View Full Version : Oops - QF system cacks itself - Big mob!!

Eastwest Loco
12th Feb 2003, 10:41
Well folks, the move to the Amadeus GDS has certainly been a bad one for QF.

Over the last 2 days, their computer reservations system has mysteriously lost most of April's SYD OOL flights.

Passengers have been rebooked to the next day by the system on unsuitable flights and at most one flight SYD OOL and vv is showing (or a connection over Brisbane) with naturally the majority of discount seats well and truly shot.

What a coup de grace for DJ!! Even with their egg sucking dog of a web booking engine, they must be laughing their heads off.

The availability has been down for around 48 hours now, and right through NSW school holidays so the losses must now run into millions. I can almost feel the cold horror creeping through the veins of shareholders in Rat Inc.

This just goes to show you what happens when you let bean-counters select a reservations system. The deal being signed while most senior operational staff were in the US at a conference.

Amadeus is a hateful Eurocrud system, suited only to Airlines running out of a single hub or max 2 (ie: LH MUC and FRA) with little or no connecting services and low volume over the routes they service. It is totally unsuitable for an airline like QF with multiple hubs and large numbers of flights over some city pairs.

Some heads isa gonna roll at 50 Franklin St.

This is probably the biggest display of ineptitude I have witnessed since the TN Univac 494 dumped 6 days of Christmas to save itself back in the mid '70s.

I hope none of you have QF shares.

Amazing that they hadnt informed their res staff on the floor either. Totally an amateur effort.

Oh well - lotsa cheapies coming up for April.

Best all

EWL:( :(

Buster Hyman
12th Feb 2003, 11:35
Ah, I see some of the old AN number crunchers & mentally challenged decision makers have found a new home!:rolleyes:

You can't beat the home brew, can you EWL? None of the "off the shelf" systems would ever work at AN without significant modification, but still they persisted in buying the rubbish, hoping against hope that someone with intelligence would modify it to justify all the perks they enjoyed at the contract signing.:}

Eastwest Loco
12th Feb 2003, 12:36
Oh yes Buster

The BA checkin system - wasnt that a monumental disaster.

QF however are soldiering on with USAS Checkin for loco - a magnificent system that was introduced when I was res supervisor TN WNY and Cube is still running in he background for yield management.

How many mainframes does one airline need?

Best ditch Amateurdeus and go back to Qube.

In this day and age, the current debacle is a total disaster.

Best mate


Kwaj mate
13th Feb 2003, 00:03
But QF had some great people in their reservations units a while back.
All this new economics reform & "shareholder returns" B.S. has been a major failure over the past 10-15 years.
They get rid of the good (older) staff & employ kids, who make serious errors.
This is not restricted to their reservations facilities either.
They sure messed this one up.

Southern handler
13th Feb 2003, 00:19
Could be scary in 2004 and 2005 when USAS load control and FIND and QUBE checkin are replaced with Amadeus, let hope they do a better job with this one

Eastwest Loco
13th Feb 2003, 06:43

The res units are still staffed by good people BUT they are not allowed to know anything anymore. Quickres has killed the knowledge base. Once there was a 2 week training course (I am talking TAARSANs 1 and 2) including a week of introduction into the culture of the Airline and it's history and a week of AIRIMP/SIPP input and computer training, followed by 2 weeks with Paddy hovering behind you and your school on the front line.

Now it is 2 days and away you go.

The same applies to Load control. I would be interested to know how many ground handling agents could get an aeroplane out on time with a manual trim sheet. Southern handler can most likely advise us of what level of training they have there. I know I could still drop a line after a short study of the sheet, as could anyone who ever did that daily. The only one I know who can still do it and is still in the game would be "dribbler" at DPO QF.

It would be interesting to know how many aircrew could comfortably pull a manual trim down.

QUBE is actually still running all reservations and inventory functions, so one must ask why QF invested in Amateurdeus in the first place.

May I humbly suggest that QF Aircrew scrub up on Loco before they cut over. The system sucks like a JT8D and I cant imagine checkin is any better.

