Shuttle Columbia breaks up during re-enry

[Danny]

Mission control have had a total loss of communication with the space shuttle Columbia since 1400 UTC, just before it was due to land at Kennedy Space Centre in Florida.

CNN are running shots of the shuttle at high altitude over Texas with a contrail and several smaller pieces also contrailing.

Pure speculation but pictures show what appears to be a very high speed, in-flight break up of Columbia. It doesn't look good.

Break-up occured at an altitude of approximately 200,000ft and a speed of over 12,000 mph.

[PCav8or]

Just heard on CNN that Mission Control in Houston has lost contact with the Space Shuttle over Texas. It was due to land at 0916 EST. Hope things are not as ominous as the reporters are making it out to be.

[RadAlt]

CNN now reporting NASA declaring an emergency.Several warnings giving not to touch or stay clear of any debris found in the Texas area!

Very sad indeed...

[birdstrike]

A very sad reminder that what we now regard as routine is in fact incredibly dangerous, and with little chance of survival if anything goes wrong.

[Max Angle]

Was watching on NASA TV via the internet, last comms. at 0800 (1400 gmt). Search and rescue crews in the Dallas FW area have been scrambled. Public bieng to told to avoid any debris due to toxic chemicals etc. This is going to be NASA's darkest day since the Challenger accident.

[sss]

for crew of one of the ultimate flying jobs,

RIP

[Konkordski]

Hearing reports of an impact in Palestine (Texas) - how ironic would that be?

[stargazer02]

Just watching the news and yes it doesn't look good at all.
multiple high altitude contrails.....
I guess that might be the end of the program:confused:

[RiverCity]

We have the NASA channel on our cable system. It's such a shock to see the break-up this morning, after having watched the astronauts, direct from the shuttle last night, during this mission. May their souls be at peace.

[Tigs2]

Totally Tragic.
Rest In Peace

[MightyGem]

Very sad. I heard recently that it only needs to lose 3 of the heat resistant tiles on re-entry to cause a break up. Not a great margin if that's true.

I don't think it'll be the end of the program though.

[Danny]

Profile of the Clumbia crew.

Source: Fox News/AP (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77254,00.html)

Commander Rick Husband has just one other spaceflight under his belt and already he's flying as commander. That's a rarity.

"I think a lot of it has to do with being in the right place at the right time, for starters," says Husband, 45, an Air Force colonel from Amarillo, Texas.

The former test pilot was selected as an astronaut in 1994 on his fourth try. He made up his mind as a child that that was what he was going to do with his life.

"It's been pretty much a lifelong dream and just a thrill to be able to get to actually live it out," he says.

Another lifelong passion: singing.

Husband, a baritone, has been singing in church choirs for years. He used to sing in barbershop quartets, back during his school days.

------

Pilot William McCool says one of the most nerve-racking parts of training for this scientific research mission was learning to draw blood -- from others.

Columbia's two pilots are exempted from invasive medical tests in orbit, like blood draws. That means he and his commander have to draw blood from their crewmates.

McCool felt bad practicing on NASA volunteers.

"I didn't want to inflict pain," he recalls. "We weren't really gathering science, so everything that they were going through was for my benefit, and I guess I felt bad a little bit."

The 41-year-old Navy commander, a father of three sons, graduated second in his 1983 class at the Naval Academy. He went on to test pilot school and became an astronaut in 1996. This is his first spaceflight.

McCool grew up in Lubbock, Texas.

------

Payload commander Michael Anderson loves flying, both in aircraft and spacecraft, but he dislikes being launched.

It's the risk factor. "There's always that unknown," he says.

Anderson, 43, the son of an Air Force man, grew up on military bases.

"I was always fascinated by science-fiction shows, shows like 'Star Trek' and 'Lost in +Space+,"' he says. "And going out of your house and looking up and seeing jets fly by, that seemed like another very exciting thing to do. So I knew I wanted to fly airplanes, and I knew I wanted to do something really exciting, and I always had a natural interest in science.

