Missile "Jammer" Bill Introduced

[lunkenheimer]

Missile "Jammer" Bill Introduced

By Russ Niles
Newswriter


U.S. airliners would be equipped with missile-jamming gear -- at a cost of up to $10 billion -- under a bill introduced in Congress last Wednesday. Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) sponsored the bill, which would pay between $1 million and $1.5 million to add the electronic gear to each and every airliner in the country. "This is a very, very serious danger," Schumer told a news conference held Sunday in Manhattan.

The complete story is at:

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/9_07b/briefs/182762-1.html

[ghost-rider]

Surely the airlines can't be expected to cough-up for that amount ! :rolleyes:

The idea is great in principle, but as always, who will pay ? :rolleyes:

[GlueBall]

...Besides not even all the USAF transports (C5,C141,C17) have that cabability.

Furthermore, shoulder launched surface to air missles could easily be substituted with more readily available 50 caliber machine guns. Near an airport perimeter, suicidal terrorists could put enough holes into the wet wing of a departing jet to cause structural failure or to trigger a probable fuel tank explosion.

It would be cheaper if concerned civilized nations would get together and collectively infiltrate terrorist organizations with agents and kill them from the inside out. And, to be sure, it would be cheaper than sending a $1 Million cruise missle into a $100 tent.
:(

[Big Tudor]

And where would it end? Air to Ground / Air to Air missiles??? Would having the missile jamming system u/s render the aircraft AOG? All for a perceived threat than no-one has yet quantified.
If someone is determined to down an aircraft, they will. Knee jerk reactions will not help the situation. It's about time someone re-injected some common sense into the whole debate.

[ghost-rider]

Common sense ? Nah - it'll never happen ! :rolleyes:

[RatherBeFlying]

Now that's a big waste of money.

There's lots of other stuff out there that can knock down an airliner.

Give anyone the right toy and they can bag Bush.

[DC Meatloaf]

Stupid ideas have never stopped Sen. Boxer before.

The bill is S. 311 and can be found at Thomas (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:s.00311:).

Boxer and Schumer expect the Secretary of Transportation to purchase the anti-missile systems and make them available to the airlines.

[Belgian Chap]

I may be in no position to judge the seriousness of threats of airliners being taken down by missiles...
And no doubt a certain Korean Boeing comes to mind, but that was ages ago and in a totally different situation...

But...

Am I wrong to read 'Save The Defence Industry' between the lines?

If not, would I be guilty of 'trading with foresight' if I bought shares of companies that supply such systems...

And last but not least, would it be most inappropriate for me to satisfy my curiosity and enquire what shares of which companies said politicians buy or sell?

I think this kind of proposals or bills aren't the most efficient ways of helping the airline industry nor the safe operation of airtransport.

BC

[B Sousa]

Just remember Boys and Girls, those F-16s that are scrambled to "Escort" your Airliner as you are fine dining on peanuts, may also be given enough bogus information to blow your ass out of the sky as a perceived threat. That bothers me worse.

[Squawk7777]

I am not a weapons or military expert, will this anti-missile device defend against any SAM and AAM? How effective is this system?

Bert, you're dead right. Let's not forget the Korean Air 747 and the Iranian Airbus that got shot down...

[Ignition Override]

Politicians Boxer and Schumer would gladly increase our federal income tax by at least 10-20%, whether to pay for new airline defensive weapon systems, or just for more bloated bureaucracies, if given the opportunity.

But as was the case in the former Clinton regime, with whom these types are allied, they probably also despise their own military, if you dig beneath the surface.

Their types just want to take more of YOUR money, never mind whether you honestly earned it or not-have you ever walked through the streets of Berkeley, Madison or Austin?

[PAXboy]

Wowee - this has to be one of the stupidest headline grabbers I've seen in a long while.

He knows that it won't happen but allows him to be in a position to say (although, hopefully not) "I told you so - if only you had listened to me".

I'll bet his constituency contains at least one missile manufacturer and that they suggested the idea in the first place! :rolleyes:

By the way, Outlook spell checker reports 'iPaq' (a palm held PDA) and suggests 'Iraq' ....

[Iron City]

Looks like "Chuck the Schm%#$" Schumer is at it again. If he is so concerned with aviation safety why did he do everything he could to make it take as long as possible to put a terminal doppler weather radar in for JFK and LGA? Screwed around for 10 years on this, a lot of it his fault while a boro president and representative. Never saw a TV camera or reporter with notebook that he didn't want to play to. No such thing as bad publicity as far as he's concerned.

[PaperTiger]

PAXboy, Senator Boxer is a she.

The word harpy suddenly popped into my head. :hmm:

[Ghostflyer]

Its good banter for the punters suggesting a missile defence system but you are all right, no one will pay for it.

As to the vulnerability of an airliner from a missile, it depends on the missile. The Korean and Iranian aircraft were hit at high altitude by missiles fired from an Aegis class boat and a fighter.

The rockets involved were large, had big warheads and were specifically fused in a way to knock down big targets. The dangers to any aircraft of a hull breach at altitude, whilst fully pressurised, are considerably higher than at lower altitude.

Small unsophisticated SAMs of the SA-7 variety only go up to 10,000' or so, have small warheads and are heat seekers. Against the low sightline rates generated by the average airliner, this means that they are most likely to hit an engine causing a, hopefully, contained failure and are less likely to cause a hull breach.

The chances of survival of a big aircraft against such a threat are considerably higher than was the case for the Koreans, Iranians and even Ukranians in the engagements and misslies that confronted them.

Still if launched upon, full back stick on a bus will give at least 2g and 60° of bank, now no missile in the world can pull ......8g! Oh well, best put the missile defence maneuvres on the back burner.

Yep SAMs do pose a threat to civil aircraft in just the same way as do mountains and other lethal phenomena. The Pk (Probability of kill) is probably not as great as some might expect (Pk mountain=1.0). It isn't squeeze the trigger and watch the splash as the uninformed press would have you believe.

There is no point in going overboard about one limited threat otherwise the terrorists have already won.

Ghost:ok:

[Squawk7777]

I just remembered that there was an incident where a GA jet was hit by a SAM missile. The aircraft involved could have been a Gulfstream III and I believe this was in Africa about 2 - 3 years ago. I can't recall details right now, but the missile knocked off the engine. Ironically there was nothing left for the crew to worry about drag or windmilling. Job was well done!

I am mulling over this. If someone knows more details, please let me know.

7 7 7 7

[RRAAMJET]

7777,
I beleve the incident you are referring to was over a decade ago, when a 125-800 on loan (?) to the Botswana Gov. was hit by an air-to-air from an escort (aircraft, not car!!!). My memory is v.fuzzy on this one, but I think that's the gist of it. The jet lost it's rt eng and emerg. overwing door, as I recall. I seem to remember it being returned to BAe Chester.
Anyone got more info? Piccies?

[golfyankeesierra]

Every time I pass behind a Saudi 747 I always wonder (but always forget to ask), what are the strange little bulbs near the engine exhausts that you don't see on any other 747.
Could it be that they have such a thing we're talking about here?

[RRAAMJET]

Did some research...

It was a HS 125-800, carrying Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana over Angola. Shot at by MiG 23 of Angolan air force. First missile struck as described in my previous post, second one (luckily) locked on to falling separated engine.

My memory served me well, it seems, and I was correct in having been shown the A/C back at Chester, during rebuild, whilst in the RAF.

HABYARIMANA was not so lucky in 94 when his Falcon 50 was downed by a SAM. :(

[Squawk7777]

RRAAMMJET

you wouldn't know the tail number would you? There's one at Signature, BWI (G-TOMI). Is that the one?