Avalon Airshow 2003 Is A Dud So Far!

[tealady]

Avalon Airshow seems to only be about half its usual size - I know the trade days don't attract the big crowds but it is the quietest I have ever seen it and I have been an exhibitor at every Avalon Airshow from 1992 and the weather has been the best ever!

[Sheep Guts]

Ive never been to Avalon. Been to quite a few over the years . The best I ever went was Bicentenial at RAAF Richmond in 1988. It was great C-5,Antonov 124,C141,B52 fly over,F-15,Harriers, Tornadoes,Nimrods,F-111s,Mirage and F18 simulated dog fight and preformance comparison and also a Sukio Aerobatic Plane, which are now common. I ended up working at Richmond and was a participant in the 1990 92 Shows which were a little smaller.

I suppose the rerason this ones not as good would be declining economy and Airline industry looking lousy, except for Asia where it still seems to be booming. Also impending war wouldnt help either.

How much for entry is it this year by the way?


Regards
Sheep

[QNIM]

Tealady Im with you p#ss poor after what we have
come to expect from previous years. Unless there
is a dramatic improvement we won't be exhibiting
in future shows. Q :mad:

[Woomera]

Well the military and the civilian mind for that matter is elsewhere for the moment.

I'm not normally a pessimist but this Woomera is rereading some Churchill at the moment and the "lowering clouds gather".

Things "aviation" are not as they were just now and may not be for a little while. :(

Might drag out those old Vera Lynn 78s and have a little listen to console myself.:p

[QNIM]

Hey woomera roll out the violins, this was
advertised as the greatest show at Avalon yet not
so. Love Vera Lynn. Cheers Q

[OpsNormal]

Sheep Guts.....

Agreed, the Bi Centenial Airshow was just one of those rare airshows where there was almost "too much" happening at any one time to keep track of. :ok:

Going back even further, Schofields '81 was another one with the Mirages (painted white in those days, with those red and blue stripes) screaming around in formation for most of the show when other acts such as the "Courting Chinooks", and the Bombing raid CAC Mustang and F1-11 were getting prepared for their respective routines.

Warbirds Over Scone 2003 (http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~mbbbpw/wos2001.htm) promises to make those days of yore come again to our skies and if the last show was anything to go by, this year will be a pearler! I also must admit to never having been to an Avalon Airshow, but some members of my family have and thought that yes, Avalon possessed a good selection of new technology and new shiny a/c, but lacked the "balls and all" air displays of some of the past airshows. I guess, when it comes to airshows, it is horses for courses..... :D

Care to add anything Bendo, Spud? :}

[dingo084]

I wouldn't call Avalon a dud just yet. However as tealady points out the attendance during the trade days did seem to me to be quite a bit down on previous shows.

Trade days are exactly that, not for Joe Public but those of us who are in the trade. Yes it is impressive to see the F/A18-F do a display that is outside the flight envelope of anything most pilots will ever fly, but, I for one never intend to buy one!

I spent 3 fully occupied (trade) days inside and outside the big tents. The most valuable thing for me is not only the networking one conducts, but just catching up with all those fellow aviators I have had the pleasure of working with over the last XX years.

To those with displays at Avalon, I hope you find it beneficial in the long run.

I also agree that the '88 Show at Richmond was a beauty, but it was a public consumption event, not a trade exhibition.

I am not attending the public days as it was only the trade aspect of the "Show" that appeals to me.

If you are going to the public days, take a hat, sunscreen and perhaps a raincoat as well.;)

ding

[Ascend Charlie]

I went on Thursday. The wind was too strong for the historic birds to fly, and the rain squall sent everybody off the airfield for some time.

The Beluga was parked so far away that few could be bothered to go there.

The big-noise displays were wonderful - F-111 warmup display (though he subsequently cancelled the final display) was a burn as usual, the F-15, the Super Cobra (all the more stunning by carrying 45,000 lbs of bombs during the display!), the Oz F-18 - all were good. The NH90 helicopter drew gasps of astonishment at its ability to recover from death-dealing attitudes that would make "normal" choppers become smoking holes in the ground.

The Roulettes, much as I should support them, were a waste of jet fuel - too small, too quiet, too far away, and their habit of flying away and then coming back a few minutes later means that a lot of meople miss the finale when they wander off for a drink.

Put them into Hawks, I say. Or bring back The Deltas in their Mirages.:zzz:

[Ang737]

I went today and was shocked to say the least that the F111 would fly twice and the Hornet (RAAF) not at all...

