Ryanair pilots: Are you happy?(merged)

[pilotofjet]

After all the debate about poor lifestyles at easyJet, I had to ask the above question.Can lo-cost be a pleasant place to work? Do you have the same fatigue levels as us at easy?Is your lifestyle as disrupted as ours at easy?
Just been offered a slot with Ryanair so would appreciate honest answers.

[Obi Wan Kirk]

Whenyou first join you'll get messed around a lot by the training department and will probably take you around 2 months before you're finished. Why? Because of the fact they are hiring so many people and only have 1 sim and a limited number of instructors. Once you've got over that hurdle and tour on line it's good fun.

There is a very low turn over with pilots at Ryan Air and I've been told that if people leave they join outfits like Emirates. So if you plan on staying in Europe and you enjoy flying, Ryan Air is the place.

[Jet A1]

O.W.K. is correct in saying that FR is the place to be if you like Europe. When I got offered a job with them, I was told that I would have to up sticks and shoot off to any of their european bases for an undefined period of time as this was part of the contract ! I didnt fancy the suburbs of Brussels, High in the hills north of Milan, Deepest darkest forest SW of Frankfurt nor would I fancy a winter in Skavsta with a pint over £11 !! Worth bearing in mind cos when you sign the dotted line you wide open for being done over big style !! On the other hand, have camp bed will travel !!!

[AverageJoe]

The best airline I have worked for in Europe. The hours are 900 a year, but with no night stops, no night flying no messing about with rosters and a stable 5-3 I never feel tired. I would not leave Ryanair for anyone else in Europe at the moment.
Good Luck if you join us

[FlapsOne]

No night flying..........I fancy finishing at 3:30pm every day in December......where do I sign?

[KingArthur]

AverageJoe , although I have no doubt about your first statement that you have never worked in a better airline, the last statement shows either 1) ignorance or 2)masochism.
If it happens to be 1), I can provide you with a list of at least 50 airlines in Europe whit better salary, working hours, schedules, HR , crew meals you don't have to pay for and last but not least clean aircrafts to work on. If it is 2), enjoy, you must be on top of the world. :}

[ILUV2FLY]

Pilotofjet
Excellent pay, probably among best of Eu 737 crews
Excellent rosters,produced 4 weeks in adv with guaranteed
days off,fixed blocks of earlies and lates
Excellent aircraft,brand new 800's,with approx more than 100due
Excellent prospects,promotion to left seat(and left seat pay)
within 2/3yrs depending on joining hrs
Excellent people,great mix of guys&gals in ops and on line
Excellent share option scheme, up circa £100k in 2 yrs
Excellent pay inc last year, 3% up 6 months after 9/11

In summary things couldnt be better here right now.
Not sure how or if the buzz thing will affect us, but so far
theres no better airline in europe for crew t&c's.

King A. Sorry pal your just wrong.Be surprised if u can find one
(never mind 50)to match above.But feel free to try,am always
available if price is right here in europe.

[AverageJoe]

King Arthur I would be greatful, if you could provide me with the list of fifty airlines who pay better than Ryanair and have better conditions and who are currently hiring Captains. As I am not a masochist I must definitely be ignorant. But as the Scotish proverb says "It is better to be happy in your ignorance than miserable in your cognisance.":=

[DUNLOPS UP]

Can anyone tell me how long to a command? I have lots of jet command hours but no type rating and have to pay for the rating and join as an FO.

DD says about a year-18months.

[KingArthur]

Not a difficult task providing the names AverageJoe , as everybody on pprune knows. What should be more difficult is to meet the requirements to be hired.

[KADS]

JET A1 -

Everything you said is the god awful truth, except for the pint you mentioned. It really isn't that expensive. :cool:

Btw, just heard them flying into Skavsta today being quite embarrasing about braking action, but I'll leave it at that or I'll get Danny breathin' down my neck about FR-bashing.:=

[Aviation Trainer too]

King Arthur I think I am a fellow ppruner and I don't know so what is your list and what are the figures????

Claiming things is easy backing them up with real info is more difficult but more important!!!

[737man]

I hope you are right ILUV2FLY ! I resigned from an established UK company yesterday to take up a contract with Ryanair (800 Capt) It certainly looks like being VERY different but all the people I know working there seem to enjoy it!

