Shuttle Columbia breaks up during re-enry

[Danny]

Mission control have had a total loss of communication with the space shuttle Columbia since 1400 UTC, just before it was due to land at Kennedy Space Centre in Florida.

CNN are running shots of the shuttle at high altitude over Texas with a contrail and several smaller pieces also contrailing.

Pure speculation but pictures show what appears to be a very high speed, in-flight break up of Columbia. It doesn't look good.

Break-up occured at an altitude of approximately 200,000ft and a speed of over 12,000 mph.

[PCav8or]

Just heard on CNN that Mission Control in Houston has lost contact with the Space Shuttle over Texas. It was due to land at 0916 EST. Hope things are not as ominous as the reporters are making it out to be.

[RadAlt]

CNN now reporting NASA declaring an emergency.Several warnings giving not to touch or stay clear of any debris found in the Texas area!

Very sad indeed...

[birdstrike]

A very sad reminder that what we now regard as routine is in fact incredibly dangerous, and with little chance of survival if anything goes wrong.

[Max Angle]

Was watching on NASA TV via the internet, last comms. at 0800 (1400 gmt). Search and rescue crews in the Dallas FW area have been scrambled. Public bieng to told to avoid any debris due to toxic chemicals etc. This is going to be NASA's darkest day since the Challenger accident.

[sss]

for crew of one of the ultimate flying jobs,

RIP

[Konkordski]

Hearing reports of an impact in Palestine (Texas) - how ironic would that be?

[stargazer02]

Just watching the news and yes it doesn't look good at all.
multiple high altitude contrails.....
I guess that might be the end of the program:confused:

[RiverCity]

We have the NASA channel on our cable system. It's such a shock to see the break-up this morning, after having watched the astronauts, direct from the shuttle last night, during this mission. May their souls be at peace.

[Ranger One]

I dont believe this... 45 mins ago I was reading this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/january/28/newsid_2643000/2643109.stm

Then I go next door and put on the TV...

R1, in shock

[Bus429]

This is as tragic as any disaster, aviation or otherwise. However, its impact is greater given that the entire space program, and especially the Shuttle, epitomises all that is great in human endeavour. In the context of these uncertain times, we are all, no doubt, wondering if this is more than a tragic accident (since this was first posted, the US Government discounted terrorist involvement).

Condolences to the families of all involved.

[ATPMBA]

I just logged into my news service and saw the bad news. At first I thought it was joke but realized, yes it happened again.

God Bless the the flight crew, their families and the shuttle operations team.

[RatherBeFlying]

From CBC Radio:

Wide vapor trail,
long duration of tornado like sound,
houses shaking:(

Announcer mentioned "breakup at six times speed of sound"

[No longer ATC]

Dear Max angle..could u be so kind as to supply web address for NASA TV.. I have not had any luck myself.......cheers in advance....f

[Bus429]

No longer ATC,

The NASA TV site is swamped.

[No longer ATC]

BUS429... so I just discovered............thoughts go out to all concerned....

God speed guys...........

[EyesToTheSkies]

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/nasatv/index.html

The link is very slow; I wouldn't be surprised if they have taken the service off air at the moment.

[rob_frost]

A very bad day for NASA. 7 people probably dead, and this was also a very important mission for them.

RIP

[RatherBeFlying]

Approx. 100 mi. SE Dallas.

Approx another 200 mi. to Gulf Coast over some swamp and bayou country.

As with meteors, impact sites can be considerably past sightings.

[Huck]

My prayers for the families ... I witnessed the launching of this mission two weeks ago in Florida....

[spongebob_bm]

Space is a such a dangerous place, I for one am a strong beliver in manned spaceflight, but the shuttle fleet will be grounded (this much I am certain) I can allready see ahead for the next few months and I fear the same argumets against such activity will surface.
NASA has no replacements and the Space Station is incomplete, I think that this will put a end to these missions as there is no other vehicle capable of transporting the payload required to carry on with this activity.
We have 3 astronauts currently on the Space Station and the only way to bring them home or replace expendables is via the Russians. This will not be enough for continued operations.


My thoughts go to the family, friends and also the whole NASA community.

RIP Columbia STS-107
1979-2003

[RiverCity]

Phone-interview witness in Texas reports (reliably or otherwise), of having seen what appears to have been a commercial airliner "near by." CNN emphasizing that eyewitness reports are often found to be incorrect and the aircraft would not have been anywhere near the shuttle.

Would you folks fly "under" the shuttle on its descent, or is there a clearance zone for a just-in-case scenario?

[Danny]

Profile of the Clumbia crew.

Source: Fox News/AP (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77254,00.html)

Commander Rick Husband has just one other spaceflight under his belt and already he's flying as commander. That's a rarity.

"I think a lot of it has to do with being in the right place at the right time, for starters," says Husband, 45, an Air Force colonel from Amarillo, Texas.

The former test pilot was selected as an astronaut in 1994 on his fourth try. He made up his mind as a child that that was what he was going to do with his life.

"It's been pretty much a lifelong dream and just a thrill to be able to get to actually live it out," he says.

Another lifelong passion: singing.

Husband, a baritone, has been singing in church choirs for years. He used to sing in barbershop quartets, back during his school days.

------

Pilot William McCool says one of the most nerve-racking parts of training for this scientific research mission was learning to draw blood -- from others.

Columbia's two pilots are exempted from invasive medical tests in orbit, like blood draws. That means he and his commander have to draw blood from their crewmates.

McCool felt bad practicing on NASA volunteers.

"I didn't want to inflict pain," he recalls. "We weren't really gathering science, so everything that they were going through was for my benefit, and I guess I felt bad a little bit."

The 41-year-old Navy commander, a father of three sons, graduated second in his 1983 class at the Naval Academy. He went on to test pilot school and became an astronaut in 1996. This is his first spaceflight.

McCool grew up in Lubbock, Texas.

------

Payload commander Michael Anderson loves flying, both in aircraft and spacecraft, but he dislikes being launched.

It's the risk factor. "There's always that unknown," he says.

Anderson, 43, the son of an Air Force man, grew up on military bases.

"I was always fascinated by science-fiction shows, shows like 'Star Trek' and 'Lost in +Space+,"' he says. "And going out of your house and looking up and seeing jets fly by, that seemed like another very exciting thing to do. So I knew I wanted to fly airplanes, and I knew I wanted to do something really exciting, and I always had a natural interest in science.

"So it all kind of came together at a very young age, and I thought being an astronaut would be the perfect job."

Anderson was flying for the Air Force when NASA chose him in 1994 as one of only a handful of black astronauts. He traveled to Russia's Mir space station in 1998.

He is now a lieutenant colonel and in charge of Columbia's dozens of science experiments. His home is Spokane, Wash.

------

When Kalpana Chawla emigrated to the United States from India in the 1980s, she wanted to design aircraft. The space program was the furthest thing from her mind.

"That would be too far-fetched," says the 41-year-old engineer. But "one thing led to another," and she was chosen as an astronaut in 1994 after working at NASA's Ames Research Center and Overset Methods Inc. in Northern California.

On her only other spaceflight, in 1996, Chawla made a pair of mistakes that sent a science satellite tumbling out of control. Two other astronauts had to go out on a spacewalk to capture it.

"I stopped thinking about it after trying to figure out what are the lessons learned, and there are so many," she says. "After I had basically sorted that out, I figured it's time to really look at the future and not at the past."

She realizes some may see this flight as her chance to redeem herself.

------

David Brown is a Navy novelty: He's both a pilot and a doctor. He's also probably the only NASA astronaut to have worked as a circus performer.

Brown was a varsity gymnast at the College of William and Mary when he got a phone call one day: Would he like to join the circus? So during the summer of 1976, he was an acrobat, tumbler, stilt walker and 7-foot unicycle rider.

"What I really learned from that, and transfers directly to what I'm doing on this crew, is kind of the team work and the safety and the staying focused, even at the end of a long day when you're tired and you're doing some things that may have some risk to them."

He joined the Navy after his medical internship and went on to fly the A-6E Intruder and F-18. His current rank is captain.

NASA chose him as an astronaut in 1996. This is his first spaceflight; he will help with all the experiments.

Brown, 46, is taking up a flag from Yorktown High School in Arlington, Va., his alma mater, that another graduate took up Mount Everest. "I'm going to get it a little bit higher up, but I won't have to walk as far to get it there."

------

Laurel Clark, a Navy physician who worked undersea, likens the numerous launch delays to a marathon in which the finish line keeps moving out five miles.

"You've got to slow back down and maintain a pace," she says.

The 41-year-old Clark was a diving medical officer aboard submarines and then a naval flight surgeon. She became an astronaut in 1996.

Her family, including her 8-year-old son, worry sometimes about her being an astronaut. But she tells everyone "what an aggressive safety program we have."

"To me, there's a lot of different things that we do during life that could potentially harm us and I choose not to stop doing those things," she notes. "They've all come to accept that it's what I want to do."

She will help with Columbia's science experiments, which should have flown almost two years ago.