Ang;)

[QNIM]

Well tealady it's all over for another two years
there were a few moments of pleasure but I still
feel it didn't stack up to previous events. We
heard many complaints regarding content and
exspectations from previous shows, still working
out whether it was worth the effort and expense.
Q :confused:

[TheNightOwl]

I was there with a group on Sunday, and I have to say it's the last one I'll be attending. I willingly accepted the reduced altitude displays, and delighted in the "old-timers", as well as the Canberra and Hunter, but the rest of it was, from a spectator's point of view, a waste of time and money.
I heard, but can't confirm, that there was some "interference" in the proposed routines by some participants, to the point where they wouldn't fly, by Casa/Airshows Downunder and, if true, they each have a lot to answer for. As a spectacle, it left a lot to be desired, apart from the Yanks there was very little foreign participation. I was disappointed there was no UK presence, a couple of Tornados and Nimrod would have helped, as would an appearance by the Lancer from the US.
All in all, the most enjoyable part was the trip from/to YMMB, and the beers afterward.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:(

[marshall]

I don't think it was the actually flying displays that lacked excitement....more so if was the same old same old!

F-111 fuel dump and burn.......................PLEASE! :sad:

Done TIME after TIME! :zzz:

When will something NEW be done? :hmm:

[tealady]

Yep -all over for another two years. Trade day attendance down because people had to pay to get in on those days unless you knew an exhibitor with freebies - I had lots to give away and about 10 that weren't taken up. I did like that old Sopwith camel that ran worse than my lawnmower and it was effective that the show was continuous and not one of lone aircraft taking off in a laborious sequence (except for the formation teams). The crackdown on freebies was effective in more of those in attendance on the public days actually paid to get in but that also resulted in less people for exhibitors to show off their wares to.
I have said previously in letters to the organisers that family tickets need to be reduced in cost - my brother has 4 kids - cost to get in- $150.00, so he didn't go. Single entry tickets were $35.00. The food at past airshows was good quality and reasonably priced - $3.50 for a pie and $3 for a can of drink and not even cold for that price. Caught up with lots of friends from far flung places. Different crowd, not many 15 to 19 year olds - lots of the "gray" crowd enquiring after PPL's. Nowhere near the number of "freebie" posters, mugs etc. Time will tell if the $15,000 we spent on exhibiting at Avalon was worth it - at least it got us out of the office. Interesting politics played out by some very competitive exhibitors! Day 2 after the airshow and we have had about 15 enquiries compared with around 50 same time 2 years ago.

[tealady]

P.S. I forgot to mention the $5 per car in the public car park - and the Airshow is going ahead at Avalon for the next 15 years! I guess security costs went through the roof - noticed the security people replaced a lot of the volunteers this year.

[puff]

After having been involved as an exhibiter in 99 and 01 this was the first one that i'd just visited. Managed to get a freebie pass in on Friday, still to pay the $5 to park in the paddock. As tealady mentioned HUGE amount of Chubb Security staff, some seemed to look about 15 years old, none the less there were a LOT of them, all probably on $15 an hour....certainly would have been very costly.

The friday was DEAD in comparison to previous years. In the past they had a flying display during the day, then one in the evening, this year the display started at 2pm and ran thru. I was listening on a handheld radio and it was a disorganised mess, they were constantly asking the display pilots to end their routine early because the timing was stuffed up, a few times they ended up having 2 guys up in close proximity...all in all no where near as professional as it had been in the past.

There was a real lacking of freebies in the exhibition hall, and it was nearly impossible to board half the a/c that were on display. The Canadair 604 was wide open and I followed another guy onboard and the rep basically yelled from the back get off it's not open, all the others had ropes infront of the door when they were not 'open'.

Overall, still not bad and still one of the better airshows put on in this country, but a very poor effort and less professional than it had been in the past, I know a lot of others who felt the same, and I guess the sediments of this post show the same as well.

[TheNightOwl]

Tealady - I suspect your comparison of the Camel and your lawnmower was tongue in cheek but, in case not, here goes! I was concerned as well when I first heard the apparent problems with the LeRhone motor, but it appears that the "problem" is that the engine doesn't have a power-lever of any sort to control speed. This is acheived by a type of magneto, (the name escapes me), which can be selected to provide Full; 3/4; 1/2; 1/4; 1/8 power, as required, and does it by interrupting the output spark to the ignition circuits. I apologise if the explanation is less than accurate, but that's how it was explained to me on Sunday arvo by an afficionado supposedly in the know.
If anyone has a more complete/accurate explanation, I'd love to hear it, I'm intrigued as well.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl. :confused:

[Pole Vaulter]

Night Owl,

From what I have read about the engine in the Camel It does not have a throttle it simply runs flat out all the time. Power is controlled by the "blip switch" which simply cuts out the spark, hence the on and off sound the thing makes.