[ILUV2FLY]

Welc0me onboard 737man.You're joining one of the best ops
for crew t&cs in europe.Rosters are best in the business,and
hope that good results means that pay and share ops will con-
tinue to rise.Hope the buzz thing doesnt disrupt our lot here,
but chat in ops last pm suggests that B will be kept separate.

Only one downside to FR is constantly having to read abuse on
pprune abt ryanair.Mindless and just plain wrong guff from King
Arthur is a perfect e.g. of what you should expect.He Still cant list 1 never mind 50 better eu airline crew operators for crew t&cs.
So put on the hard hat for pprune but otherwise.....enjoy!

Better still as a new recruit why not give all us ppruners your
view of fr life after a month or two.At least it'll be fact based
rather than King A's fiction.

[level254]

I would suggest you read between the lines in the thread "Ryanair and Buzz"

Ask the guys at Buzz if they want to join Ryanair...

:*

[pancho]

ILUV2FLY, Good man, great to see a happy pilot for a change! As regards FR bashing on pprune, just remember the words of Mr Oscar Wilde, there is only one thing worse than being talked about and thats not being talked about (and I know the FR boys and girls are well able to handle themselves):D

[brownstar]

glad to see so many people interested in Ryanair.
It is not all a bed of roses but i would say it's not bad. The people you fly with are generally nice, any problems that you may encounter will be related to the management side of things, but this is the same in any company.
Provided you accept you have no rights then you will fit in.
had to temper iluv2f lie's 'over optomism'.
best of luck

[steamchicken]

Looks like it's pistols at dawn between MOL and Jim McAuslan...

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,889112,00.html)
Mr O'Leary revealed that Buzz was likely to lose €30m (£20m) this year. He claimed his strategy would transform its fortunes within 12 months to produce a profit of €10m.

In a message that appalled unions, he said there was no question of negotiating: "There's no point in sugaring pills. This is losing shedloads of money and has to be turned round. We're not going to sit around having consultations or going through some laborious process. This is not stopping for anybody. For those who don't want to sign up to the project, the door's out there on the left."

At least 100 of Buzz's 500 staff will lose their jobs. The brand will disappear, to be swallowed up by Ryanair. Among the first routes to go will be Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt - all to "high cost" airports where planes take longer to turn around.

Mr O'Leary said Buzz's problems were attributable to its Dutch owner, KLM: "It got saddled by KLM with the ****tiest set of aircraft in the fleet, flying to ****ty airports and with a few too many employees for an airline carrying 2m passengers."

He said he was sure his plans would provoke "hell, brimfire and damnation" but insisted that if unions attempted to strike, he would "close down" the airline.

The British Airline Pilots' Association reacted with dismay. General secretary Jim McAuslan said he had asked for a meeting with Mr O'Leary. "However charismatic he may be, he is not above the law. You cannot go just hiring and firing people. And you don't motivate people by putting the fear of God into them."

The TGWU also expressed concern, emphasising its "strong determination to stand up for our members' rights in the face of robust warnings on job losses".

Ryanair disclosed its plans for Buzz alongside nine-month results showing that its own low-cost strategy continued to be a moneyspinner, with pre-tax profits up 60% to £216m.

But Buzz's demise caused particular gloom in Bournemouth, earmarked as its second base. Buzz had already sold 55,000 tickets for six destinations from the south coast town, which were due to begin on March 30.

Bournemouth airport's managing director, Glyn Jones, said he was "surprised" by Ryanair's decision, pointing out that the airport had built an extension to handle Buzz's flights. Christopher Chope, the local Conservative MP, said the airport's plans would be ruined.

[Bucking Bronco]

Averagejoe & Iluv2fly

How about...

applying to an airline that gave you travelling expenses to interviews,

an airline that pays for all your training,

an airline that has different fleets long/short haul to allow you to chose your lifestyle,

an airline that gives you a bidding system that allows you to chose which days you work and where you fly to,

an airline that feeds you when you're at work,

an airline that allows you to go part time if you need to look after your children/other interests

an airline that matches any charitable contrubutions you give from your salary slip

an airline that gives you a bloody good pension

the list goes on...

:O

[AJ]

yes, the list of airlines with bloated costs and loss-making strategies does indeed go on....