Her home is Racine, Wis.

------

Ilan Ramon, a colonel in Israel's air force, is the first Israeli to be launched into space.

"For Israel and for the Jewish community, it's something beyond being in space," he says. "It's a very symbolic mission."

His mother and grandmother survived the Auschwitz death camp, and his father was a Zionist who fought for Israel's statehood alongside his own father. The astronaut also fought for his country, in the Yom Kippur War in 1973 and the Lebanon War in 1982.

"I was born in Israel as an Israeli, so I'm kind of a dream fulfillment for all this last-century generation," he says.

Ramon, 48, served as a fighter pilot during the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s, flying F-16s and F-4s. He was promoted in 1994 to lead Israel's department of operational requirement for weapon development and acquisition. He was selected as his country's first astronaut in 1997 and moved to Houston in 1998 to train for a shuttle flight.

He and his wife, Rona, have four children and call Tel Aviv home.

Source: Fox News/AP (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77254,00.html)

To try and head off some of the wilder speculation, this is being considered as an 'ageing aircraft' problem rather than a terrorist problem. The Shuttle Columbia (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/columbia.html) was the oldest, first launched in 1981 and was on the 27th mission out of an expected 100 mission capability.

[Sheep Guts]

To the Families concerned our hearts are with you. This is indeed tragic news.

My heart felt condolences to all concerned.

I concurr with Spongebob, this has serious implications on progress of the Current Space Station Program.

I remmember Columbias first launch in 1981, I was a 13 yr old boy, we didnt even have a VCR back then, so recorded the audio on my cassette deck. Columbia certainly survived well through these years and supplied unparalleled service. RIP Columbia


Regards
Sheep

[ayrprox]

Very Sad news, hope there may be survivors but have just seen footage on CNN and don't hold out much hope. My thoughts go out to their friends and families:( :(

[Trinflight]

Since the ancient sailors departed their homeports for unknown lands and unknown fates, exploration has been the most prevalent motivational drive in human kind. Space exploration has become so commonplace in our lives that we really don’t consider just how dangerous operating on the edge of technology such as this is. The brave women and men who were aboard Columbia did know the risks and through their professionalism and the basic human instinct of curiosity accepted that risk in the name of exploration. They are truly heroes. The families of these heroes and all that follow are in our thoughts and prayers. Go easy.


Trinflight

[solotk]

It appears as though Colombia has been lost.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2716369.stm

Oh God no.

[RatherBeFlying]

NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/01/national/01WEB-TEXA.html)

[Memetic]

Anyone know if the ISS is crewed? All Nasa sites are /.'ed

Even more dreadful if it is.

[DC Meatloaf]

NASA says debris found in North-Central Texas.

US Flag at Kennedy just lowered to half-staff.

Very depressing.

[PickyPerkins]

Local radio here was saying at 9 am EST (10 mins. before touchdown) that NASA "was not concerned about tiles on one wing which had been lost on takeoff".

http://home.infi.net/~blueblue/_uimages/pi.gif

[Memetic]

STS-107
Entry Flight Director Leroy Cain declared a contingency for the shuttle Columbia at around 8:14 a.m. CST (1414 GMT) as the shuttle and its seven astronauts headed for a landing at the Kennedy Space Center.

Columbia fired its braking rockets at 7:16 a.m. CST (1316 GMT) and entered the Earth’s atmosphere with all of its systems functioning normally for a landing at the Florida spaceport at 8:16 a.m.(1416 GMT).

But communications were lost with Columbia around 8 a.m. CST (1400 GMT) as the orbiter streaked over Texas.

NASA began to use all of its tracking facilities to look for Columbia, but communications were not restored by the time the shuttle had been scheduled to land.

Contingency procedures remain in effect and landing support officials are currently being dispatched near the Dallas-Forth Worth area to search for possible debris.

If you find debris, please do not touch it, and if you have photos or videos that you think will be helpful, please contact your local police authorities.

From : http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/

There is a mission clock on the page, chillingly it seems to have been halted at 15 Days 22:37.

[Max Angle]

I also remember watching the first launch of Columbia, have followed the shuttle program very closely since and years later met the commander of that first mission.

A tragic day for the families and everyone else at NASA. I can't imagine how awfull it must have been waiting at the Cape for the first glimpse of the spacecraft holding your loved ones only to be told that it was lost.

[solotk]

BBC news server video appears to be coping

www.bbc.co.uk/news . Video is there, report is live.

[Ranger One]

memetic:

Anyone know if the ISS is crewed? All Nasa sites are /.'ed

Even more dreadful if it is.


Howso? This mission wasn't to ISS was it?

ISS is always crewed, but even with shuttle ops suspended they can return via Soyuz if required I'm sure...?

R1

[Captain Stable]

Apollo 1 Jan 27 1967
Virgil "Gus" Grissom
Roger Chaffee
Edward White

Challenger Jan 28 1986
Gregory Jarvis
Christa McAuliffe
Ronald McNair
Ellison Onizuka
Judith Resnik
Dick Scobee
Michael Smith

Columbia Feb 1 2003
Commander Rick Husband
Pilot William McCool
Kalpana Chawla
Laurel Clark
Ilan Ramon
David Brown
Michael Anderson

Push the envelope and you put everything on the line. Don't push it and the human race stagnates.

RIP

[RatherBeFlying]

Approx. 150 mi. SE Dallas

[fubaragain]

There was a view on the NOAA doppler radar
for the area that shows a plume across the
area where the return occurred...

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/latest/DS.p19r0/si.klch.shtml

Don't know if it's still there... But it was pretty
clear... :( :sad:

[Agaricus bisporus]

And with an Israeli on board boy are the conspiracy theorists going to go to town with their obnoxious pipe-dreams. Just wait & see!

Brave guys, and what a tragedy for the future of man in space.

[Go-Around]

CNN now reporting that "left wing hit debris on take-off"

Sincerest condolences to all those involved.

God speed guys.

[Memetic]

Ranger One

I'd not realised this was not an ISS mission.

You are right about the using Soyuz, I did not mean to suggest that they were stranded.

I was thinking of the crew there - it's a long way from home.

[View From The Ground]

Condolences to the crew and their families.........Let us hope that their tragic deaths does not discourage the further exploration of space. Exploration can never be entirely without danger, as I am sure all on board were aware. My guess is that their wish would be a safer but continuing space programme.

I salute their courage....may they rest in peace.......

[no sponsor]

All channels seem to be peddling the terrorist theories due to the Israeli being on board.

CNN have showed the first pictures of the ordinary contrail through the atmosphere (at about 200,000 ft) and then what seems to be a few additional multiple contrails, losing speed behind the main body of the orbiter. About 15 seconds later many other separate contrails were created from the main body, but all moving towards the east.

This is the first NASA spacecraft that has been lost on atmosphere re-entry.

[VFE]

My deepest condolences go out to all affected.

Their lives were not in vain. Space exploration is everything.

RIP.

[MMEMatty]

Nasa Emergency Notice (From www.nasa.gov)

NASA STATEMENT ON LOSS OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH COLUMBIA
A Space Shuttle contingency has been declared in Mission Control, Houston, as a result of the loss of communication with the Space Shuttle Columbia at approximately 9 a.m. EST Saturday as it descended toward a landing at the Kennedy Space Center, Fla. It was scheduled to touchdown at 9:16 a.m. EST.

Communication and tracking of the shuttle was lost at 9 a.m. EST at an altitude of about 203,000 feet in the area above north central Texas. At the time communications were lost. The shuttle was traveling approximately 12,500 miles per hour (Mach 18). No communication and tracking information were received in Mission Control after that time.

Search and rescue teams in the Dallas-Fort Worth and in portions of East Texas have been alerted. Any debris that is located in the area that may be related to the Space Shuttle contingency should be avoided and may be hazardous as a result of toxic propellants used aboard the shuttle. The location of any possible debris should immediately be reported to local authorities.

Flight controllers in Mission Control have secured all information, notes and data pertinent to today's entry and landing by Space Shuttle Columbia and continue to methodically proceed through contingency plans.

News media covering the Space Shuttle should stay tuned to NASA Television, which is broadcast on AMC-2, transponder 9C, C-Band, located at 85 degrees West longitude. The frequency is 3880.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical and audio is monaural at 6.8 MHz. Reporters can also go to any NASA center newsroom to monitor the situation.

New information, including the times and locations of press briefings, will be posted to this page.



Ad Ardua Ped Astra
(A rough road leads to the Stars)

Matty

[eyeinthesky]

It may be the wrong time to ask, but why does what is effectively a glider produce a contrail? I thought it was the condensation of the exhaust vapours from an engine which caused them.

Apart from all that, a very sad day. I can still remember walking into my university college on the day the Shuttle exploded. One of those fixed in your mind.

[Send Clowns]

A sad day. Lifting our heads to the stars we run risks, but it has been said we could do no else. May their God walk with the families in this difficult time.