"So it all kind of came together at a very young age, and I thought being an astronaut would be the perfect job."

Anderson was flying for the Air Force when NASA chose him in 1994 as one of only a handful of black astronauts. He traveled to Russia's Mir space station in 1998.

He is now a lieutenant colonel and in charge of Columbia's dozens of science experiments. His home is Spokane, Wash.

------

When Kalpana Chawla emigrated to the United States from India in the 1980s, she wanted to design aircraft. The space program was the furthest thing from her mind.

"That would be too far-fetched," says the 41-year-old engineer. But "one thing led to another," and she was chosen as an astronaut in 1994 after working at NASA's Ames Research Center and Overset Methods Inc. in Northern California.

On her only other spaceflight, in 1996, Chawla made a pair of mistakes that sent a science satellite tumbling out of control. Two other astronauts had to go out on a spacewalk to capture it.

"I stopped thinking about it after trying to figure out what are the lessons learned, and there are so many," she says. "After I had basically sorted that out, I figured it's time to really look at the future and not at the past."

She realizes some may see this flight as her chance to redeem herself.

------

David Brown is a Navy novelty: He's both a pilot and a doctor. He's also probably the only NASA astronaut to have worked as a circus performer.

Brown was a varsity gymnast at the College of William and Mary when he got a phone call one day: Would he like to join the circus? So during the summer of 1976, he was an acrobat, tumbler, stilt walker and 7-foot unicycle rider.

"What I really learned from that, and transfers directly to what I'm doing on this crew, is kind of the team work and the safety and the staying focused, even at the end of a long day when you're tired and you're doing some things that may have some risk to them."

He joined the Navy after his medical internship and went on to fly the A-6E Intruder and F-18. His current rank is captain.

NASA chose him as an astronaut in 1996. This is his first spaceflight; he will help with all the experiments.

Brown, 46, is taking up a flag from Yorktown High School in Arlington, Va., his alma mater, that another graduate took up Mount Everest. "I'm going to get it a little bit higher up, but I won't have to walk as far to get it there."

------

Laurel Clark, a Navy physician who worked undersea, likens the numerous launch delays to a marathon in which the finish line keeps moving out five miles.

"You've got to slow back down and maintain a pace," she says.

The 41-year-old Clark was a diving medical officer aboard submarines and then a naval flight surgeon. She became an astronaut in 1996.

Her family, including her 8-year-old son, worry sometimes about her being an astronaut. But she tells everyone "what an aggressive safety program we have."

"To me, there's a lot of different things that we do during life that could potentially harm us and I choose not to stop doing those things," she notes. "They've all come to accept that it's what I want to do."

She will help with Columbia's science experiments, which should have flown almost two years ago.

Her home is Racine, Wis.

------

Ilan Ramon, a colonel in Israel's air force, is the first Israeli to be launched into space.

"For Israel and for the Jewish community, it's something beyond being in space," he says. "It's a very symbolic mission."

His mother and grandmother survived the Auschwitz death camp, and his father was a Zionist who fought for Israel's statehood alongside his own father. The astronaut also fought for his country, in the Yom Kippur War in 1973 and the Lebanon War in 1982.

"I was born in Israel as an Israeli, so I'm kind of a dream fulfillment for all this last-century generation," he says.

Ramon, 48, served as a fighter pilot during the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s, flying F-16s and F-4s. He was promoted in 1994 to lead Israel's department of operational requirement for weapon development and acquisition. He was selected as his country's first astronaut in 1997 and moved to Houston in 1998 to train for a shuttle flight.

He and his wife, Rona, have four children and call Tel Aviv home.

Source: Fox News/AP (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77254,00.html)

To try and head off some of the wilder speculation, this is being considered as an 'ageing aircraft' problem rather than a terrorist problem. The Shuttle Columbia (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/columbia.html) was the oldest, first launched in 1981 and was on the 27th mission out of an expected 100 mission capability.

[Used Ink]

Very sad loss of life, deepest sympathies to all families and friends.