Do you fly for Ryanair Bucking Bronco ? If not, pipe down and allow the rest of us to make our own decisions. Ryanair is a low-cost operator, not British Airways - probably the reason why it is curently making lots of money, and looking a very attractive proposition to those of us willing to put some thought into the future of European aviation......which I doubt, by the way, will include all of the benefits you list above....

[YouNeverStopLearning]

BALPA

NEWS RELEASE
For immediate release: 11 September 2002

RYANAIR: IN DANGER OF LOSING LICENCE TO FLY

Pilots working for Ryanair are receiving conflicting advice about how many hours they should fly and today the British Air Line Pilots' Association (BALPA) wrote to the Chief Pilot at Ryanair demanding clarification.
Graham Fowler, Deputy General Secretary of BALPA said pilots faced uncertainty, and uncertainty does not make for a safe situation.
He said: 'Ryanair has told its pilots that the Irish Aviation Authority has agreed with the company on a change in the way flying hours are counted (to a fixed year, April 1 to March 31, in effect disregarding all hours flown up to and including March 31).
'However, the Irish Aviation Authority has told Ryanair pilots that there is no such agreement with the airline and pilots should continue counting flying hours on a rolling 12 month period.
'The Irish Aviation Authority has confirmed this to BALPA.
'We are asking the Chief Pilot at Ryanair to clarify the situation. There is a danger that by switching to a fixed year period pilots would be scheduled by the airline to fly more than the 900 hours a year limit. 'The limit is a vital element of the rules which govern pilot hours to ensure they are properly rested and fit to fly.
'Ryanair must do as the Irish Aviation Authority has ruled. If it does not, it stands in danger of having its licence to fly withdrawn.'

For further information contact Ken Stevens or Keith Bill on 020 7924 7555

[YouNeverStopLearning]

I have it from the horse’s mouth that Ryanair cabin crew trainees are being “passed” on their courses even though they cannot swim.

An eye witness, a very close friend, has personally seen recruits who cannot swim being “allowed” to pass the swimming / rescue section of the course.

Is this acceptable?

Danny, we wouldn’t bash Ryanair if there were nothing to bash about.

No smoke without fire.

[737man]

Great stuff here, but as someone who has been an airline pilot since 1974 I have made the decision to join the infamous Ryans and get away from the traditional non-substainable airline scene. In doing so I also expect to make a considerable gain in nett income!

[IcePack]

Did BALPA get a reply?:}

[Carruthers]

Doubt it, I'm sure Mr O will wonder what it has to do with them.

[Carruthers]

Any old stick will do heh. Perhaps someone can tell us all when a hostie last save a life through being able to swim. Incidentally, you don't have to swim to join the navy.

[Unwell_Raptor]

If it's true (and I note the comments above) why not pass the facts to the authorities?

[Soddit]

Presumably the Amateur Swimming Association?:D Err, where in the Irish Legislation governing Public Transport of Passengers is swimming prowess specified..

[Bucking Bronco]

AJ

"Do you fly for Ryanair Bucking Bronco ? If not, pipe down and allow the rest of us to make our own decisions."
??????????

The q's I asked where directed at 2 people who believed that FR was so good that they wouldn't go anywhere else. There are other, better options I believe. No company is perfect but at the end of the day I would rather work for one that didn't screw its own employees so that it could subsidise passengers.

BTW I have friends that work for FR and they like it, but like I say it's not for me and it might not be for others out there. I, for one, enjoy my nightstops.

AJ I take it then seeing as you are putting your oar in that you work for Ryanair?

All the best

BB

[Flapsfull]

Just out of curiosity - what is the fuel policy within Ryanair? Who has the last say? Snow sweeping at a place like ESKN might need a little bit of extra juice.

[ILUV2FLY]

We should change all ryanair posts on pprune and title them all
''SEND IN THE CLOWNS'' in this case Bucking Buffoon & Ynsl.
So here goes boys....lessons for idiots part 5
I prefer working for an airline where the crews come first,
-rosters out 4 weeks in advance and days off guaranteed
-block of earlies foll by 2 off followed by block of lates then 3 off
-no overnights
-brand new a/c with 100 more on the way
-rapid promotion and rapid pay inc's.You make l/h seat in 2 yrs
-pay better than any other 737 operator in europe
-monthly sector chq of approx £1800 into my hand
-share options that have risen in value by over £100k
-oh and a 3%pay inc last april and again in 3 months time
So bucking idiot,when your wonderful employer were matching
your charity contribution were they also matching the fr package
as above? Or were they just making 5000 people redundant?
Tell me b.b. how big was your pay inc last year? this year?