[DC Meatloaf]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030201/capt.1044116699.topix_space_shuttle_ksc111.jpg

[Max Angle]

Lots of talk from the US about possible terrorist involvement, I think they need to talk to someone in the know before they go any further. At 200,000 and Mach 18 nothing could have got anywhere near them apart from the yet to be developed US missle shield.

[NigelOnDraft]

Any Shuttle Experts...

Does the shuttle "lose comms" for a period during reentry like the earlier US spacecraft i.e. did this one just fail to reappear on comms at designated time, or does it not suffer from the same problem?

NoD

[Send Clowns]

Yes, Nigel, BBC R4 has just been discussing that time, which is when this occured.

[MMEMatty]

eyeinthesky:

I think Contrails are the wrong word. What you see is a stream of Ionised air caused by the intense heat of re-entry. At night it glows. Obviously in this case, it could also be smoke, propellant etc.


NigelOnDraft:

As far as i am aware, yes, the shuttle does lose comms, for about 15 mins i think (but im not sure about that figure). Again, caused by the ionised air creating a shield around the shuttle that is inpenetrable for radio waves.

God rest the souls of STS-107. May they find peace in the stars

Matty:(

[kopbhoy2]

Tragic news - like many others I was reading articles on the internet about the Challenger disaster only a few days ago.

This is another sad day...

R.I.P.

[wonderbusdriver]

How about, we do become VERY rational and realize at least for a moment:

There but for the grace of God do we walk - and fly.

[RatherBeFlying]

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/02/01/national/nationalspecial/01TEXAS_01_lg.jpg

Andrew D. Brosig/The Daily Sentinel via A.P.

[NigelOnDraft]

Thanks for the replies...

Is going to make the investigation very difficult I would think. All telemetry (presumably) also lost in this period, and I cannot see any FDR surviving unless it really is super-protected.

NoD

[Barannfin]

7 more, to join the thousands of others. I mourn their passing and my thoughts go out to their families.

[Artificial Horizon]

An absolutely tragic loss, lets hope that space exploration will continue so that we may continue the work for which these 7 brave astronauts lost thier lives.

Rest In Peace STS-107.:(

[SaturnV]

NOD, there is no onboard FDR. There is, however, an operational voice recorder in the cockpit, and NASA did recover this from Challenger, and did prepare a transcript. The last words on the released Challenger transcript were "uh oh". My understanding is that the voice recorder covers the entire mission from before liftoff until landing.

[NigelOnDraft]

Thanks for that...

Again though, unless exceptionally protected, I doubt this would survive? Even if it did, suspect everything happened very quickly. Presume the whole flight relies on telemetry, which for this period was I assume not available...

NoD

[Lu Zuckerman]

I was a Senior Project Engineer on the Propulsion system of the Saturn-IVB based at the Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC). Prior to each launch each stage contractor had to make a presentation to Werner von Braun and his associates. The presentation dealt with the testing to date and then each stage contractor had to discuss their confidence level relative to the success of that mission. There were three contractors Douglas, North American and Boeing. In just about every presentation Douglas had the highest level of confidence and it averaged around 70%. The other two contractors were consistently lower.

In the case of the shuttle the reliability decreases with each launch even though NASA might change a piece of plumbing that may have a crack in it. They can’t check everything for wear or fatigue and as a result they can run afoul of Murphy’s’ law even at 200,000 feet.

My condolences to the families of the crew and may the crew be flying in formation with God.

:(

[brockenspectre]

like Max Angle I have been following this mission (as I do all Shuttle missions) on NASA TV. After being reminded of a couple of checklist items prior to re-entry (241/240B) all seemed well. At just before 2pm London time, Houston advised Columbia that they had noted tyre pressure data, this was acknowledged briefly.. a few moments later there was significant static online and nothing further. Columbia was in the process of easing out of its second of four banking manoeuvres aimed at losing speed and was banked at 53 degrees.

My heart goes out to the families, friends and colleagues of the seven crew - Danny thanks for providing their biogs - and hope they hold in their hearts the fact that the crew of Columbia died in pursuit of their dreams at the pinnacle of their professions.

As to cause? Two factors interest me. (a) the debris situation at launch and (b) the fact that the landing Columbia was going to be the heaviest in the history of shuttle flights.

If there had been damage at launch, what could the crew of Columbia done to remedy it in orbit? would it have been possible to effect repairs? would it have been possible to rendezvous with the ISS and even then could they have effected repairs?

Columbia was the grand old girl of the shuttle stable and only at a quarter of her airframe life ... would the additional payloads referred to by Michael Anderson (one of the astronauts who died today) have been an issue?

Mods - if you consider these latter two remarks inappropriate speculation, please feel free to delete them.

[Shore Guy]

Truly a sad day....

Initial reports indicate the event occurred at 200,000' - does anyone have the "Q" line? At what altitude does the vehicle reach max dynamic pressure?

[Konkordski]

Let's not forget that the Russians have lost four astronauts in the pursuit of space exploration - all in the re-entry phase. I think they also deserve rememberance at a time like this.

[Final 3 Greens]

We should mourn the crew, but celebrate their spirit.

They were professionals and knew the risks, but pushed the envelope anyway.

RIP

[Xenia]

Very sad, my condolences to the families of the crew.

[timzsta]

I was shocked and saddened to see the TV pictures this afternoon. Like so many I had, I guess, begun to accept the work of the space shuttle and the astronauts as a little to "everyday". I was ten years old when the Challenger disaster occured and can still remember it vividly.

I am sure that in the course of time the space program will continue, at the very least it has too to bring those on the ISS back home.

Let our thoughts be with the families of those brave astronauts who were prepared to pay the utilimate sacrifice to further the human race.

[slingsby]

Time sequenced audio re-run just on CNN
Last comms were from ground to Shuttle about ''missed your last'' and then something about nominal tyre pressures, the shuttle crew said ''roger and..... '' followed by several comms clicks and interference. Comms/Telemetry reported lost thereafter.

May the peace of God go with them, Shalom and goodbye

[Nattracks]

A very sad day indeed.
May the winds welcome you gently
Nattracks:(

[caba]

What a sad day!

It´s never been routine, and it will probably never be. But they will find out the cause, and another brave crew will go up again.

The crew of Columbia died exploring the high frontier. May they never be forgotten.

[PickyPerkins]

One of the TV stations is talking as though the debris which is supposed to have hit the wing and dislodged tiles came from the main propellant tank.

It was discussed as probably being ice, and that this is not unusual to have this lose debris sometimes even hitting the windscreen.

If I heard correctly, the piece was referred to as being "as big as a door".

I assume the dislodged tiles were collected immediately, and so some estimate of the magnitude of the problem has probably been known for two weeks.

As mentioned in my post earlier, NASA said they were not concerned about tiles lost on takeoff. Since there was little they could do about it, I suppose there was not much else they could say about it either.

It may be significant that one of the two indepentent enquiry boards formed of people from outside NASA was stated to be at work at 9.30 am EST, only twenty minutes after the planned touchdown time. Makes me wonder if that is much too soon be in response to an unexpected event.

http://home.infi.net/~blueblue/_uimages/pi.gif

[GustyOrange]

This is tragic.

I really feel for the families involved.

Gusty

[RiverCity]

As to the terrorism speculation:

I think it is necessary to bring this up. It's going to be on the public's mind. So, you take the viewing/listening audience from that point and bring them forward to understanding that it's an extremely remote possibility.

(1) Operative on board?
(2) A piece of equipment rigged to explode on re-entry?
(3) SAM?
(4) What about that airplane a witness said was "near" the shuttle; did it fire an air-to-air?

We know these are not possible, but this is the kind of stuff that rattles around in peoples' heads. It needs to be addressed, because silence, or ridicule, will cause speculation as to why there are no direct answers.

[NigelOnDraft]

[Squawk7777]

Here's part of an interview from time.com regarding break-up possibilities:

Seven astronauts, including the first Israeli in space, were lost Saturday when the space shuttle Columbia broke apart in the skies of Texas. The incident occurred at an altitude of some 200,000 feet, shortly after reentry and 15 minutes before Columbia had been scheduled to land at Cape Canaveral. TIME science correspondent Jeffrey Kluger explains some of the possible causes and consequences of the accident:

TIME.com: What are the possible scenarios that could have caused this disastrous accident on the shuttle's reentry into the Earth's atmosphere?

Jeffrey Kluger: There are three possible scenarios that explain this event. The first, which I believe is the likeliest explanation, would be an aerodynamic structural breakup of the shuttle caused by it rolling at the wrong angle. Remember, after reentry, the shuttle is descending without power, which means astronauts at the controls can't compensate for a loss of attitude by using the engines, they can only do so using the flaps. And that's extremely hard. Astronauts describe piloting the shuttle on reentry as like trying to fly a brick with wings. It's very difficult to operate, and even more so to correct any problems.

A second explanation might be a loss of tiles leading to a burn-through. (The shuttle is covered with heat-resistant tiles to protect the craft and those inside it from burning up in the scorching temperatures caused by the friction of reentry.) But I think that explanation is unlikely, because the tile-loss would have had to have been quite substantial for that to become possible. You'll hear a lot in the next few days about things falling off the shuttle during liftoff. But it often happens that they lose a few tiles, and I'd be surprised if it happened on a scale that could make an accident of this type possible.

