Can I have some advice please?

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Hey everyone! As you may see I am new to this website, so I hope that I can be made welcome by you guys

Anyway, I'll get on with my post and stop babbling hehe:

I am a student pilot with only two hours, and I am also only 14 years old, so I have plenty of time to make decisions, big and small. What I really wanted to ask was; what is the best route to take to become pilot in command of the Concorde?

OK, you think, take one bridge at a time, kid, that's the way to do it, however, I think that if I have everything planned out for me then my life - and my career- should turn out well.

So far, I have acclaimed a plan that once I have my Private Pilot's License, I shall continue on to College to study aerodynamics then come back to apply for a Flight Instructor job, which I shall keep to help pay for extra training (i.e. Night Rating, Instrument Rating and so on).

From there on, when I have - I hope! - over 1,000 hours of flying experience, I shall apply for training in the Learjet or Boeing 737 which I shall fly on short hauls (I live in Midlands, UK, so I was thinking Gatwick to Edinburgh type flights).

Then I hope to increase the lengths of my flights and progress to larger, trans-atlantic planes such as the 747, and from there on, well, I'll just see how it goes!

Anyway, I would just like some advice on this, prefebly from someone who has some experience behind them, but all suggestions are welcome!

And one more thing; I have pondered this for quite a while: if you have many hours, but only the PPL, will certain airlines train you to work for them?

That is all! I hope that someone will be able to help me, as I'm sure they will

Thanks!

Jack

[c_kraig]

Alright. Wait......... give it a long pause before you start reading.





Alright. you have everything in order. Sounds like a good plan. First off, have you talked to or have gotted to know any of the pilots who fly the Concord? Well lets start off small. My point is, is it what you really want. You sit up high, go fast, climb fast then just sit up there for a few hours and manage the instruments. See, Aviation has made a big change eversence the industry switch to turbines and jets. The real flying was in the round engines. Rarly things go wrongs turbines. But when they do, Stand back. I have never flown a big bird like that, hell I was trying to go for the United State of America's Customs to fly helos. Well things all changed. There are thing that are in your life that you will not be able to control. When you start your cross country flying you will learn about "A way out". This could me an alternate airport or a place to land. It really isn't learning how to do it... it is more like a mind set. You have to be aware that anything and everything is going to go wrong when you least expect it. It happend to me... four years later I have just started to get back into the seat again. It didn't seem that the things that happend to me were big but the fact that they did, took me down, and hard. I have always believed that a student should spend a little money and learn how to fly and land gliders. then to go into the engined birds. That way you ingraind in you mind and soul that when your engine goes out, you have it all under control. And what about your medical?
I had a friend of mine who just got his 757 rating and he went into a medical check up and he had something wrong. Something that he could not fix. He was sacked, not all things were bad. He went to a flight sim company and he now teaches the 757. Never too far or too long from his family. I think he hit the gold. I have many other things to say, but not enough time. start off small and enjoy life. Last year, I lost six of my good friends. Four of the didn't leave themselves an out. I want to learn from them and continue to fly with their angels. One day I may need one of them. Its good that you are asking these questions. Ill see you later Halfbaked_boy.

[scroggs]

Jack,

it's an admirable plan, mate, but it makes one fundamental mistake: it assumes you are in control of your career! Believe me, luck and chance play a huge part. But well done for putting your plan up for assessment.

Firstly, and I'm sure you appreciate this, Concorde is unlikely to be in service long enough for you to be able to fly it. Even the best things have to come to an end, and it's probable that Concorde's time will end around 2010 or so. Sorry! Best you aim for the A380 or B747-400X, which will be around in the 20 or so years that it will take you to get to a long-haul command.

To the more practical aspects: good idea to become a Flight Instructor, but don't expect to apply and have someone pay for your training. You will need to find somewhere around £5000 for that course. Also, to become an FI to earn money, you will need a Commercial Pilot's Licence. As you intend to move on to airline flying, you should take the ATPL (Air Transport Pilot's Licence), not the CPL, ground exams. There's little real difference from the work level point of view, and I believe it's very difficult to find anyone who offers a CPL groundschool. Anyway, these will cost you another grand or two - and a lot of work.

You suggest that you would like to move on to business jet or airline flying later, once you have 'sufficient' hours. There are almost no operators offering business jet training - and it would not be for free. There aren't many bizjet pilots, period. Also, employers would generally be looking for pilots with more experience than you suggest. However, you could be one of the lucky few - once you have a Lear or BAe125 rating (paid for by you) in your sticky mitt.

The 737 option is far more practicable, as both Ryanair and easyJet offer some kind of ab-initio recruitment (that's for people with very little experience). Through CTC-McAlpine, easyJet are offering training from nil experince to 737 for a lucky 24 people this year. It will cost those lucky bods £63,000 over the next seven years, but it will be taken out of their pay a little at a time. This scheme may still be in place when you get there, it may not.

Ryanair's scheme involves you paying £50 to apply to them, £150 for an interview and simulator check and (I believe) £18,000 for a 737 type rating. Your pay is thereafter reduced until the company have 'recovered' their expenses - I'm not sure how long this takes.