Finally b.b...horses mouth? More like horses ass in your case?
Did balpa get any reply last sept....apart from F.O! from fr pilots!

[Square Wheels]

Bronco,

As someone who doesn't work for Ryanair or for the great BA gravy train, I can only look at your points in wonder and I would be bloody happy working for either. HOWEVER...

If you really wanted to work for an airline, who gives a monkey's about £100 travelling expenses. Would you turn an interview down on those principles??

If you don't want to waste your life sitting 6 miles up for 12 hours at a go with your thumb up your butt, then what difference does it make if there's the choice of longhaul or not?

If all the routes are roughly the same length and you want to be "home" every night, then does it really matter which piece of tarmac you fly to?

Feeds you while you work... As someone who works for a part of "the world's favourite "free" sandwich provider" I can easily pick up better than crew food at the local petrol station for £5 and take it to work.

I agree with you on the pension, but are there many jobs you can go to where you will get Final Salary any more?

I also agree that training should be paid for by the airline and requested days off are nice. No question there.

At the end of the day, you choose what you want out of life.
I'd be more than happy earning more money than I could shake a stick at with BA shorthaul, but when you're not eligible simply because you fly a turboprop, and are looking for bigger, noisier and more stable jobs at the moment, there really isn't much choice other than Ryan or EZ at the moment!!!!!

Yes, I'm just envious all round!

[Config]

On that note, I am at the moment considering between EasyJet and Ryanair. Can someone give me an unbiased opinion?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

What exactly is the FR roster pattern. Is it 5 on 3 off ad infinitum, or 5 on 3 off, 4 on 2 off.

If it is the latter, it means you work the same days each fortnight. Good if you're days off fall at the weekend; but if not, you'll never see another weekend off in your career.

Which one is it?

(p.s this asn't a bash , just a question from a buzz pilot)

[pilotofjet]

plenty of people leaving easy to go to Ryan but none the other way round. Does that help?

[flarepath]

Can anybody help please?
I currently fly for KLC uk ltd but have a bid to transfer to Buzz (Ryanair?). I note that there is a general outline of T&C's on Ryanair homepage but would be grateful if someone could give me the low down on the exact deal.
Here's what I'm after:

1. Basic salary for F/O and Captain

2. Sector pay (how much and is it different for Captain and F/O's)

3. More gen on what the pension offers

4. What are the share options

5. Limits on flight hours

6. Is there a requirement to live within a certain travelling time of STN with regards to standbys

7. What exactly is the roster pattern

8. What type of bond does FR use if any

9. What is the deal with payment of sector pay (is it cash in hand or in payslip and how much has to go to the Gordon Brown Pension Fund)

10. Is it possible to request Days off for kids birthdays wedding anniversaries etc

Any other info you can think of which may be of help

My e-mail address should be at the bottom of this post.

Many thanks for your help

[Ryanairpilot]

hi flarepath

1) for f/o UK i believe up to £29k (but there are many divisions). capts Uk c£49k.

2) in the UK you can reasonably account for £2000 per month. the sector pay for new f/os is stepped but full sector pay for f/o and capt is identical.

3) embarassed to say not sure, but understand it's not brilliant but not expensive for what it is.

4) up until now £10000 worth anually at a strike price as at june/july. doesn't cost anything.

5) standard 900/year. last 2 years i've done about 850/year.

6) 1 hours travelling time from base.

7) 5 earlies 3 off, 5 lates 3 off ad infinitum. although there is the proviso that you may only have 2 days off but that can only happen 6 times per year max. and must be earlies on to lates. roster issued 4 weeks in advance, every week (very stable).

8) no idea i'm afraid if you're coming from buzz.

9)sector pay comes as a cheque net of tax. p60 for gordon comes with all correct figures after 6 april.

10) yep, either as leave or, probably easier due to the roster, with a swop.