[DuckDogers]

A tragic loss not only to the families of the crew but to the future of mankind.........

Alpha

Mike

Foxtrot

[ORAC]

Used Ink, gratuitous bile. I'd recommend you delete it. You know it's offensive, otherwise you wouldn't have apologised for it.

My most profound condolences to the families of those involved.

They died doing what they loved.

[Gingerbread Man]

Here here, ORAC.

My sincere condolences to the families of the crew, also.
:( A terrible thing to happen to a group of people doing something they waited their whole lives to be able to do - flying in space. It is a shame that we seem to have become complacent when it comes to shuttle missions and we have forgotten what a truly great achievement human space flight is. I dearly hope lessons are learned from this accident so that this tragedy was not entirely in vain, and that our ambition to explore space continues despite this awful loss.

Regards,
a deeply unhappy Gingerbread Man :( .

[Jackonicko]

Radio 4 interviewed Ramon's brother who revealed that the former F-16 jock flew on the Osirak raid as No.8. He must have had a few good stories to tell, as would the others. What a shame that none of them will be coming back to tell us this one.

[Waddock Hunt]

With regard as to whether this is the end of the shuttle program - I know of a few guys who are currently up on the International Space Station who sincerely hope that this isn't!!!!

[ORAC]

It may be apposite to start a thread on that subject. I known that the limited number of shuttles makes the ISS timetable extremely fraught. There is also the fact that the US funded supply of Soyuz return vehicles is running out and no further can be funded due to legislation.

This may result in a re-assessment of the cancellation of the X-33 programme.

[Smoketoomuch]

Those on board the ISS will, I think, be returning by Soyuz capsule. Can't see a shuttle flying for a year or two.
Can Soyuz or Progress boost the ISS orbit as it decays?

[Used Ink]

Point taken ORAC.

Just trying to add a little. Perhaps too soon.

Apologies to those offended.

This should remind us though, to have a good walk round before you take your machine flying. (reports of wing damage on take off, reported as O.K. by mission control)

[A Civilian]

I seem to remember something to do with an operational escape capsule (well a space ship really) in the ISS for just such an occurance.

What a day :(

[BlueWolf]

A tragic loss of seven of the very finest. Sincere condolences to all family and friends; and a salute to those who have slipped these surly bonds one final time.

Regards

RP

[Shackman]

My condolences to the families of all those that died on Columbia today. May their loss not be in vain, and I hope Columbia II will rise from the ashes to take the programme forward.

Rest In Peace

[BossEyed]

Used Ink: The damage to the wing (not yet positively determined as a cause, or even factor, in the accident, we should remember) occurred after launch, not prior to it. You are therefore maligning the crew, and NASA launch support staff, with your unwarranted comment.

The Mission Commander, Rick Husband, has a UK background and the loss of all crewmembers will perhaps be felt even more keenly on the Eastern side of the Atlantic because of this.

The manned space programme has always, to me, felt like a worldwide endeavour - albeit mostly funded by the US. I find that this makes the loss feel to be a truly international one as opposed to simply a US and Israeli tragedy.

As well as condolences to the families, we should also remember those aboard the ISS who will no doubt be feeling the loss with particular hardship.

RIP, all these pioneers.

[SASless]

NASA noted the possiblility of wing damage in light of the insulation that blew off the craft during launch. Techical analysis of the film was inconclusive they report....they also noted there is no way to confirm that damage if any while in orbit and more importantly...."there is no way to repair any such damage to the tiles....sufficient redundancy has been built into the structure to prevent loss of the the thermal integrity...."....thus they felt no need to pursue the matter further. This issue will no doubt be reviewed. They noted they accepted the risk of such events and reported the operating environment was designed to prevent damage to the tiled area of the aircraft.

It is regrettable ...but sometimes when you walk on the thin edge...sometimes things happen. Heroes all....God Bless'em...they died living their dream ! The rest of us should be so fortunate.

[caba]

BossedEyed: I´m really with you in saying that it is an international thing endeavoring space. Even good old Neil spoke of mankind rather than Americans!