Best all


13th Feb 2003, 07:30
I would suggest its more a case of human error within QF than anything to do with Amadeus. Give me Amadeus any day over that crap called Qube!

Eastwest Loco
13th Feb 2003, 07:39
May I ask what part of Amadeus you work with WW?

The interface for Agents is a total shocker when one goes for direct access. Flifo is very unreliable and cumbersome. Availability sucks. Basically very unfriendly.

If any Agents on Sabre want to make their lives easier with QF availability displays, substitute the {change} key wih the cross of lorraine, and you bypass Amadeus and get availabiliy direct from Qube, where it is hosted. Six flight display rather than 3 and much more accurate class sensitive and connecting flight info.

Best regards


13th Feb 2003, 09:53

Are you sure that someone didn't just press a few wrong buttons when trying to add the new SYD-OOL schedule to the system? Do the old flights have to be deleted first?
Problem seems to be fixed by now (Thu), the new schedule has a couple of daily 763 flights (are these the all economy 767s?) and the rest 717s. Interesting one of the 717 flights only operates on Tue,Thu,Sat,Sun, but I can't find what sector this aircraft does on Mon,Wed,Fri. Any ideas? Also Mel-Ool will have 5 x 717 flights/day as from late March.


Eastwest Loco
13th Feb 2003, 10:15
No clue there HOBAY

It would seem the threat of an all Y on leisure destinations is coming to fruition. I have also seen all Y 733s on SYDOOL so it seems to be a sealed deal.

It seems the rat is becoming selectively Virginesque.



13th Feb 2003, 11:52
I work with native Amadeus which is more like Taarsan was than either Qantam or Qube. Availability is not hosted in Qube it is from Amadeus. All pnrs have a mirror pnr created in Qube which is where the departure control system gets its info from. This is only until the new dcs system is implemented.
LDP is only used for domestic flights at this time, which is why there is still a little bit of USAS around.

Kwaj mate
14th Feb 2003, 03:12
I think the Sched Change course I did with Qantam was about 21 days in duration - many years ago.
One of the better systems (is) was (Sita) GabII; light on some things but great on management reports etc.;
Quite user friendly once you got the hang of it & had great facilities.

15th Feb 2003, 08:29
The 4 x a week (Tu, Th, Sa, Su) 717 flight comes in from ROK-SYD then does SYD-OOL-SYD. One those days a SYD a/c goes up to ROK (dep SYD 1500). This is to cycle the a/c for maintinence. On Mo We and Fri the a/c goes SYD-TSV-SYD (dep SYD 1445).

Eastwest Loco
15th Feb 2003, 10:35

Gabriel II is the best system I have ever used apart from Taarsan II.

Eenie weenie migrated to that after TN lost their happy thoughts about us and were actively tracking all our data.

Best all


Capt Claret
15th Feb 2003, 10:55
TAARSAN II was so good that when training for it 'on-line' through TAARSAN I, if one cracked the sh!ts and typed in something like "fark you", TAARSAN II replied with something like "now, now, don't be like that!" :}

Eastwest Loco
15th Feb 2003, 12:23
I knew a lot of the programmers that worked on Taarsan II Claret, and they had extremely good senses of humour for their genre.

I was on the 1st trainers course working 1700 to 0100 as they couldnt run the 494 and 1182 together at peak load times. It was interesting to say the least as we were still picking up errors and exceptions that hadnt been found. After 4 nights everyone paired off and did something totally primal with a member of the opposite sex just to retain some semblance of normality. It was very hard work, but the end system once it was switched on was a beaut. The mainframe is still around and may still be in use for QF Hols. Ut is definitely still in use with USAS checkin for the time being anyway.

You can keep your cheap and nasty IPARS systems for mine.

Cathay and Dragon and a host of Chinese carriers seem to be the only ones still delivering the signature 5 alpha numeric relocs these days.