FR has its detractors - especially on this forum. i'm not saying its perfect - far from it, but its good steady work. equally as professional as the 2 other airlines i have worked for.

upside - home every night, good people, good pay, (reasonably) secure employment.

downside - ropey management style, long hours (and before anybody hijacks this, i'm not talking about fatigue - the roster works).

i'm not management, just a cog-in-the-wheel line captain. i can't say it's the best job in the world, but it's a very, very long way from the worst.

also this is a personal view. others may differ.

(edited for tax stupidity!)

[ramsrc]

I have to say that I find it interesting that people find they need to resort to personal insults in order to back their arguments up.

Perhaps it isn't Bucking Bronco who should be piping down...

[Bucking Bronco]

Iluv2fly (off the handle)

If I may take each of your points from your outburst in turn…

- Rosters. It's nice to know that you have rosters 4 weeks in advance. At my company we have a bidding system where we can work which days we want to and as of 4th of feb I knew what was on my roster until 4th of april. If you're working blocks of 5 days of day trips followed by 3 days off ad infinitum what use is a roster?

- Blocks of earlies followed by lates. An excellent way of doing things, somebody in crewing obviously has heard of circadian rhythmic lag.

- No overnights. That's great for you as that is obviously your preference, I on the other hand being young and single like being paid to lie on a beach, go on safari, ski or stroll around a foreign city. At my company you have the option to work whichever patterns suit you.

- Brand new a/c. Fantastic, we've got some A321s on order as well but this doesn't really demonstrate whether an airline places its crews first.

- Rapid promotion. Yes an enviable trait of any expanding airline, but quick commands have been dished out at my company too (away from main base) – and 2 years was the length of service required.

- Pay. Shorthaul Captain's Basic salary in my company pp1 £54k - pp24 £102.3k, add variable pay onto this of between £8k and £20k per year.

- Share options. Yes yours have way outstripped ours and also we were capped at the same investment rate as other employees, yours wins hands down. I hope, for you that it will continue but doubt whether it can maintain the performance it has done recently.

- Pay inc. Last year I got a £4k rise in basic, this year I'm looking forward to a £10k rise in basic. Pay alone though does not demonstrate how much your company values you.

- Package. Yes your package is good if you look at salary and your share options but that seems about it. Ours is also a reasonable package but also has a final salary pension scheme which is currently allowing guys who crystalised to retire on six figure pensions. Also we have private healthcare, worldwide staff travel, the opportunity for part time work, training costs met by the company and the list goes on…

Honestly I don't know why you're getting all worked up for? I hope that when you're at work your fuse is a little longer and you don't resort to rants and name calling if someone's opinion differs from yours.

In my post I was pointing out that there are other operators out there who, in my opinion offer a better deal than FR. That's why I am where I am and probably why you are where you are – it comes down to personal choice and opportunity.


Kind Regards

Bucking Bronco


:O

Square wheels

You shouldn't have to pay for interview/application costs it's that simple! Which other companies/industries does this happen in? And yes I would turn down an interview if they asked me for any money, it's something I feel very strongly about as you can see on the following thread…

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80244

If you're not fussed about longhaul then you're right it doesn't matter whether the operator offers it or not – again personal choice.

With respect to crew food, at FR if you worked 200 days a year then that £5/day adds up to £1000.

BA is starting to make noises about hiring DEPs again; requirements, as you know, do vary according to market forces.

If I was out there I'd consider all the options (FR being one of them) at the end of the day I posted in reply to a couple of other chaps who said that FR was the bees knees – I disagree.

All the best

BB


:p

[flarepath]

Ryanairpilot:
Many sincere thanks for your help and also putting it in a language that I can understand!!
It's made the decision a lot easier for me. It must be nice to have a correct P60 at the end of the year, they haven't got mine right yet!
To everyone else:
I think it is useful to have frank and open views aired as it can show whether the grass really is greener on the other side of the fence or just dry and parched! At the end of the day one man's light chop is another's heavy turbulence.
BB:
May your cocktails be cold and fruity! I am quite happy with my armchair and a whiskey that I know hasn't been watered down :D

[Scando]

Recent reports in the media here, from an ex FR pilot, says FR operate a system of "marks". Carry too much fuel, and you get a mark. Go sick, and you get a mark. After a certain number of marks, you get fired.
3 months notice if they want to fire you, but you also have to sign an agreement saying they can send you on unpaid leave any time they want to. So, if the want to terminate you, you get 3 months unpaid leave, and out.
Comments?