I can still remember watching Columbia launch for the first time when I was a seven-year-old. John Young, Bob Crippen, those were the heroes of my childhood. I´m really shocked by today´s tragedy, but I´m sure, absolutely certain, that they will continue to expand the high frontiers.

May God bless them all...

[Jackonicko]

Wonder if anyone did an EVA to check for signs of damage while in orbit? Don't jump down my throat. Just a thought.

[ORAC]

The USA space programme could be in for a lean time. They only have 3 remaining shuttles (Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavour), no other man rated system and no planned replacement - having cancelled the X-33.

Jacko, they brained-stormed on the ground and decided that any damage would only be minor and that nothing need be done except check for damage on recovery. The same thing happened the launch before last, impacting an engine blister, and only minor surface abrasion was found on the tiles. I'm sure that decision will, in hindsight, be questioned.

This is regardless of the actual cause of the accident, which might be totally unrelated.

[Used Ink]

BossEyed, thank you for your comment.

However, like a lot of people, you should read before you comment.

I said: "reports of wing damage on take off"

You said: "The damage to the wing (not yet positively determined as a cause, or even factor, in the accident, we should remember) occurred after launch, not prior to it.

NOW, correct me if I am wrong, but in all my days of flying, I've never known a take off to be prior to launch. Even on a carrier you could, technically, be launched before take off, but not the other way round.

You also said: "You are therefore maligning the crew, and NASA launch support staff, with your unwarranted comment."

I say: "I dont think so".


Used Ink I think you should quit while you are not ahead! All space flights are launched - they do not take-off!

PPP

[Used Ink]

On Sky Text this morning, leading UK scientist, Professor Andre Balogh said, when pressed by Sky reporter;

"NASA would be fully aware(of the damage) and had in all probability known all along it was fatal."

Lets look at this for discussion purposes.

1. The crew WOULD have known about the damage.
2. They ARE highly trained scientists and aviators and would know the consequences.
3. With intelligent REASONING, would possibly doubt the integrity of the craft, bearing in mind the speeds and temperatures involved.
4. Human remains have been found, they have been shown on Sky. However, considering the speed, height, vapourisation conditions, how can a FULL body be recovered from the debris sight?
5. The astronauts helmet pictured, was merely charred.

Would YOU get on an aircraft that you were told was U/S and critically damaged?

[BlueWolf]

Used Ink, I'm not sure that you're giving the crew a fair go.

The craft wasn't - as far as we know - damaged until after, or at least during, the launch.

If they, and/or NASA, had known about the extent of the damage - if indeed that was the cause - and it's potential repercussions, would it not have been possible, desirable, and indeed expedient, to send up a second shuttle to rescue them?

I would take quite some convincing that either NASA or the crew were aware of any such potential problem prior to attempted re-entry.

[Used Ink]

Well, excuse me, but during recent comments on the Challenger disaster, "the incident occured during take off."

So my powers of deduction would deduce that even to NASA shuttles do indeed take off. ;)

If this is what this has boiled down to, (arguing if a shuttle is launched or takes off),then you could be missing something big.


launch (v.) to send forth by hurling or thrusting.

take off (n.) the process of taking off in flying.

As the shuttle is in the business of space FLIGHT, then it must take off. :p

Mercury, Gemini, Apollo etc. would be launched.

Oh by the way,

flight (n.) 1. the process of flying, the movement or path of a thing through the AIR 2. a journey made by AIR.

So, how can a spacecraft fly? :confused:

Oh yes, Blue Wolf, "The craft wasn't - as far as we know - damaged until after, or at least during, the launch"
Thats what I said...read before you post. ;)

[escapee]

Just seen on the news which lends weight to the damaged wing theory (speculation I know), that as the shuttle was re-entering temperature sensors in the left wing failed. The crew and ground control were aware of the problem which was being monitored when contact was lost.

[Postman Plod]

Used Ink, you're out of order.

