Anyone know the answer?

[RampDog]

Curiosty has got the better of me. I've noticed that the QF fleet all have the Aussie flag reversed on the starboard side. I know that flying the flag upside down is a recognised distress signal, but what is the significance of the ensign reversed?

RampDog
By the way, Virgin have got theirs all the right way around.
:confused:

[gaunty]

I guess the painting contractor didn't have the right gear to mirror the template.:p

You get what you pay for.;)

[Islander Jock]

The Australian National Flag Association doesn't have a specific reference to painted or decal facsimiles of the ANF but does say:

"Flag against a surface whether horizontally of vertically:
The top left quater should be placed uppermost on the observer's left, as viewed from the front"

I take it Rampdog that when you look at the starboard the flag has the canton (Union Jack) in the upper right hand corner as opposed to the upper left? If this is the case, I'd suggest their thought process was that the painting of the flag either side has been designed to represent a single object, ie put the two together and they are the same as a woven flag. Doesn't appear correct IAW protocol though.

This is probabably the only scenario that we didn't cover in ceremonial training on army promotion courses. :cool:

www.australianflag.org.au/protocol.asp (http://www.australianflag.org.au/protocol.asp)

[topend3]

i had wondered this for some time myself having noticed this before, does seem rather odd doesn't it?

[RampDog]

Thanx Islander Jock, you certainly know your flag protocol!
Yes, the Union Jack is in the top RH quadrant when viewed on the starboard side, and yes I made the same assumption that the painter's thought process must have been to represent a woven flag.
In that case, they should have represented the flag flapping in the breeze, and at cruising speed that would be some breeze, so then the flag's trailing edge would soon be in tatters.
Anyway my point is, as Qantas is our Nation's flag carrier airline you would think they would get it right (Virgin have).
Could you imagine the US flag painted on back to front on United or American Airlines, it would be unpatriotic. :rolleyes:

[Double Asymmetric]

Jeeeeeeez guys lighten up!
It is not uncommon for flags to be reversed on the starboard side of an aircraft [hi-viz mil a/c come to mind]....simply (as hinted) to represent a flag's behavior in the relative airflow.

A little bit of artistic license, that's all.

[Elk McPherson]

... I have to admit that seeing the Australian flag (or any other flag for that matter) proceeding fly-end first has always been a bit odd.:O

A flag, I would contend, is designed to be flown and is not like a Coat of Arms, which is a fixed non-reversible graphic design. If presented on a boat, aircraft, whatever, I would paint it as QF have - Staff end first.

Check ya
;)

[nungry]

Rampdog,

United and American, as well as most other airlines in the world, do the same as QF. Its a bit hard to tell with most of them as most flags are a reversable mirror image. As usual, looks like Islander Jock barking up the right tree. Must be some protocol thing. :confused:

[Keg]

Islander. Their answer will come back as has been told in this forum- the flag 'flies' from the mast which is at the 'front'. I asked them a LOONNGGGG time ago when I couldn't find any gen about it in the RAAF Manual of Ceremonial.

So it is actually the correct protocol in this instance for the flag to be painted on the way it is.

So Rampdog, does this mean that Virgin have it wrong and their flags are actually painted on backward on the right side of their aircraft? :D

[Islander Jock]

Elk,

good point about the flag flying with the "hoist" (flag pole end) into wind.

I have emailed the ANFA and posed the question to them.



Cheers Keg,

Just looked at a few RAAF 707 photos and as Double Asymmetric says, mil aircraft follow that protocol.

OK, let's move onto Virgin then and ask them the reasoning behind their orientation of the ANF.

[Back Seat Driver]

Hey Keg,
Considering that the most likely time anyone on the outside would see the 'nose art', is when the aicraft is pushing back from the terminal, wouldn't it make sense for the flag to fly with the 'Pommy Bit' facing the r.send. Therefore the flag on the left, representative of the aircraft being towed forward again,perhaps.;)

[Hugh Jarse]

That's what I reckon it is. :}

A bottle of Evian for the best description of how the aircraft painters found it ;)

[RampDog]

Keg
From the sounds of things, Qantas have got it right, but to the outside observer it just looks odd. Not surprisingly Virgin have chosen to go away from convention.
I wasn't having a go at anyone, I am not a QF or DJ basher, I was just asking out of curiosity.
Does anyone know or remember if Ansett followed that protocol ?

[Keg]

Hey RD, I'll admit that it fools people all the time- including Flight Attendants, Engineers and the occcaisional pilot.

I remember jumping on an aircraft in Shanhai and noting a tech log entry that mentioned the flag on the right side of a/c had been painted on backward. I instinctively thought that they must have painted it with the union jack at the back end. Went and had a look and discovered that flag was right and tech log entry was wrong. We were actually bring the cabin crew back to SYD who had noted the 'incorrect' flag before departing to Beijing and back a few days earlier. I queried dthem and found the culprit who had just never noticed it before.

I think I was being a bit precious with my other comment. I've edited it.

Do you guys at VB have a way of forwarding info such as this on to see whether it was a decision to have the flag that way or just an oversight?

[Arm out the window]

Obviously they need to invest a few mil to fit LCD flat screens combined with airspeed sensing equipment to ensure that the flag not only points the right way during pushback or forward taxiing or flight, but also flaps at the correct speed for the airspeed, corrected for density altitude of course.
I'm sick of this unprofessional display of un-Australian flag awareness.

[RampDog]

Arm out the window's right!
I do believe that the EFIS displays on the Airbus series of aircraft do have an option to indicate flag attitude and flap(ping in the wind) settings. Bad luck Virgin have opted to go all Boeing and miss out on this feature.
How true Blue are they anyway, being half owned by a Pom? And would they dare to fly the Union Jack the wrong way around?
No seriously, why, after a century of flight do we still hang onto so many nautical traditions. I think this flying machine thing is here to stay.
:ok:

[Islander Jock]

Received the following from ANFA today:

"The ANF must face forwards on both the port and starbord sides of an aeroplane. It is the same principle as onboard a ship.
The bow is the front (cockpit) end of the plane. A good example is the RAAF tail markings of red, white and blue vertical bars.
The red is first on both port and starboard followed by white then blue. (if blue was first if would be a French symbol!).
On the wing tips the Leaping Red Kangaroo roundel always points forward ie towards the cockpit. As aboard ship, the starboard side of an aircraft outranks the port.

On a military uniform the ANF, when worn as a shoulder patch, must face forward on both right and left shoulder. Both flags will face the advance direction, the direction the soldier walks.

The Qantas logo on the tail of every plane faces the cockpit however when placed on a letterhead Qantas puts their logo in reverse, facing the right, a heraldic position of retreat or defeat!!! At least they get it right on the planes."


So there's the answer folks. Qantas has it right and Virgin are the ones perhaps using a bit of artistic licence.

[Woomera]

Thanks IJ if you're lucky, you learn something new every day.

Well there you go, back in your box gaunty.:p