[Wig Wag]

Scando, see my last post at:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=75688

My source was a current Ryanair pilot. The system you describe is positively venal. The rationale behind having an independantly licensed Captain in total conrtol of the aircraft is safety. Safety decisions must be made in total objectivity. I know, from my own experience as a Captain, that some airlines would like to take more control over some of the decisions in the cockpit. It is wrong for them to attempt to do this and weak of the regulator not to stand up to airline commercial pressures.

The more we let commercial pressures overide safety the more we open the industry up to a crippling major accident.

[Metal Mickey]

I notice the Ryanair online application process details a selection of bases - is there a choice?

[Scando]

This pilot left Ryanair after 6 months. He made the allegations under full name.Sorry, link in Norwegian only (http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?art=6472)
He says there is an unofficial reporting system in place, to deal with "troublesome pilots".

As to the rest you are saying, I cannot agree more.

[Brookmans Park]

Tto the best of my knowledge the last time that a cabin crew member rescued a pax by swimming was around 1979 when a dan Air Bae 748 over-ran the r/w @LSI. a lovely lady. who I think got some thingl like an MBE for her SUPERB efforts there are many airports where similar accidents could happen DO NOT BE COMPLECENT -BECAUSE IT HAS NOT HAPPENED, MEANS THAT IT PROBABLY SOON WILL

[Clear right!]

Bucking Bronco wrote;

- Package. Yes your package is good if you look at salary and your share options but that seems about it. Ours is also a reasonable package but also has a final salary pension scheme which is currently allowing guys who crystalised to retire on six figure pensions. Also we have private healthcare, worldwide staff travel, the opportunity for part time work, training costs met by the company and the list goes on…

I wouldn't shout to loudly about your pension.

a/ New DEP's don't get a FS pension. So in future years they're not going to be bothered whether existing pilots with FS keep them or lose them. Someones going to lose out.

b/ I'll eat my shoe if anyone under 40 in BA sees a FS pension on the scale of the old ones.

Not criticising as I'd like to work for BA, just being realistic.

However I digress, back to Ryanair!

[Bucking Bronco]

Clear Right

Yep, BA has stated that its withdrawing the FS pension to new joiners. BALPA and current members aren't happy about that but can't do a thing until the 1st DEP/TEP joins on Money Purchase - then watch this space. I hope it will be a bloody good advert for BALPA.

At the end of the day its a sad indictment on many UK companies that were only too happy to take pension contributions holidays when things were great. Problem is they're not taking the long term view which you have to when looking at markets.

Anyway back to Ryanair...

Cheers

BB

[Ryanairpilot]

The captains decision on fuel is final. if you think you require extra fuel for weather/holding/any good reason under the sun, you take it. no questions. what's not encouraged is launching off with 2 tonnes more than you need just because you feel like it. all it is, is common sense. and you don't get fired for it.

[Black Fire]

I just have to mention what happened to Mrs Ann Helen Eriksson, former Marketing & Sales Manager Nordic Countries with RyanAir. A couple weeks before christmas-02 she was put on sick leave due to, what we in Sweden refer to as "Burnedoutness", caused by stress and an unhappy working environment. When she had recovered and returned to her job 3!!!! weeks later she was fired "on standing foot". At that point she was nothing worth. Who now has her job??? No less than Mr Goodjet himself, Reidar Svedahl. Good luck Reidar.............

[Wrutrow]

Any chance a Yank with dual Irish citizenship, 4500+ total time, former US Navy pilot (2300+ hrs), B-737 type rating and 1400+ hrs in type, B-727, MD-80 time and employment with two major US airlines could be a player at Ryanair? Thought I'd throw out the question for inputs before I start JAA hoop-jumping.

Waitingfortheaxetofallatmypresentgig,

Wrutrow

[AverageJoe]

Wrutrow, I think that is not a problem, we have a few Americans flying with us, Dublin, Luton and yesterday I bump in to one in Stansted just came from Easy Jet and he was doing his Safety Course. Try to contact the IAA for licencing issues their web site is www.iaa.ie and then speek to Decklan Dooney recruitment manager office no +35318121409
Good Luck
John :O

[Tags]

I don't fly for either FR or BA but I know pilots who fly for both companies, and as has been said before on this thread.....it is horses for courses.