If NASA had known there was a problem, and it was likely to be fatal, then do you honestly think they would have brought the spacecraft back in the full glare of publicity, and all it entails, with the crews relatives waiting at the landing site? Dont you think they might have decided to delay the de-orbit perhaps, and analysie the options?

With regards to Launch / Take Off "debate", stop being a pedantic prick.

You speak as though the crew had the option after take off to just turn around and come back, actually do a full walk-round inspection, or get off at the next stop. Hmmm. :rolleyes:

[Used Ink]

Thank you postie for your comments.

As for "being a pedantic prick", I didn't start that one and I suggest you read PPP's comment of ;

"Used Ink I think you should quit while you are not ahead! All space flights are launched - they do not take-off!"

PPP

If I may, I would like to refer you to

http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/mission/index.html

which as you can tell is NASAs own site, not one I've created, which refers to Columbias first flight.
Therefore it must have 'taken off'.

I rest my case on that subject. :p

You said, "You speak as though the crew had the option after take off to just turn around and come back, actually do a full walk-round inspection, or get off at the next stop. Hmmm"

I answer, "perhaps that would have been what you wanted me to say. don't be silly. :=
However the choice in orbit, whilst in the ISS, could have been to let lose Columbia, she was not repairable in space, and send a recovery shuttle to bring back to Earth the crew. There would be enough food/supplies on board for 2 months for all pers on the ISS.

:=

[Divergent Phugoid!]

10/10 Postman Plod!

Its a shame that this site, has again, become a forum for some particular members to force their often uninformed opinion on the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their comments and with a blatent disregard of who they might offend by doing so. Has anyone thought the families might read this too?


If this is what PPrune has come to, I dont think wish to be a part of it any longer.

Its amasing how many experts appear at a time like this... I will wait to read the NASA report when completed.

God bless the crew and my deepest sympathies to the families of all concerned...

[Used Ink]

Thank you Divergent Phugoid! although I have in the past, been led to believe you and the postie are one and the same.

You said, " forum for some particular members to force their often uninformed opinion on the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their comments.."

I repeat, " Isn't that what PPRUNE is all about comrade? "

Uninformed opinion :confused: Opinion is based on information. I have based my opinion on the information given to me via the news agencies, NASA website and not forgetting here. OR does my opinion not count in your society?

You said,"Has anyone thought the families might read this too?"

I enquire, "Is there anyone here even remotely attached to NASA on here?"

Honest yesses only please!

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Used Ink.


I think you have shot your self in the foot old boy!

If the hat fits.... Wear it...



(mmmm, interesting... profile says registered 23 01 03.)

[Postman Plod]

Used Ink, I can assure you that there is no connection at all between myself and Divergent Phugoid!, and any similarity between our names (clear similarity there obviously) is purely coincidental. Considering I've only posted on this forum at most 10 times, how you could possibly have "heard" that we are one and the same person is.... well.... laughable! I bet you've never even seen any of my posts!

I dont have a problem with informed opinion - as you say, that is what this forum is for. I have a problem with some elements of the news media, who often go looking for a story where there is none, or claim things where there is no proof - as what it sounds like Sky News did this morning suggesting that NASA knew. Is that helping anyone? Is that undermining the credibility of, in this case, a government body? I therefore think the news media's uninformed opinion cannot be relied upon, and they dont practice pure "fact" based reporting anyway - they talk utter c**p most of the time.

You may actually have said something interesting and worthwhile(I think, If I understood it, as it was a bit fragmented):

"However the choice in orbit, whilst in the ISS, could have been to let lose Columbia, she was not repairable in space, and send a recovery shuttle to bring back to Earth the crew. There would be enough food/supplies on board for 2 months for all pers on the ISS. "

So if NASA knew, amongst other options, they might have considered this? Yes, probably, but they almost certainly wouldn't have de-orbited the shuttle as normal if they knew - think of the political implications! Which suggests they didn't know. I think Sky News need a new "expert".

Finally, yes there are MANY people with links to NASA on this site, and I can guarantee that, as I know some of them.