The last option is some kind of engine failure leading to fuel ignition. Although the main tanks are mostly empty, there should still be fuel left in the maneuvering tanks. But probably not enough for an explosion that could have caused this breakup.

And just in case anybody was wondering, you can almost certainly rule out terrorism as a cause. This incident occurred well above the range of shoulder-fired missiles. And it would probably be easier to sneak a bomb onto Air Force One than to get one onto the shuttle.

TIME.com: So is reentry the Achilles heel of the shuttle program?

JK: No, the Achilles heel has always been liftoff, and the dangers posed by massive fuel load involved. Reentry has, of course, always been a difficult part of the space program. But this is, in fact, our first fatal accident on reentry. Apollo 13 is remembered as our most difficult ever reentry, but the ship and crew survived. The Soviets lost a crew on reentry in 1970 after an oxygen leak that caused the cosmonauts to suffocate on the way down. Reentry is a very difficult process, but the Russians mastered it in 1961 and we did the same a few years later.

TIME.com: Are shuttle crews trained to respond to the scenarios you've described?

JK: Yes, they're trained to deal with loss of attitude on reentry, and a range of other emergencies. But astronauts are not trained to deal with situations that result in certain death, because that would be a bit like training for what you might do if your car went over a cliff — in some situations there simply isn't anything you can do. One irony, though, is that NASA hadn't trained astronauts to deal with the sort of quadruple failure that occurred in Apollo 13, because they assumed that such a scenario would result in certain death. But the astronauts survived.

TIME.com: What are the immediate implications for the space program of Saturday's disaster?

JK: Following the precedent of the Challenger disaster in 1986, it's unlikely that NASA will undertake any further shuttle missions or any other manned space flights for the next two years. One immediate problem, though, is the International Space Station, which currently has a crew of three on board. They might consider one further flight to bring that crew home — the other option would be for them to return aboard a Russian Soyuz craft, which isn't the most comfortable or the safest ride. Beyond that, however, the space station is likely to be left unoccupied for a long time. NASA won't want to use the shuttle again until it can establish the cause of today's accident, and fix it. Now that we've lost two shuttles out of a fleet of five, it's even conceivable that the shuttle won't fly again. The shuttle was built as a space truck, and then the International Space Station was built to give it something to do. Both programs are likely to suffer as a result of this disaster.


What a sad day. My condolences to the crew and their families.

:(

[RatherBeFlying]

As heard live and subject to correction:

7:53am CST Left Wing Hydraulic InBoard OutBoard Temperature sensors loss of readings

56 Tire press loss Left Main Gear temp increase?

58 3 Bondline/structure temp sensors on Left Wing loss of readings

59 Left inboard/outboard tire pressure low readings -- on display and acknowledged by crew.

The word used in the press conference was "off-scale" and explained as loss of reading from sensor.

[VIKING9]

SHUTTLE DISASTER

Nasa says it has no indication that the space shuttle disaster "was caused by anything on the ground".


Columbia broke up on re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, killing all seven crew.

There have been thousands of reports of debris hitting the ground - a lot of it centred on the east Texas town of Nacadoches.

Nasa said it "would find the cause, fix it, and move on".

The agency lost contact with the shuttle about 40 miles above Texas. The spacecraft was due for a scheduled landing at 14:16 GMT at the Kennedy Space Centre, Florida.

Multiple vapour trails were seen coming from the craft as it broke up. A Nasa spokesman said: "It appears there has been a catastrophic technical failure.



Debris fell over Texas


"

It was the 113th shuttle mission and Columbia's 28th.


Debris fell in Texas and Oklahoma with one report saying a large piece hit a Texan bank.

On re-entry, the shuttle would have been travelling at 12,500mph.

Aboard the spacecraft was the first Israeli in space - Ilan Ramon, 48.

Early suggestions that terrorism might have played a part in the disaster have been dismissed.

There were two female and five male astronauts on board. The Columbia was the oldest of the shuttle fleet, built in 1979.

This is the most serious incident involving a shuttle since the 1986 crash of the space shuttle Challenger, which carried seven astronauts.


RIP amongst the stars...........

[Apollo101]

Ratherbeflying,

Very interesting your comments on left wing hydraulics, sensors, tires, etc. The footage I have seen at lift-off of Foam insulation coming away from center tank and striking the Orbiter on the left wing could be very pivitol in the weeks and months to come.

Ron Dittemore of Nasa stated in a briefing at 1600hrs. EST, relating to the liftoff, that It was investigated and looked at by engineers across the country and they all judged it to have no impact "based on their observations and reasearch" with Orbiter safety.

Having said that, He also went on to say that the incident at liftoff does in no way mean it is the smoking gun relating to todays disaster.

Lot's of talk about temp sensors on the wing's. Lot's more information to sift through.

Sad day for NASA.

An addition to the above post,

According to Ron Dittemore" Engineers did not know what impact the foam striking the orbiter would have on flight operations."

[Dop]

It's a sad, sad day.
It's a tragedy for the crew's family, friends and colleagues of course, and it's also a tragedy for the future of manned spaceflight.

Let's hope their deaths were not in vain, and that mankind will continue to explore space.

RIP.

[Capt Pit Bull]

Loss of signal from a single sensor is a non event.

However, progressive loss of signal from several sensors would suggest progessive damage to at least one area of the wiring looms.

:(

CPB

[Smoketoomuch]

Reports of 3 bodies found near Hemphill [sp?] Texas.

RIP.

[chillpill]

I was a young and brash 19 when I witnessed with total awe live the first launch of Columbia in 1981. My heart flew to the stars with the brave two on this day, and with the miracle of human endevour and the instinctive desire for mankind to always do and achieve more....

How sadly prophetic it would be if we all viewed the tragedy of today as a reflection of the way of the world in 2003 may be going. We must not. Those brave and visionary 7 would only see the big picture of the beauty of our humble earth as the essential and fundemental key to the future as they commenced re-entry just 9 hours ago..

Their astonishing sad loss must be a reminder to us all how fragile life is.... but also how we must all 'never give up' on our inbuilt passion to push forward to the 'final frontier'

May you all rest in peace the crew of Columbia.

God Bless you All.

[SaturnV]

The sensor loss was progressive, i.e., sensors were initially lost at the rear of the left wing and subsequently more-forward sensors were lost. The sensors apparently did not show abnormal values, but suddenly dropped off-line. The sensors were not channeled through the same signal processor or multiplexer.

The piece of foam insulation debris that struck the left wing during launch ascent apparently hit the leading edge.

An astronomer (working for CalTech's (and NASA's) Jet Propulsion Laboratory) observed flashes of light from the shuttle over Owens Valley California. It is unclear whether these might have been pieces of the shuttle peeling away or plasma.

[ORAC]

Break-up occured at 207,000ft at M18.3, NASA reports this to be the point of highest temperature stress.

The FAA reports a debris cloud 90 miles long and 25-30 miles wide. Pilots are requested to avoid. Light debris is expected to continue to fall for several hours.

[ETOPS773]

Its pioneering technology / science,and it has inevitible risks.

Those 7 astronauts are heros,they will forever be remembered,now,10 years,100 years time,never forgotten.

[ORAC]

Video (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/events03/world/amer/shuttle/bush01feb.ram)

My fellow Americans, this day has brought terrible news and great sadness to our country. At 9 o'clock this morning, Mission Control in Houston lost contact with our space shuttle Columbia. A short time later, debris was seen falling from the skies above Texas.

The Columbia's lost. There are no survivors.

Onboard was a crew of seven -- Colonel Rick Husband, Lieutenant Colonel Michael Anderson, Commander Laurel Clark, Captain David Brown, Commander William McCool, Dr. Kalpana Chawla, and Ilan Ramon a colonel in the Israeli air force.

These men and women assumed great risk in this service to all humanity. In an age when space flight has come to seem almost routine, it is easy to overlook the dangers of travel by rocket and the difficulties of navigating the fierce outer atmosphere of the earth.

These astronauts knew the dangers, and they faced them willingly, knowing they had a high and noble purpose in life. Because of their courage and daring and idealism, we will miss them all the more.

All Americans today are thinking, as well, of the families of these men and women who have been given this sudden shock and grief. You're not alone. Our entire nation grieves with you. And those you loved will always have the respect and gratitude of this country.

The cause in which they died will continue. Mankind is led into the darkness beyond our world by the inspiration of discovery and the longing to understand. Our journey into space will go on.

In the skies today, we saw destruction and tragedy. Yet farther than we can see, there is comfort and hope.

In the words of the prophet Isaiah, "Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."

The same creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today. The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth, yet we can pray that all are safely home.

May God bless the grieving families, and may God continue to bless America.

[PickyPerkins]

NASA news conference said that one of the indepentent enquiry boards formed of people from outside NASA is appointed before every shuttle flight. Therefore, my speculation that twenty minutes was too short a time to put together soch a group and get it working was wrong. My apologoies to all concerned.