Overall the show was a disorganised rabble compared to previous years and the poor old "Flyers Market" in their miniature marquees must have wondered why they spent the mega dollars to have their goods covered by Avalon dust.

[[email protected]]

Having attended the last Oshkosh, Avalon was not an option until an unexpected freebie came my way for a trade day. When you can walk under military aircraft in the States and peer into cockpits, why the rope out here? Has anyone considered the elderly walking a mile from one end of the exhibits to the other (B1 to 'Guppy')with no means of transport!!! Come on, organisers! Get with the new millenium!
What exhibits were there to attract the ordinary aviation addict? I know it was a trade day, but how about encouraging the interest of our youth, instead of concentrating on MR. BIG!
The wide dispersal of tents/marquees fooled no one. Most of them faced the wrong way and were initially unmarked. Either take on board lessons from overseas airshows, or give it a miss.:ugh:

[wombat too]

Like many others I was disappointed with this year's show. My main focus is the lighter end of general aviation - the area that, alone of all in Australian aviation, is a growth area.

I attended the Thursday and Friday trade days, including the Fiday "Night Alight" which was particularly disappointing in that it had deliberately adopted a policy of focusing on Australian performers instead of the overseas tour. There ARE Australian acts that could have been included in this segment. No reason at all why we don't have local performers that could fly with pyrotechnics going off - don't even have to do low-level aeros at night to get that bit going.

Instead we were given a poorly-rehearsed "Son Et Lumiere" that plain stuffed up on its timing, a lot of laser light show in the sky waiting for the lone F-111 to make its three passes, a lot of "blank screen" in cinema/TV parlance, and too many repetitions of the same-old same-old machines that turn fuel into noise very effectively without anything to really distinguish it from last time except for the Temora Museum fleet - Phil Shaw' display in the Canberra was nothing short of spectacular for its lack of noise as well as the grace and scope of the manoeuvres.

The WW I replicas from Old Rhinebeck were by far the best-orchestrated sequence of the show - many of them in fact carried AUF registrations. Where were all the other AUF aircraft that are new, or the European aircraft that can now be registered with the AUF or with VH- on the tail. This is the real growth area in Australian aviation in 2003! They were in the static park but apparently not allowed to fly.

What about the Super Dimona motor-glider that doubles as a tug - why could it not strut its own stuff as well as being used to launch a vintage glider flown by the 78-year-old former Chief Designer of ARL (well done Alan - long may you keep doing it!). Where were the Australian hang-glider tugs, trikes and hang gliders? - and why only one gyroplane (with two similar shows punctuated by a 5- minute break).

Some airshow performers I spoke to were unhappy with the 3-1/2 hour briefing on Friday, and justifiably so! The Oshkosh airshow briefing I attended in the past lasted for 45 minutes - strictly controlled - for a far more extensive show. Performers who fail to stick to their announced times are one problem, but the controller who asked an aerobatic display to break his routine 3 minuted from the end to let the next act get airborne, and so caused a 6 minute delay, shows an appalling lack of professionalism and respect for the perfomer - one of Australia's best! The running sheet for Friday night showed one perfomer taking off in aircraft X at 20.08 even though he was still programmed to be airborne in aircraft Y until 20.16! Is this a stuff-up, or is this a stuff-up?

Add to that two aircraft damaged during the Rally arrival on Thursday because they were sequenced and then "not cleared" for landing on 36 when the wind was 15 - 20 knots from the south, and it seems all is not well in the state of Denmark.

Let's hope there is a real commitment, and a real sense of urgency from the organisers, to get it right next time.

Oh! By the way, the security was a real joke - having been checked by one security officer on Thursday I was then challenged by another 5 seconds after being cleared to move through, and on a verbal assurance i had just been checked was allowed to pass without reference to the first security guard.

The camping at Lara was an improvement on the previous aerodrome camping, except that the courtesy buses did not pick up campers where they had been told to go after the night display, and security directed people on foot, at night, through an unlit area behind the military (RAAF fortunately) aircraft park to get to another gate. At least it seems the public got out of the car park well inside last years 4 hour delays!

I'll still go again for the networking, but hope the organisational digit gets somewhat extracted by that time. I might even offer my services as a consultant - if I am in tha area of the industry by the next Avalon in 2005!

Wombat too

[grusome]

Wombat,

Consultant? Why not get on board as a volunteer like the other several hundred (almost 1000) and give the organisers the benefit of your expertise?

Gru