A couple of other operators - FlyBe, Britannia, Astraeus, and JMC - have offered similar sponsorships, as they are known, over the last few years, but you must understand that they are few and far between and only a very few people are lucky enough to get on them. British Airways' 'Cadet' scheme is currently suspended, but could be back operating again by the time you're old enough to apply.

The majority of UK commercial pilots these days achieve their aim either via a commission in the RAF or Royal Navy, or by sponsoring themselves through flying training. This costs in the region of £65,000 to get 200 or so hours and a 'frozen' ATPL (a CPL which becomes an ATPL automatically on achieving 1500 hours), plus a few other necessary qualifications. They then have to go on the treadmill of looking for a job. This can take a very long time to get!

Sorry to keep bringing it back to money, but it's vital that you understand that learning to fly costs a great deal of the stuff and, outside the military, very few organisations are willing to pay for you. Therefore you must be prepared to find that cash yourself, eventually - and therein lies another story.

However, don't be put off if this is what you really want to do. Keep reading Pprune and try to follow the progress of some of those ahead of you. Try and learn from the mistakes of others (those that they own up to!), and study the methods of those who have achieved their aims through sponsorships. There's a great deal to learn, and you have lots of time. Use it wisely!

Good luck.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

PS As for going on to long-haul at a later date - we can talk about that nearer the time!

[P T Flea]

I found your post refreshing and a breath of fresh air.

There's easily enough optimism there to give the whole wannabe's forum a boost.

You may not really know how to go about tackling your dream but that kind of attitude is an extremely good start and will most likely serve you very well in achieving your ambitions.

Yes I know a Concorde pilot, in fact he took me flying once (in an Arrow). He never really talked about flying the Concorde, but I do remember him wearing little wrist bands as he claimed that light aircraft could make him feel sick. I think he's a skipper on 737's now.

PT

p.s Join the Air Training Corps or Combined Cadet Forces (RAF branch) whilst you are still young as this will look very good on future application forms. My brother is 14, absolutely no chance of getting him to do that, all he wants to do is skate board and listen to music with explicit lyrics.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Wow, I thought I would get a reply or two with a bit of luck, but I had no idea that you guys would be of this much help!

Firstly, c_kraig, your post has really boosted the morale I have for myself and what I can do, and has explained to me that I should get myself a chair to fall back on. I really do appreciate the time you took to read and comprehend my cravings ( :D )! After reading what you have written, and I mean this, you have actually shown me what other options I could choose if I do not make the airlines! Hey, if you want to contact me (or if anyone does!) then it's all in my profile.

Scroggs (funny name :))! Well, what can I say mate! Well, to start off with, even though it is a depressing matter lol, I am glad you have layed out all the costs that I am going to have to endure if I pursue along the path I intend to, and when I add the figures up in my head, well, you get the idea ;-). The military, you say? Yes, I have considered it on many occasions as an alternative path to the magnificent Virgin Atlantic 747-400 hehe. Before I began looking into the Concorde (SST and others) we flew to the United States on a 747 of the above make and airline, and I thought: if only I could get into the left hand seat of this...
So I gathered up my courage and asked one of the Cabin Crew whether I could have a look in the cockpit, but the answer, as I had feared, was no, which I can understand due to the events of September 11th one year ago.
Ok, so if I can't visit it physically, I'll try it virtually, and so began the spree of 'instrument-diseased' Flight Simulators lol such was my desire to do what I wanted to do.
Then, when I had flooded the sim with new aircraft and the like, I stopped, sat back and took a look; If I really want to be an airline pilot, then I am going to have to take steps now so as to make the 'already hard' route perhaps a tad easier.
So I have a look at the local airfield's training costs (£4,995 all inclusive) and think, hey, my inheritance (from my Dad who died when I was 18 months old! :() may just have been made for this.
Ok, I am sure that some of you are thinking: why go and spend that amount of money when you could just pay in steps? Why? Well, two reasons really, the first being that in one week's time from when I paid it, the already £112 per hour was going to rise to £130 Per hour!!! The second reason, well, I felt that the airfield has been active since 1920, so I very much doubt it is in any danger of closing down now, plus it would make it a lot easier if I did it this way!
Anyway, enough babbling, I again thank you scroggs for your interest in these matters! :) cheers

Flea! Why than you for your compliment about my positive and ambitious 'attitude'! I appreciate it!
Also, do you know whether the guy you know is online, and if he is, if he has Email perhaps? I would really like to speak to him; he sounds like he'd know what he's talking about! (not that you don't of course hehe).

Thanks to all you guys!

Jack

[Number Cruncher]

Jack, are you really only 14? You speak with such maturity and show great enthusiasm, which is brilliant to see!

I can't really offer you too much advice as you seem to have worked it all out for yourself already!

Sorry to hear about your dad, but I’m sure he' be proud of you looking down from above and seeing you pursue your dream. You go for it boy. As Scroggs says, don't be put off by anything. There are means and ways of overcoming the various obstacles you’re likely to encounter along the way but you know what they say, "If you want it bad enough, it'll come your way eventually".

