounders what 4 Conways over the Officers Mess sounds like when they haven't been ar$ed to go to work on Saturday morning.....!!

[Mud Clubber]

Civvy airports are great for RIABs, because most of them don't understand what they are! I find "low deadside with immediate turn onto finals" helps them, but still on one particular PD they refused to enforce any speed or height restrictions even when asked. NICE.

[fidae]

I'm stunned by some of the ignorance and waffle posted by some people. A visual run in and break is the quickest, most fuel efficient and safest means to recover a fourship to any airfield with minimum disruption to the rest of the circuit. If its busy just bring the speed back to sequence with all circuit traffic. Go as low as is allowed to skyline all the other circuit players and aid tally. Just for the civilian peace of mind we will not break a four ship into the circuit so it comes into confliction with other players, its not a cowboy manvre. Slow trainer aircraft and large numbers of fast jets, don't mix so most Military bases will establish a light aircraft hold to provide deconfliction and allow the FJ to land, a go-around will cost me approx 150kgs of fuel compared to the couple of litres that a Grob uses!! Having said all of the above there is no better way announcing your arrival than as a tight echelon 4 ship at 500 kts+ coming over the runway threshold followed by a 1/2 sec fan break.

Sorry, forgot the most important part of the debate. a VRIAB is the standard means of joining the visual pattern at every NATO base unless promulgated otherwise.

[scroggs]

Ah, Sycamore and Spec Aircrew - happy memories from the early days of HM South Atlantic Flyers Club. RIABs were compulsory even for Fat Albert, and much banter was exchanged in the bars about the quality of your RIAB, whether you were driving an F4, GR3, Shar, Albert or what-have-you.

I well remember one sunny afternoon when an F4 got itself all caught up in one or more cables on Stanley's tarmac - sorry, aluminium. We in Albert 1 had plenty of gas and now some time to kill, so we indulged ourselves in improving our RIAB technique, and giving most sections at Stanley a reasonable close-up of Albert going faster than walking pace at (m'lud) the minimum break height of 250ft.

We tried climbing breaks, level breaks, left and right hand - even one on the other runway (everyone else was - wisely - on the ground). Eventually the word came that the stranded Toom was now clear of the AM2, and we could begin an approach. Of course, the horns were well and truly out by now, so we decided to investigate Albert's ability to approach Vne at low(ish) level. I have it on good authority that the ASI registered 320 kts - briefly - as the climbing turn was initiated. I was too busy accurately judging my 250 ft by the proximity of the VCR and the roof of the Stn Cdr's portacabin - ohhhhh sh1t!!!!

On taxiing in to the 1312 pan, the ground crew took great pleasure in presenting me with the ceremonial (and very green) SD cap, and OC 1312's compliments. Would I care to join him for a no-tea, no-biccies chattette? Of course I would! There followed one of the best bollockings it has ever been my privilege and pleasure to witness - right up to the time the phone rang. OC 1312 said something like 'Yessir. Are you sure sir? But... but.... yessir. [Gulp]' I asked if he was all right? He replied that the staish was delighted to see such spirit and spunk from the Alberteers, and would be treating the crew of Albert 1 to beers at 23 Sqn fifthwith.

Much banter and booze later, OC1312 and I kissed and made up, and Albert's RIAB reputation had been considerably enhanced - and without an overstress! Maybe not very politically correct, but bloody good fun!

Happy days - well, some of them were!

[UncleFester]

I seem to remember these manoevres at MPA carried out by F4's and F3' s being referred to as Fiery Crosses... When we did it in the C130's it became a smokey cross for obvious reasons!!. I plead guilty to a certain incident down there when I asked if the "BOG" was hot or cold and ATC didn't understand the transmission. Looking up at the Control tower on the way past at 250kts....not a lot of feet and seeing the BOG himself shaking his fist. The subsequent one-sided interview was brought swiftly to a halt when he realised who and why I was there. Great fun...got the pictures to prove it... How do I post them in these forums? Clues anyone? :O

[Barney_Gumble]

Now I understand what the maneouvre is, I have a memory of seeing a similar type of flying when the RAF dropped supplies by parachute using Hercs into the bay at King Edwards Point on South Georgia. They semed to pass low and then pull up hard and "Go Around" turning away from the land.

Any of you guys fly these missions during April - November 1991? I seem to remember a dressed up dummy being thrown out for a giggle.

Andy

[whowhenwhy]

As a spectator to many forms of aircrew japery from my vantage point within the tower, both at mpa and others, I think the best initials join I have seen so far was by a soon to be ex-RAF pilot. Sitting in a tower in the north east of the flattest bit of England, we were expecting a privately owned black hunter to pitch up! Dutifully, the gentleman in question called approach, and then me, requesting a low level join. "Yes of course you can", I replied!" Well we were on rwy 22, good vis, should be able to see a black hunter at about 9 miles, nope! Pilot called initials, nope still can't see him! Pilot called on the break to land as he appeared from behind the trees over the threshold!!!!!!!!!! Very impressed! However, my assistant then patted me on the shoulder and told me that the boss would like a word. "Could you please ask the gentleman flying that ac whether he's still in the air force, because if he is I'd like him to come to my office!" Oh well, fun police strike again!:D

[Top Bunk Tester]

Barney, as a humble ex-overseer of driver (airplane)........ OK I used to sit between and behind them with hands on throttles and flaps in the vain hope that I may be able to stop them killing me......... My recollections of South Georgia are that it wasn't a run & break but more of post drop dambusters type manoeuver ie pedal to metal and pull up and left. The intention not being to slow down but to stop Albert impacting the glacier at the end of the Cumberland Bay. I do not recall a dummy being dropped but our usual wheeze was to stuff a few blank Blueys in the top of the harness pack. On deployment this gave a nice impression of a split mail bag. Was fun to watch the booties in their Geminis(?) racing round the bay trying to collect all of the "lost mail".:D :D

[Barney_Gumble]

TBT,

Was fun to watch the booties in their Geminis(?) racing round the bay trying to collect all of the "lost mail".

I was one of those booties and it was bl@@dy freezing in the rigid raiders :p :p

Tell you what though, it was a life saver to see the aircraft in the bay ;)

Thanks to all that re-supplied us all those years ago. I shall gracefully retire back to Private Flyers forum

Cheers

Andy

[UncleFester]

Further to Top Bunk testers recollections of Cumberland bay, We used to fly a figure of 8 pattern with the nav watching the starboard wingtip clearance from the cliffs, the co-pilot counting the range to the glacier and me aiming for the Gemini.....this was in a developing blizzard coming off the glacier. We did 6 runs in all...with a bloody great russian factory ship abeam the drop point. Didn't miss once!! Comment from rigid raider..."thanks guys you've got bloody great big ones!!"

Incidently I was asked by senior pongo to deliver some spares to SG. I asked what was in the box....electronic valves and light bulbs!!! He seemed to think there was a landing strip on the glacier!! Soon disillusioned when I told him they wouldn't survive a sea landing but I'd try to drop them into the Gemini for him!! ;)

P.S. regarding my last post it was a free drop from 150' ish...supposed to be 250' but that was too high for accuracy in a confined space.:O