Now can we actually get back to the subject perhaps, which is the tragic loss of Columbia?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Perhaps it would be appropriate to stop making guesses as to what went wrong, and leave that to the investigating team. At least for the immediate time. Perhaps it would be more respectful to refrain from trying to make such guess for perhaps a few weeks?

RIP the brave souls who gave their lives for ALL mankind.

[BlueWolf]

quote:Would YOU get on an aircraft that you were told was U/S and critically damaged?

This being read before posting; they didn't get on an ac (or sc) which was damaged. It was perfectly servicable and became not so - somehow - after they got on it.

[Smoketoomuch]

"There would be enough food/supplies on board for 2 months for all pers on the ISS. "

Used Ink - Columbia didn't visit the ISS. It didn't have enough fuel to reach the ISS. It was not equipped to dock with the ISS. [I don't think it ever has]. In short, they were going to have to land within a day or so, and with absolutely ne means of carrying out external repairs there was no point in any delay.

[Used Ink]

OK, Blue Wolf, strictly true, however it was an analogous statement in that a stop off at the ISS was possible.

How come no-one has mentioned the lives of the rats on board yet?

[Smoketoomuch]

"a stop off at the ISS was possible" - no it was not. They are/were in totally different orbits. Columbia had absolutely NO WAY of reaching the ISS.

[Used Ink]

STM, thank you for your comments.

If you were ever to follow the progress of the ISS on

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/tracking/index.html

You would be able to see both the orbits of the ISS and shuttle in orbit at that time. Strictly speaking the orbits were different, but in altitude.

All Shuttles have an emergency docking capability.

Reference your "NO WAY"

"YES WAY"

:p

Thank you all for participating with this thread.

Unfortunately, now my bags are packed, I must once again, travel down the M1 to a forgotten wilderness somewhere in the south of england.

Should I manage to get online during the week, I shall be keeping an eye to see how you all are.


Postie, not bad eh, over 4 hrs and still no-one with any attachment to NASA turned up, and its still daytime there.

"I feel my work here is complete!"

[teeteringhead]

I'm really amazed (and quite a bit saddened) that the majority of this thread seems to have been girly eye-scratching and absolutely unbelievably (under the circumstances) trivial arguments about whether shuttles "launch" or "take off".

Professional pilots or not, fellow posters please have a bit more respect for seven folk who didn't come home, after "puching the envelope" further than most of us could dream of doing in a million years.

Just think, even allowing for the odd Russian misinformation, I reckon (back of fag packet stuff - accurate gen ORAC or Jacko??) that in 40 years or whatever, the manned space programme worldwide has only cost a couple of dozen lives - and I'm sure all would think it worth it. Just think of the comparable AVIATION losses between say Kitty Hawk and 1943!

Every time there's a crash, there are pleas (particularly here on Mil), to not speculate, apportion blame but just pay respects and wait for the Inquiry. I think this goes in spades in this case.

So, purlease, reasoned comment, but nothing sensational or ad hominem.

And let's just remember the 7 astronauts, and their grieving families. RIP x 7.

[SASless]

Now ...now Plod.....Ink is not pedantic! You were half correct however.

[Danny]

Frankly, I'm disappointed with you lot on the Mil forum. If you can't have a debate without scratching and spitting on this topic then you don't deserve the right to carry on.

I'm closing this thread and if you want to post your thoughts about the Columbia disaster then you can do so here on this thread in RP: Shuttle Columbia breaks up during re-enry (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80192)

If you want to discuss the technical issues, and you'd better read what has been written already in the thread, and make informed speculation as opposed to 'I saw them do it in the movies so why not in real life' theories then feel free to take part in this thread, also in RP: STS-107, Chronicle Of A Disaster Foretold? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80261)

A warning though. The first one of you who I consider to be out of order, whether for being insulting or having an 'attitude' will be dealt with electronically!:eek:

Sorry if some of you don't deserve being labeled with the few who have an attitude/anonymity problem but there are enough threads on this this topic running and policing all of them is becoming difficult.