15th Feb 2003, 23:02
There hasnt been any USAS checkin in the QF network for years now. USAS checkin changed to the Qube dcs system from memory the Easter weekend after the Taarsan/Qantam cutover to Qube. I agree that Taarsan was just the easiest most logical system to use and its a great shame its still not around. However if losing some SYDOOL availability for a couple of days is the most major thing that has happened since Amadeus then I would call that very successful given the potential for things to go wrong in such a large project.

Eastwest Loco
16th Feb 2003, 04:02
Must have cost them a motza though WW - I would be interested to have a play with the Amadeus base system to see what she can do. The interface with other GDS systems doe need improvement though. Availability displays over multiple sector port pairs on a class specific basis are atrocious.

I have been courted by Amadeus (and Gal) on several occasions,but am very happy with Sabre. Very user friendly database for an IPARS system so I will stay there for the time being.

The web based Sabre evoya seems to have most of the bugs removed now too and is nice and fast on ADSL.

Constant change is the way in this industry.

Best regards


Eastwest Loco
17th Feb 2003, 12:33
Not writing it off at all Noodle.

However, the decision o purchase was taken when all of the QF Airport operational managers were at a conference in he US,

The system is fine for what it is, and that is a hosting database designed for Euro carriers with minimal hubbing and very limited flights over particular sectors.

That is fine even for BA who seem to be a mover and shaker in this purchase, but it is currently totally inadequate for a carrier such as QF with up to six ways to get from A to B over multiple hubs and mini hubs.

There needs to be a significant amount of development before Amadeus comes anywhere near Qube or Qantam standards, and they are all lightyears behind Univac based systems.

Their day may well come though. I hope it is soon.

Best regards.


17th Feb 2003, 12:53

My eldest daughters mates father and his mate spent some time in the US some moons ago, writing the Sabre software code and it was I believe the grandfather of them all.

Aussies have a lot to be proud of as well as answer for :p

EWL what was/is it like.

Eastwest Loco
18th Feb 2003, 07:56
Capt Noodle

The opinion is mine, and I am talking about the Res, yield and CKIN side of things, not management systems or programming sides. My qualifications for this are simply that I have been using them since 1975 when I joined TN in Res on Taarsan I.

Since then I have been a user and trainer on Taarsan I & II, Gabriel II, Qantam, Ansamatic, Gallileo and had and have a working knowledge of BABS, Kriscom, Korean's system whatever the hell it is called and even Amtrak's system, most of the foreigners by osmosis.

I can also offload any passenger off any flight anywhere in the world should I see fit providing I have the name as per the original booking.

Also I believe there were a lot of very narked operations people when they heard of the sign-off.

My point is that the end user of the current Amadeus system is disadvantaged as multiple port pair availabilities are totally inadequate which is a sign of single hub euro origon. No doubt QF will address this as time goes on but for now, if one of my staff wishes to check availability of cheapest seats DPO MEL TSV, they have to check the 3 sectors individually, or book Y class and hope the Sabre system can find the cheapies on other flights.

However Capt N - Its what we have and we must learn to get the most out of it.

I actually think the decision to take on Amadeus was flawed, and this has been echoed by nearly every QF front end user from Airport to Yield Management and Res Seniors I have regular contact with. I will certainly give it time as the ex TN and QF systems crews have always been excellent at problem fixing and sys enhancement.

Also today I found more major problems with availability displays not showing available classes that were visible and bookable when one detoured into Qube directly.


For an IPARS system, Sabre is by far the best GDS system I have used. Have used Gal and been courted by Amadeus and find Sabre the most user friendly of the lot. The only drawback is the ticketing drive line for exchange tickets. It must be me because it is one of those things I just cannot get the logic or flow off. Thank God for clue cards.

The relative of a friend of a girlfriends second cousin (getting very Tasmanian there!!) would not have been the late Mr Jeffrey Brown would it? He was one of my corporate clients and a wonderful bloke. I know he was involved in the early development of Sabre (or Fantasia as it was then called in Australia).

Best regards