Discussion in the conference on debris coming off the main tank was on foam rather than ice coming loose. The foam may have impacted the underside of the left wing somewhere between the wing tip and half way between the tip and the root causing an undetermined amount of damage. Loss of sensor readings and rising temperature readings in the final minutes all came from the left wing and left landing gear area.

This damage by the foam looks as though it may have happened too late in the launch (over the ocean) for the detached tiles to have been recovered and the damage assessed that way.

http://home.infi.net/~blueblue/_uimages/pi.gif

[Kestrel_909]

As our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the past crew, may we remeber them aswell as pioneers, brave and unique people.

The news conference on NASA TV has just ended at around 2200z and should be another one tomorrow.

Like others say, I suppose we do take for granted these missions and easily forget the enormity of the risk taken each time.

May we not also forget the 5 Russians who died in a similiar accident previously.


It seems like yesterday I was tunning into a UHF frequency on the scanner to hear a shuttle shortly after take-off heading for the ISS, along with thousands of others in Europe when we heard them talk of taken the pictures of the E.T (External tank not extra terristerial)

May the RIP and not be forgotten

[TwinAisle]

I landed today (I'm a student PPL) to hear this dreadful news....

The only words I can add are those of Walt Whitman - they just seem so appropriate.....

Darest thou now O soul,
Walk out with me toward the unknown region,
Where neither ground is for the feet nor any path to follow.
No map there, no guide,
Nor voice sounding, nor touch of human hand,
Nor face with blooming flesh, nor lips, nor eyes, are in that land.

I know it not O soul,
Nor dost thou, all is a blank before us,
All waits undreamed of in that region, that inaccessible land.

Till when the ties loosen,
All but the ties eternal, time and space,
Nor darkness, gravitation, sense, nor any bounds bounding us.

Then we burst forth, we float,
In time and space O soul, prepared for them,
Equal, equipt at last, (O joy! O fruit of all!) them to fulfil O soul.


Clive James once described his idea of heaven as "to be so far up there is no down".

With deepest condolences.

TA

[DrSyn]

I spent a couple of days with my friends at the Cape earlier this week, cursing my luck that my roster didn't allow me to be there today to watch the landing. Always a special event. I won't add to the foregoing speculation on this thread. I was on line (as usual) watching the whole process from before de-orbit burn onwards. It was all going so well until the final seconds. Like everyone else I still feel rather numb.

I thought I might add a personal note on Rick Husband (CDR), who made a number of good friends over here in the UK when he did an exchange tour with the RAF as a test pilot at Boscombe, back in 1992. He was in fact a Project Pilot on the Tornado. Many friends mourn the loss of a great guy and six other equally high-achievers. RIP.

The program will go on.

[Tailspin2001]

We should always appreciate explorers.

RIP the crew of the shuttle, you are heroes.

[OldAg84]

A sad day. Courageous men and women reaching for the stars.

God Bless them and their families and loved ones.

[Ignition Override]

Driving home last night, somebody fired a roman candle, or similar fireworks, moving to the left from just over the trees on the right side. It popped into several bright balls. What a sad, strange omen, when the first images on tv today for us were almost identical images from very high altitude-also going to the left. I had searched NASA's websites last night, as on a few others, for the fascinating photos of any shuttle's cockpit system panels, whose flight displays were to receive a second upgrade, to better portray horizontal and vertical flight profiles-and what a complex layout of 02 pump switches, digital data bus switches etc.

Let's hope that their families, especially any children, can somehow cope with it, and were warned beforehand of the dangers.

[av8boy]

As if to reinforce how different a reentry accident is from the kinds of aviation accidents we traditionally consider...

A current route briefing from HOU to CLT carries the FDC NOTAM one would expect:

FDC NOTAMs
!FDC 3/0865 ZHU FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS TEXAS AND LOUISIANA
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137(A)(1) TEMPORARY FLIGHT
RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT DUE TO SEARCH AND RESCUE EFFORTS
ASSOCIATED WITH THE SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA ACCIDENT. ONLY RELIEF
AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER THE DIRECTION OF SEADS (SOUTHEAST AIR
DEFENSE SECTOR) ARE AUTHORIZED AT AND BELOW 3000 FEET MSL WITHIN
THE AIRSPACE FROM 323700N/961900W AND THE CEDAR CREEK /CQY/
VORTAC 343 DEGREE RADIAL AT 26.3 NAUTICAL MILES TO 314000N/931700W
AND THE POLK /FXU/ VORTAC 349 DEGREE RADIAL AT 33.4 NAUTICAL MILES
TO 310000N/933800W AND THE POLK /FXU/ VORTAC 248 DEGREE RADIAL AT
22.4 NAUTICAL MILES TO 320000N/963600W AND THE CEDAR CREEK /CQY/
VORTAC 234 DEGREE RADIAL AT 22.4 NAUTICAL MILES TO 323700N/961900W
AND THE CEDAR CREEK /CQY/ VORTAC 343 DEGREE RADIAL AT 26.3 NAUTICAL
MILES UNLESS OTHERWISE AUTHORIZED BY ATC. SEADS MCC, 850-283-5207,
IS IN CHARGE OF THE OPERATION. FORT WORTH CENTER, 817-858-7503, IS
THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY.

However, the thing that really chilled me to the bone was this:

SIGMETs
Dallas-Fort Worth SIGMET, prepared on the 1st at 2:40pm CST (2040Z).
SIGMET November 1 valid until the 1st at 6:40pm CST (0040Z).
Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas
From Longview TXUS [GGG]
to 30 miles north of Baton Rouge LAUS [BTR]
to 20 miles south of Baton Rouge LAUS [BTR]
to 30 miles south of Longview TXUS [GGG]
to Longview TXUS [GGG]
SIGMET for SHUTTLE DEBRIS between 9,000 feet and 15,000 feet moving
east-southeastward 35 knots. FAA ADVISES CAUTION this area. Conditions
continuing beyond 6:40pm CST (0040Z). North River [JNR NDB]


A SIGMET for shuttle debris. Certainly logical, but to me, simply stunning, none-the-less. What a tragedy. Condolences to all concerned.

Dave

[Buster Hyman]

So many scenarios, so much to speculate, so sad a day.

They say time heals all wounds, but can it heal the dreams of humanity as it reaches for the stars & the future. As with all pioneers, the crew of Columbia will be remembered, their spirit will ignite the pioneering spirit of the next generation of astronauts. Remember, those of us who are "earthbound misfits" can only dream of flying where they have flown. The crew of Columbia got to live their dreams, the risk was acceptable to them and they moved the human race so much further forward with their endeavour.


:(

[RiverCity]

At our church today, the pastor said, "It is an old saying that 'the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.' We can update that to say, 'The blood of our fallen explorers is what will propel us forward to continue the exploration of our universe.' This terrible accident will not stop us; it will only give us more reason to continue their work and not be tethered to earth."

Or words to that effect; I am going from memory.

[Evo]

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/TECH/space/02/01/shuttle.columbia/story.patch.found.jpg
:(

[Genghis the Engineer]

Although I can't claim to have known him well, I happened to be flying with the same squadron as Rick Husband when he was selected for Shuttle training. His Emails back went up on the noticeboard showed clearly his dedication and excitement in what he was doing. He was a very highly regarded, able, liked and professional Test Pilot.

I'm sure that in different ways this was true of all of the crew, notwithstanding the dangers they all understood better than any of us they considered the risk that went with it. We should celebrate that dedication, and ensure that what they believed in carries on, whilst grieving their loss.

G

[Bus429]

Various warnings to members of the public mention the hazardous nature of some parts of the STS. Orbital fuel is comprised, in part, of hydrazine. Here is some MSDS information
Hydrazine (http://www.apba.org/Forms/Fuel/HYDRAZINE.pdf)

[Simon W]

A very sad day for everyone. RIP the entire crew and our thoughts are with the families and everyone that works on the NASA programme.

What really disgusted me was the headline that Sky News ran with yesterday an hour or two after the accident happened. It was basically "The space shuttle Columbia has been lost on re-entry, it's the 2nd fatal accident to hit the shuttle fleet in only 20 years". Now I think we'll all agree that what NASA have achieved since day 1 of the shuttle programme has been absolutely amazing and I think the fact they've been able to go soo long without an accident is also just as amazing. I almost phoned Sky to complain about that headline!

[OneWorld22]

The death of this excellent crew is a huge loss to NASA, the US, Israel and India.

But the families seem to be adamant that the programme continues. Capt. Browns parents revealed that's what he told his brother if anything should happen.

As Jim Lovell before Apollo 13 said when told by a journalist that the public regarded the moon flights as routine, "There's nothing routine about going to the moon, I can vouch for that."
The same applies to the shuttle, it is a dangerous and risky business. The fact that is may seem routine is down to the brilliance of NASA; The technicians, project managers, flight directors, controllers, the designers, assembly line workers, the scientists, mathmaticians and of course the crews. Through painstaking research and work and superb teamwork, they make it seem routine.