Aside from that, BB put across his point of view, now on the other hand ILUV2FLY just ranted and berated like an immature schoolchild!!!! Just an observation!!!!

[BIGMACH]

When considering the package. Don't forget that a share option scheme is worth JACK until the money is in your bank account.

Didn't Ryanair sign up to the 5 year deal because they thought it was in the company's interest? (Not the pilots)

Does anyone think that it should be cheaper to fly in a brand new aeroplane, crewed by qualified professionals and maintained by equally qualified professionals, from London to Europe AND BACK! than it should be to park your car for one hour at Stansted?

[eng123]

BIGMACH,[Or is it BIGMOUTH?,Depending on your response]
Are you trying to say that the maintenance staff are not qualified or somehow substandard?
Come to mention it,are you trying to say the same of the flight crew?What is your point?Pls spell it out as I'm not clear.

[overdoverover]

Config, don't come to easyJet unless you really have to, it's pants!

[Config]

overdoverover - Thanks for that. You haven't really explained yourself, but don't worry, I have made my mind up to stay away from an orange life. The very least I could have been told that my application had been received! That's just the start of it.

I hear they are not recruiting DE Captains at the moment anyway. (But they didn't tell me that!)

PS...Sorry to stray from the thread...

[hujeorgan]

The IPA salary tables suggest that the Ryanair guys are on a final salary pension !!? If so then it's worth a lot. It would seem that Monarch are closing theirs to new entrants, not many left.

[BIGMACH]

eng 123.

I'm trying to say that both have become undervalued in the drive to make flying cheap - too cheap, and for the benefit of whom? Not the car park attendants!

[eng123]

BIGMACH,
I don't see that flying CAN become too cheap.We have all been ripped off for years with over-inflated prices,RYR,EASY etc have shown us all that air fares,if booked early enough,can be affordable FOR ALL.
I felt that you were implying that RYR was making these fares available only because they were cutting corners in other area's which is not the case.

[HotBus]

Sure they're cheap, but that doesn't absolve them from at least some customer service responsibility- contrary to what they seem to think. Had my flight last weekend cancelled due to fog at Stansted. Delays I understand and don't mind- but surely a public transport scheduled carrier ought to be obliged to offer the service for which they have sold tickets, even if it does upset their program. Take my advice- pay the extra and go easy or BA!

Their customer service (!) agent advised us to try to book on tomorrow's flight- which was full... Utterly useless.:rolleyes:

[eng123]

HotBus,
So it's RYR's fault that it was foggy is it?! Do you not think that BA/Easy or anyone else would also have canx their flight's given the same conditions?
RYR do operate Cat 3 a/c you know!

[Lazlo]

eng123,

Read Hotbus's post again. He was complaining about the complete lack of customer service from Ryanair. Of course it is not their fault that there was fog. However, what Hotbus was complaining about was the fact that Ryanair made absolutely no effort to get him onto a later flight (once the wx had lifted). Another airline, such as BA, would have you on the next available flight, usually within 24 hours. And if you had to wait around a while there would be a hotel room in the deal for you as well.

This is the main problem with low-cost airlines. The paying passenger in general doesn't realise that this is the drawback to flying on them and therefore when things do go wrong they are in for a big surprise. This is one of the reasons why low-cost airlines are so low-cost. You get what you pay for. Most customers will not suffer the consequences of a cancelled flight, but those who do (such as Hotbus) will simply fly with BA next time.

Lazlo

[HotBus]

eng 123,

Of course its not RYR's fault there were delays due to fog. But surely they shouldn't be able to arbitarily cancel flights that look like they will be inconvenient to operate?

When 26L/08R Lgw was resurfaced every night two summers ago, our CAT 3B capability meant nothing- all that was available was an SRA down to 1000'. Crap wx meant all the charter boys getting in at 4am :ugh: were diverting all over the place (all summer long). Yet my company cancelled not one flight, even though the punctuality stats went off the chart...

If RYR are making such good profits on such small margins, perhaps they should bite the bullet and cough up for a subcharter when it all goes pearshaped.

[Land ASAP]

So it's RYR's fault that it was foggy is it?! Do you not think that BA/Easy or anyone else would also have canx their flight's given the same conditions?
RYR do operate Cat 3 a/c you know!