As you say, you’re new to Pprune. Well, you are going to learn a lot from it over the next few months. You’ll read lots of interesting and inspirational stories. Unfortunately, there’ll be some not so inspiring and slightly off putting. Don’t be put of by these, however do take note of them as this is a very tough and competitive industry, but I’m sure with your attitude you’ll give it a good crack.

I’m 4 months into PPL (airline desperado) and if any, the advice I can offer you is that if you’re going to pay up front for training do so via a credit card. Not yours obviously, but ask a relative nicely if they’ll do it for you. It’s what I did and in my case I am covered by insurance should the school go belly up. (Ps I’m an accountant and also studied the flying schools accounts rigorously to ensue the chances of them going out of business were minimal. You could hire an accountant too, but I wouldn’t advise it as he’ll probably rip you off!!!)

Well, good luck. You’ll get there. In the mean time try to keep your eyes in the classroom and get yourself good grades.

;)

[ZFT]

Halfbaked_Boy

A breath of fresh air reading your enthusiastic posts.

Drop me an email and I'll try to get you a 'flight' in a real simulator. It just might spur you on.

Where abouts are you in the UK?

[P T Flea]

No sorry I don't know whether he is online, I haven't seem him since that flight which was about 8 years ago.

As someone mentions here the best thing you could do for now, apart from ATC or CCF, is to keep your head down and try and get the best grades that you can get. Go and do A Levels and make sure you include maths and physics as these are sometimes requirements by an airline before you can apply to their sponsorship scheme.
Go to University and do a degree. It doesn't necessarily have to be in something technical, but that would be an obvious advantage. I went and did Aerospace Engineering at Southampton, I always think that looks quite good on application forms and it includes plenty of aerodynamics that you are keen to study.
You should also consider trying to get into the Duke of Edinburgh if your school offers it. This is one thing I didn't do and I now regret it. I have come across more than one application form for sponsorship/scholarship that asks whether I partaked in D of E and what level I reached.

Try giving this document a read, it might help

http://www.balpa.org/intranet/How-to-bec/FlyingCareerDocument.pdf

PT

[A and C]

Most of what has been written above is good advice and the best no cost option for you is to join the ATC or CCF however as some one who has observed these organisations from the inside I think that the ATC usualy offers a better grounding in the technical side of aviation , the CCF being more interested in making you an officer .

If you do join the ATC email me as I can help you but cant say how on this forum as it might be seen as advetising which the Pprune rules do not allow.

[low'n'fast]

Halfbaked boy

Check your personal messages.

[monkeyboy]

Halfbaked_Boy, I wish I had your maturity when I was 14! Well done, mate.

From somebody who is a bit further into the sausage machine than you I'd just like to say don't give up when the going looks sh*tty.

You'll find that pprune is an amazing source of info and the one piece of advice I will give you is NETWORK, NETWORK like mad.

scroggs has helped you a great deal with his summary of how to get there.

It's not WHAT you know but WHO you know in this game.

Good luck and see you at FL350 some time, alright?

MB

[c_kraig]

Half baked. I have to say that you sure do have head on your shoulders. I have one suggestion for you to save a good bit of money. Get your training in the USA. I know that the Japs come here to learn how to fly so they can fly gliders back home. Your standard Private Certificate will run about 3500-4000 american dollars. The onto your intrument and commercial will run about additional 5000 dollars, then you have to get a mulit-engine ratinge with the intrument/commercial add on and that can run some where between 1500-2500 depending where you go. I can give you a place here in california where the guys won't rip you off and you are withing the reach of a good job that may pay between 10-15 dollars per hour and there are schools all around. If you are really focused which it appears that you will not have a problem with you could do it within a year. A training aircraft like a cessna 150 is about 65 an hour wet and 172s go for 80 an hour and the instructor is about 25-30 an hour. Really you get two hours of instruction for the price of one becuase you get the ground school which is about an hour and then the flying which usally lasts about an hour. so you can do pretty good. besides, flying in Southern California is great. We get all kinds of weather and sometimes it is challanging. Just like on PPrune where you are showing you screen name you have to do the same on the fields.
I know that it is tough in the UK for the flying public and the commercial pilot, but here in the US we love you guys. So let me know if you would like to have the name of the flight school that I went to and a name of the instructor who helped me with my Commercial. He is the best one eyed pilot that I have ever seen. I am not saying that there are a lot of them here but still. Good string kid.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Hiya mate :) Yep I have heard how cheap it is over in the US of A, but I'm not so sure my folks would appreciate it so much, although it sounds like a great idea to me lol, however I don't think that at my age (14 if you didn't get it) I would be ready to imigrate to the USA, really because I am settled here and more so I am at the crucial stage now where I have to focus on choosing my GCSEs (got to hand the sheet in on Monday!).
If you are talking about in the future, then I might consider it FAINTLY, but I doubt it would happen. Yeah, once I am a Flight Instructor then perhaps I will have a look at America for a lifestyle I could get from it (I sure loved our holiday there :)).

I agree that training in the UK is atrocious when it comes to costs, for instance the typical PPL training course will run you back say 5 grand, which is about 8,000 dollars!

Anyway, for now I really do have enough on my mind, but I really do appreciate you for trying to help; a little kindness goes a long way :D