Manned space flight is a worthy and justifed endevour and should continue with the shuttle.

RIP 7 explorers.

[Bre901]

Columbia Loss FAQ v1.0 (sci.space.shuttle)

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=f42p3vsduv687an4ks01jmdspn57ki0kkm%404ax.com&rnum=1

link taken from http://www.robotwisdom.com/ (a dozen other links)

[Flight Safety]

My wife was downstairs and I was still upstairs in the bedroom, when the house was rattled by a large sonic boom, at around 8am CST (not knowing the cause at first, we didn't go outside to look). I live in Irving Texas, between Dallas and Fort Worth.

All day yesterday on the local TV news and radio channels, there were reports by many others who live in the Dallas/Fort Worth and surrounding areas, who experienced the same thing. It appears that the break up started above the Dallas/Fort Worth area (or slightly north west of this area). Later, when I learned the altitude of Columbia over the Dallas/Fort Worth area was 200,000 ft, I could hardly believe that a sonic boom of that intensity, could reach the ground over such a wide area from that altitude.

A little farther down range, going towards Nacogdoches, many residents in that area reported hearing mulitple thunder clap sounds, that lasted a minute or two in duration. I assume this may have been caused by the sonic booms of multiple objects, spaced out along the flight path, moving southeast overhead of their position.

Since most of the debris fell in east Texas and western Lousiana, the energy of the total mass of Columbia must have decelerated much more rapidly than the final planned deceleration to subsonic speeds over Florida. This might account for all of the noise that we heard here in north central and east Texas yesterday morning.

My wife and I send our condolences and prayers to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives in this terrible tragedy.

[Bubbette]

This is amazing--apparently some of the experiments surivived the crash! Experiment from space found intact
From the Jerusalem Post:

Dr. Eran Schenkar, Israel's space doctor and director of Israel Aeromedicine, told the Jerusalem Post that a few moments ago a fully intact box was found amognst the debris strewn across Texas
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1044162703229

[Buster Hyman]

I can imagine that no amount of experience would've avoided the final events for Columbia, but I was astounded to see that only two of the crew were on their second mission & the rest were on their first. Again, I draw no conclusions from that, but I just assumed that NASA would use a mix of experienced crew with any mission.

Also sad to see that none were trained for EVA. If they had any doubts about the wing, there was no way to check.

[Carry0nLuggage]

Shocking news. My thoughts go out to the families of the astronauts. We don't have a TV and haven't heard the radio today so this was a terrible thing to find on logging on tonight. I have been involved in the UK space industry since a kid when my father took me to see Blue Streaks being built right up to now working on comms satellites. Tomorrow will be a sombre day at work.

One thing to consider is that one of the tasks of the shuttle when visiting the ISS is orbit raising. Probably not the only way but perhaps the easiest. I don't have the ISS links at hand.

[ORAC]

NASA press conference has confirmed that remains of all 7 astronauts have been found and are in the process of being identified.

[Danny]

I have removed most of the technical discussion/speculation to the new thread; STS-107, Chronicle Of A Disaster Foretold? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80261) which will be kept to technical discussion.

Those of you who feel the need to express your emotions and condolences can carry on to do so in this thread.

[ORAC]

NASA has issued a correctoin to confirm that the remains of some crew have been found, but not all.

[VIKKI]

Shocking news

my condolences to the familys of the crew

R.I.P Columbia

[Eboy]

News reports said that Israeli astronaut Colonel Ilan Ramon carried a copy of a drawing, “Moon Landscape”, created by Petr Ginz, a 14-year-old Jewish boy, while Ginz was incarcerated in the Theresienstadt ghetto. Ginz was later killed in Auschwitz.

I was curious about this drawing and finally found a link to an image. I find it, and its being aboard Columbia, poignant.


http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_yad/press_room/press_releases/ilan_ramon.html

[Zoom]

The last lines of 'High Flight' by John Gillespie Magee Jr seem apposite at this sad time:

"....I've trod the high untrespassed sanctity of space
Put out my hand and touched the face of God."

Condolences to all concerned.

[PercyDragon]

You've got to admit, though, it's one hell of a way to go. If it was a choice between getting wiped out by a truck while rushing to a business meeting on the M25, and expiring in a 1000 degree fireball re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, with an audience of millions. I know which one I would choose.

[arcniz]

We can praise their profound courage - which is demonstrated and unquestionable. Anyone who reflects on their own personal frailty amid the forces of nature - especially the unfamiliar and unforgiving realm of space flight - can see that.

We can admire their curiosity and intellect, especially the commitment to cooperate in conquering the unknown with knowledge instead of weapons.

We can respect the personal striving and the sense of enterprise that pushed each of these pioneers to this final distinction in their life's work.

But what we may appreciate most at this moment is their humanity: They were our children, our mothers and fathers, our sisters and brothers, who linked hands from diverse reaches of the earth to embark together on this fateful voyage. Each one entrusted their personal spark of life to a common purpose for the advancement and opportunity of all who will live in the future, as long as mankind shall walk the earth and swim in the sea of stars.

[Bubbette]

I think the memorial ceremony was very comforting, and Bush spoke nicely. www.cspan.org probably still has a replay on.

[aardvark2zz]

I'm looking for the re-entry data of time, altitude, position, and speed (and maybe more) for any flight resembling this one taken at every second or so. Where can I get easily extractable data? Can someone supply me with this information. Thanks !

Keep the blue side up. Where ever up is ?

[NorthStar]

Condolences to the famillies, friends and colleagues of Columbia's crew.

After a tragedy such as this there will now rightly be a period of introspection, reflection and of course investigation on the part of those involved in the manned spaceflight programme. However the essence of space exploration and manned spaceflight is forward and outward looking in nature. The crew of STS 107 were drawn from diverse ethnic cultures but were united in their dedication to their science mission. The best way to honour the memory of this crew is to continue the work they so passionately believed in. The way to do this is to further develop the International Space Station, drawing on the talents of as many nations as possible, to maximise the scientific potential of this valuable resource and then share the information for the benefit of mankind.

I hope that your legacy will be that we can reep some rewards from the seeds that you helped sow.

[Jump Complete]

I remember the Challanger accident; I was about nine years old at the time. My sister and I were watching kids T.V when the newsflash came on. At first I thought it was a standard launch, wasn't listerning to the commentry I guess. I remember feeling sick when I saw it explode. My sister, five years old at the time, said "It looks like a swan!" as the boosters arched away from the exloded craft. I tried to explain what had happened to her. Whenever I see the re-runs of it happening .."Roger, go with throttle-up.." tears come my eyes.

When I first heard the news of Columbia, on the 6pm local radio news "The Space shuttle Columbia has exploded..." for a second I thought it was a 'look back' to Challanger, then I realised this was current and it was another Shuttle. Very sad.
I, as I think most pilots feel, consider space flight to be the ultimate aviation activity, huge respect to those who dedicate thier lives to do it, and the efforts required to become an astronaut make the efforts required to become a professional pilot look nothing in conparison.
Like everyone one always thinks of the launch as being the post dangerous part of it.
On the information we have so far, I wonder for how long they knew they had a problem, with the left-wing sensors failing one after the other...
Deepest condolances to the families and friends of the crew of STS 107. They died doing their life's ambition out there on the edge.
RIP The crew of STS 107.

[Iron City]

It is kind of odd how things go.

I found out about Challenger in a department store in another state while trying to get baby furniture for my first born. Found all the people in the store in the television section were they pile up a hundred or so units. Everyone standing in front of the pile watching a hundred Challengers explode.

Last weekend was in a nearby city in the same state. Large screen television in hotel lobby shows text crawl of lost contact and then the pictures. Everyone standing in front watching Columbia, including my now 17 year old daughter.

It felt pretty much the same.

[Capcom]

Like others before and no doubt like others in the future our species is graced with a special breed of explorers.
Exceptional in every way, striving always to fulfil difficult mission tasks without fault or waver for the good of mankind now and into the future.
Without them our time here on the third rock is surely finite.

They pave the way forward with brave indifference to the many risks, facilitating those small steps along the way that provide the elusive keys that unlock discoveries that will eventually equip mankind with the knowledge and then perhaps the ability to survive elsewhere.
For theirs is the noblest cause and their sacrifice will never be forgotten.

To those left behind

Take comfort in the knowledge they flew the line without fault nor fear and lost their lives in the most bold venture of human endeavor, doing what most of us are simply in awe of. “The Best of the Best!”

God Speed STS-107 :( :(

[kinsman]

I have listened to and read some comments in the media that suggest that manned space flight should end as a result of this tragic event. Manned space flight is the last great adventure for mankind in my opinion. As with all great adventures there is great risk and people will die. One only needs to look at the history of aviation to see the truth of this.

If mankind wants life without risk then we have no future as a species. For me and I suspect many who have posted on this forum these seven individuals died in pursuit of all our dreams to explore and push the boundaries of knowledge, there is no question the manned space program must go on. The best tribute that can be paid to these seven explorers is to increase the funding to NASA and European Space Agency. An unmanned space program whilst interesting will never inspire our children or fire their imaginations in the same way.