I hear the 737-200's you have are all CAT 1!

By the way, other carriers make tactical cancellations due to decreased movement rates when LVP's are in force. They then reschedule pax onto other flights or provide compensation or hotel rooms. A long way from, "Sorry, your flight is cancelled now f**k off".

OLeeryAir are a 'Value' brand. Devoid of poncey brand identity (BA) other than the fact that you get to somewhere in Europe for the price of hardback book it appears too good to be true. Like the 'blue and white striped goods' at Tescos, you may one day think, "Well they are only spaghetti hoops and they're 16p a can!". You buy them and realise after sampling it why you won't do so again.

Serious and founded allegation bit.

They chip at the boundaries of Flight Time Limitations, they demonise Union representation so that those who feel safety is compromised can be summarily dismissed without recourse (Non Union clause in Employment Contract)

That's why I bash Ryanair. Now would anyone like some Spaghetti on toast for tea?

[batty]

As a point of fact of the 737-200 are all Cat 2 or 3, most Cat 3. Some are occasionally Cat 1 due servisability limitations or crew limitations.

I guess high cost airlines are all allways Cat 3!!!

Get your facts right befor spouting off please!!!!:yuk:

PS Walking through Stanstead today I heard a BA flight to Manchester cancelled due to technical reasons....does that mean they are all Cat 0.....

[Wrecker1973]

No CAT 2 actually, used it this morning. Probably the ATP knackered as usual!!!!!

Good old british engineering!!!

[Take the Visual]

I think the most important issues have been skipped here. Ryan Air will squeeze every last drop out of everything to increase profit. .... and that means pilots too.

900 hours a year, maybe upto 1200 with some dodgy accounting. A :yuk: pension based on virtually half your pay. Share options which no one can trust. Open ended contracts. No leave when you want it. Days long and frequent enough to make you think you are a long haul pilot. Crew resources so thin on the ground you'll get no respect from overworked 'support staff'. And if anythin goes wrong you are on your own.... try telling the family you just got demoted or sacked because the arrogant cadet (190 hrs!)you were flying with just screwed up and theres no one to pay the mortgage now. Sure you might even fly a nice aircraft but i heard that some 800 Captains are being pushed back onto the 200.

oh yeah ... if anyone spouting purely how great it all is must be management!! .... ' i luv to fly ' take note!:=

[brownstar]

Take The Visual

I was reading your post there and just had to reply. You have obviously been in the company a while, i guessed you had your 'angry head' on when you wrote this, it did make me laugh though. It was a laugh of empathy though, you hit the nail EXACTLY on the head.
For anyone reading this, i would guess Take the visual has seen the company change from a great little outfit to a large company that is prepared to mess everyone about for the sake of profit!

I luv to fly - tell me it isn't so, if you dare !

[Goforfun]

A friend of mine recently returned from Antigua on BA- the a/c was tech and a long delay of around 36hr was a result. BA treated the pax badly- no apologies-hotel or compensation at the time was offered.

Just because Ryanair are low cost- doesn't mean they treat pax like crap- nor easyJet etc.

[Take the Visual]

Right then 'go for fun'..... Have you seen the cabin crew at Ryan Air? They have an eighty percent turnover... that is they are treated like dirt, worked to the bone and therefore 80 percent either resign or are sacked EVERY year. Why? because its cheaper by not paying pensions or long term benefits.
The only JAR rule applied to them is minimum rest. As a result they are 18 year old pissed off school children. And you want them to :D at you too! You try flying >150 hours a month. (c.crew)
Low fares management strategy means low standards of service. Why .... cos they are savin money.....'n cos we are all knackered!!! simple as that. All Nigel has to do is worry about the freshness of his crew meal and which hostie he'll try it on with on the night stop. ... oh yes nigel do you ever know proper RT procedure!! Stop waffling you spoilt brat.
Apparently thier pilots are even told to leave without bags rather than take a delay if the bags are late.:}
Easy jet and Buzz welcome to the world of REAL business. I pity us all. Good luck to all who manage to get a real job in a career airline. God only hopes that O'leary wont have conquered the world before i can. Bring it on you bags of air. :} .... I think i am going for a sit down now. :*