I am sure there will be some in NASA who will be feeling great pain at this time wondering if there is something more they could have done to prevent this tragedy. The most remarkable thing about the space program is how few accidents there have been when you consider the risks involved. From what I have seen this has been due to the dedication, enthusiasm and professionalism of all those who work for NASA.

My heart felt condolences to the astronaut’s families and all those in the NASA family.

[Straight Up]

Memorandum: To America From God
February 1, 2003

America, this crew you chose, is the finest in the land,
And if you'll pause a moment, I will share with you my plan.
The message I delivered to the crew was very clear,
"This flight goes straight to Heaven, fear not, for I am near."

"My children I am with you, this trip is one I've planned,
Yes....this trip is something special, it's one that God will man.
Heaven's Great Space Center needs some special help up there.
The Master has now summoned and is asking us to share."

They quickly volunteered for this mission in the sky,
Not a one was unprepared, not a one afraid to try.
"You'll go swiftly to the Master, and that trail of smoke they'll see,
Is the 'changing of the pilots,' for you're traveling on with me."

"You must leave this famous shuttle that you're sitting in, behind,
For the one I built that's waiting, is pure gold and silver lined,
As you search the fields of Texas in hopes to find them there,
Rest assured they're here beside Me and I have them in My care."

"You have trained them well, America, I've observed your every test,
I stood silently and waited, until you had the best.
I needed them, America, for Heaven's Great Space Plan
Encompasses the entire globe, The Universe of Man."

"I know them well, America, these loved ones you have lost,
I selected them some time ago, forgetting not the cost.
America, my heart is grieved, by your sorrow, tears and pain, and
Though it's little comfort, your loss is Heaven's gain."

Author: Fran R. Maiers
February 1, 2003

[rainbow]

Good Grief!:confused:
I think some families could do without this God conspiracy doggerel (even if composed in good faith...).

Makes me angry though... I'll wait for the results of the inquiries before blaming deities.:mad:

[fire wall]

Kinsman, what a crock. Spaceflight is great stuff but most if not all the tech advances did not require a highly trained dude sitting up the pointy end. That is the stuff of PR campaigns.
If you want adventure/discovery/pushing the boundarys or any other gospel you subscribe to then it is all here on planet earth. The oceans cover 60 % of the surface and we know cr@p all about what happens/lives/what minerals exist etc below the 200 foot level. You want the "Last Great Frontier" then it is right at your doorstep.
Who cares whether a spider will spin a web clockwise or anticlockwise in micro gravity.....I don't......at least not enough to risk 7 highly trained personnel and a zillion dollar annual budget......go figure.
And as for the god stuff............

[kinsman]

Fire Wall clearly a person who spends his life looking down rather than up, my sympathy to you as well!

Given the subject matter of this thread, have a little respect for those who have lost family and friends. If you want to continue this discussion use email!

[fire wall]

Kinsman, I do not need email as I have nothing to hide. I am truely sorry that I upset you, please accept my apologies. I just see this from a different angle. I have every respect for those men and women, that's why it is such a waste to put them at such risk when it is not necessary that they even be there in the first place. I fail to see how you can take humbridge to such.
As for the thinly veiled insult that you felt necessary to throw my way, I will leave that with you to contemplate on whether that was wise or not.

[Buster Hyman]

Well, seeing the spiders came from my neck of the woods, I'll defend them.

With due respect to the crew of Columbia, I think it's a shame that you don't see the importance in this little experiment. This isn't really the place for this, so I'll cut to the chase.

A group of schoolkids in South Australia, for one small moment in their lives, were a part of something bigger than could ever have been imagined by them. Those kids were a part of a shuttle mission. Can you imagine how important to them & their community & the rest of the country this was? Most of us watch space missions & wonder what it would be like to be a part of the leading edge of exploration. They were a part of it!

They did a lot of research & put in a submission to NASA that was chosen for this flight. Now, as to the merits of the experiment & it's impact on society, I have no knowledge, but it was good enough for NASA.

As to the crew, most of them were on either their first or second mission. As much as it may seem pointless to you, they would've argued how much experience they would gain from real missions, as opposed to simulations.

Now, I agree that the ocean is an untapped source of information and perhaps we should devote some more time & effort towards it. However, space is where the funds are going at the moment and, regardless of whether that's good or bad, it's how it is.

:)

[737guy]

We must look to a further horizon. To do otherwise is truly ignorant.

The STS system is over 20 years old yet we expect it to continue to operate like it was an airliner. That may well be proven ignorant. We know ignorance killed the crew in the Challenger explosion. Many many voices have pointed out the unbelievable costs of the ISS and pointed out how for the same price we could have established a lunar base that would have done far more for extraterrestrial travel than any space station could ever have done. Instead, we aquiesced to the political will of our neighbors in an effort to do the politically expedient rather than the scientifically useful. That decision has already been described as short sighted by many of the scientists that NASA relies on.

Our current plans for space exploration are pitiful when compared to the Lunar effort of the 60's. No long tern manned exploration is on the drawing board in anything other than the most barebone preliminary level. The much touted "manufacturing breakthroughs" that space supposedly offers have proven a bust for the most part. This was one of the main reasons the ISS was hyped early on. Now we have millionaires and rock stars lining up to travel to this useless fixture in space because they can afford to, not because it will further the effort of manned exploration. Other than long term weightless exposure, the ISS offers nothing new except a huge cost.

Disagree with me if you like, but I stand by my comments.



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The space program is not just about exploration. It is not just about "launching our DNA" to some distant locale.
The space program has been a platform for important research advancements in areas of medicine, microchip development, biology, etc, etc.
To say that it has been a waste is ignorant.
Should we not continue our focus on the present and the near future for fear of the distant future might hold?
What would you suggest the alternative should be? Just because it is expensive, dangerous, or the rate of return might not be up to your standard do you suggest we quit trying?
Should we stop flying planes because one day someone might crash one?

Stand by your statements if you like - and stand among the ignorant.


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>>The space program is not just about exploration. It is not just about "launching our DNA" to some distant locale.
The space program has been a platform for important research advancements in areas of medicine, microchip development, biology, etc, etc. <<<

Some valid points. During Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo there was a definite goal of reaching and exploring the moon and concern about the Soviets getting ahead of us. Earlier space research came up with some of the advancements you stated but no significant breakthrough discoveries have come from the Shuttle program in the last 20 years.

The Space Shuttle program came about with the goal of a cheaper and more efficient way to put man in space with reusable spacecraft and as VQ stated - significant manufacturing breakthroughs which would be a sort of payback. Sounds good -- only problem, like many government projects, is that it has become VERY VERY expensive and didn't provide the paybacks. Many in the scientific community are admitting there has been nothing very significant to have come from the Shuttle program. Scientists are admitting it's been "rinky-dink" science (how ants do in space?) and other relatively minor research and the payback on the cost/risk ratio has been extremely poor. Tell me what the Shuttle has done to make it worth the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars while we have schools falling apart and our elderly people can't afford medical care? Other than some repairs to some satellites I never hear of any dramatic research or breakthroughs having come from the Shuttles -- all I ever see or hear are sumersaults in weightlessness and gorgeous dramatic views of launches and cool looking landings. If NASA wants the Shuttle to continue they better start showing us whatever major breakthrough they apparently have kept secret.

>>>To say that it has been a waste is ignorant. <<<

Again - the cost/reward ratio of anything gained from the Shuttle program is EXTREMELY poor. At the moment I really can't think of any significant research or breakthrough. You are still falling for the hype that was propagated 30 years ago.

>>What would you suggest the alternative should be? Just because it is expensive, dangerous, or the rate of return might not be up to your standard do you suggest we quit trying? <<<

The alternative should be some sort of definitive goal, not just sending people in Space to do minor research for a better form of Saran wrap and see how bumble bees build hives in weightlessness. If there has been any major significant scientific breakthroughs from research on the Shuttle, then NASA sure has done a poor job of publicizing it.

>>Should we stop flying planes because one day someone might crash one? <<<<

A poor connection. Flying planes from one place to another has a needed and necessary GOAL of getting people from one place to another. Very different than the extemely expensive optional Shuttle program with few paybacks and a vague goal.

>>> Just because it is expensive, dangerous...<<<

If something's going to be expensive and dangerous, it better have a good return. I don't see the return.


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“There may be only a brief window of opportunity for space travel during which we will in principle have the capability to establish colonies,” Princeton astrophysicist J. Richard Gott III wrote in the journal Nature a decade ago. “If we let that opportunity pass without taking advantage of it, we will be doomed to remain on the Earth, where we will eventually go extinct.”

Just passed along for thought.

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In deference to the sensitivity concerns expressed by others about this discussion on the day the orbiter disintegrated, I held my response to you.

First I would like to believe you misread my response to you. You stated, "The space program has been a platform for important research advancements in areas of medicine, microchip development, biology, etc, etc. " I agree. But your Corning cookware and yummy Tang were the products of the 60's Gemini and Lunar efforts. Name for me one item that has come from the Mir/ISS program (the combined costs of which has exceeded the US lunar effort in the 60's.) The new flat panel display package on the orbiter Endeavour came from fighter/jetliner technology.

You said, "To say that it has been a waste is ignorant." I never once said it was a waste. I said it will have been all for naught if we aren't successful in getting our DNA into space permanently. We will have improved the lives of a couple generations only to see the human race be snuffed out forever.

After the shock of the shuttle breakup, news reports are surfacing about the very subjects I mentioned (Shuttle costs, NASA program direction, Future manned efforts, etc.) I watched John Pike on Hannity and Colmes discuss the sheer lack of direction at NASA. (John Pike was the former President of the american federation of scientists.) He lambasted NASA for the collosal waste of money that the ISS and STS programs have run and pointed out how much more efficiently the money could have been spent on long term efforts to get a full time manned presence into space. In the first 20 years of space flight we pushed hard and made unprecedented breakthroughs. The last 20 years have barely met our low aims. Much of what the shuttle and ISS does could be accomplished by unmanned misions. Now, with revelations that other STS missions have encountered significant structural damage as a result of reentry heat, the whole STS system is falling under scrutiny.

You said, "Should we not continue our focus on the present and the near future for fear of the distant future might hold?
What would you suggest the alternative should be? Just because it is expensive, dangerous, or the rate of return might not be up to your standard do you suggest we quit trying?
Should we stop flying planes because one day someone might crash one?"

I just think if we risk human life to fly into space it out to be for real scientific research. Knowing how bees fly and ants nest in zero-G is interesting but not worth the cost and risk to human life. Hubble repair missions teach us how to work in space. That's tangible, valuable information.

Even the astronaut corps themselves are starting to speak out about wanting to raise the bar for future mission efforts. On of the female shuttle astronauts killed last weekend is quoted in a new book by Linda Shiner, entitled "Shuttle: The First 20 Years" as hoping the US would commit to a manned program to one of the moons of Jupiter. The author conveyed the astronauts feeling that the current space program is not bold enough --they want to do more but the whole culture regarding risk changed at NASA after Challenger. This revelation is odd considering recent news that the shuttle airframes have been damaged upon reentry many times before.

Even Senator Bill Nelson is planning hearings on NASA'a direction regaring human exploration in upcoing months. Much more about this will become public knowledge in the next few months.

You stated, "Stand by your statements if you like - and stand among the ignorant. "

I simply agree with the assessments offered by the experts involved. If there is any ignorance in this discussion, it is most definitely not on my side of the discussion.

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I too want to make it clear that I am not against space exploration but as many point out who are in the field in the scientific community, let's get off the Space Shuttle "treadmill" and make some real progress and move forward.

NASA is doing research in using nuclear power for robotic and manned space exploration. Nuclear power offers several times the energy of chemical rocketry which means being able to enter and leave orbits rather than just fly-bys and can generate plenty of electricity for scanning and sending large data files back to Earth. It's predicted that a nuclear powered mission could send men to Mars in 45 days rather than 6 months. It's time to move on to the next stage and get off the "treadmill".

As the Wall Street Journal says, the results of Shuttle experiments don't even get published in associated scientific journals anymore and the cost/benefit of the Shuttle program is now poor.

A big reason, perhaps the main reason that the US coordinated the "Space Station" with Russia was to keep Russian scientists busy (and paid) so their services wouldn't go to 3rd world terrorist nations after the fall of Soviet Union. The Soviet economy fell apart so the US is now shouldering the majority of the costs. The Soviets are way behind their share of costs and the station is way over budget but it's a good excuse to keep the Soviet scientists in check. Your tax dollars at work.

There needs to be a clean sweep of what we are doing and a new program started.

[Few Cloudy]

Gotta object to this "pushing the boundaries" business. The boundaries flown to have been set for a long time. The only one being pushed presently is how long a geriatric spacecraft can fly.

Having said that, hats off to the gallant crew, who have little say in the matter.

[kinsman]

As I said before, the best tribute that could be paid to these seven explorers is to increase funding to NASA and ESA.

A manned space program will never be safe. If you had told the original seven Mercury astronauts that there would be only three fatal accidents involving the US space program to the present date, they would never have believed you! This accident needs to be put into perspective, as sad as it is.

I still maintain a manned space program is important, yes NASA needs more direction. No I do not agree these astronauts wasted their lives on a pointless endeavour, as Fire Wall has suggested. Yes I would like to see more exploration of our Oceans as well as space. Yes there is a place for unmanned space exploration.

NASA is a victim of budget cuts not a lack of imagination or desire to push the boundaries. We seem to be living in an age where many are content to experience life through a television or computer screen. As a society we appear to have lost the will to take risks! Very sad!

[NorthStar]

Surely the ISS provides a very suitable short/mid term project for NASA, ESA et al provided the right goals are set and funds provided.

The problem for the ISS at present is that it has a crew of 3, 2 of which are tied up in the day to day running of the station leaving just one person to do the science. The original aim of the ISS was a crew of 7 working in several laboratory modules and providing high quality research in several scientific disciplines. Re-focusing on this concept should provide the payback to justify the expenditure.

[Anchorman]

I had the pleasure of seeing Columbia launch from close quarters on STS83 in spring 1997 whilst delivering a yacht up the Intracoastal Waterway. The vibration and noise together with the sight of the unit lifting off were indeed very memorable, and something to be recommended if the programme regains a footing after the current investigations.

Loss of life is indeed tragic as always, and by the latest reports that the foam has been deemed to be an outside bet as the left wing culprit, there might well be a lengthy delay in recommission.

I believe strongly that if no spaceflights continue, we may well regret whoefully the inabiity to carryout such missions, weather scientific, civillian or military in the near future. It seems that from 'the outside looking in' has proved successful both in scientific (met and science research) and military applications, and has provided the global community with data and solutions that have brought home the fact that we may indeed be damaging the organism on which we inhabit.

I understand the views of all who view the missions with appathy and a certain negativity, but without these brave, highly educated and highly qualified souls who pilot, crew and inhabit the various vehicles and stations, we would still be denied the important information which these crews can report. After all one day, we might need to be up there looking down rather more urgently than the other way around.

I feel deeply sorry for the crews and families involved, but as they have said, carry on exploring and pushing the boundries, its what their loved ones believed in, and deep down I think its only human nature.

[arcniz]

Trial and error is the history of humanity. Certainly that truth holds for aviation. The unavoidable mistakes teach us how to do it better. The avoidable mistakes teach us to be more careful and more humble.

In the prior generation, an 'advanced' spacecraft was a 1-use funnel or cylinder strapped onto an ICBM. The shuttle was a great leap forward from that, and it has done a lot of real work. Merely by existing as a resource it has made things possible that previously were unimaginable. Much of the best stuff does not see daylight, for various reasons, even while NASA stretches credibility with the touchie feelie P/R it spreads around for the Disney generation. The current media approach somewhat trivializes perceptions of the important work that is accomplished.

Acrniz's First Principle of Technology is: if you want to learn how to do something well - start doing it. Automated and robotic systems are fine tools, but the combination of those systems with intelligent and perceptive humans onboard is always going to be better in certain cases. For near-earth exploration, the opportunity cost of not including humans seems too high.

We should be proud and grateful that smart, skillful people are willing to take the ride, even when they know the odds are not really smiling on them.


Something that becomes clearer as inquiry progresses is the relatively great number of items on the 'hopeless' or 'impossible-to-repair' list of life-or-death contingencies in the current vision of shuttle ops.

Seems like we may now be graduating to the next level of 'normalcy' in space travel, where the goal is not just getting there, but also coloring in the support envelope so that a viable rescue / repair process comes to exist for on-call aid to crippled vessels. Support might be provided by hot-standby resources on the ground or a zero-g Roadside Assistance utility stored on or near the space station (the Space Garage). Perhaps the automation folks can also whip up some expendable little 'bots that are available to circle around the craft while in space and eyeball check the critical extremities.

The question is not 'whether to do it', but 'how to do it better'.

[YouNeverStopLearning]

I watched the day they reported the Apollo fire, my heart sank.

I watched the day WE landed on the moon, my heart sang.

I watched the day they launched Skylab, my heart sang.

I watched the day the first shuttle launched, my heart sang.

I watched the day Challenger was lost, my heart sank.

I watched the day the shuttle restarted, my heart sang.

I watched the day the International Space Station was launched, my heart sang.

I watched the day MIR came back to Mother Earth, my heart sank.

I watched the day Columbia was lost, my heart sank.

I watched all these and more and the USSR too. I watch in awe, admiration, wonder, envy and pride as brave humans dare to explore. I dream of space and the blue marble. I would go up at the drop of a hat.

There is no progress without risk. But I will remember all who lost their lives shooting for the stars. If you’re ever in Arizona visit the memorial at Meteor Crater.

RESPECT.

[Bern Oulli]

This says it all. (http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/8393.pps) And No, it's not a joke.