View Full Version : EFT-PAN AM, topic gone missing??!!
BLUEBARON
25th Mar 2001, 02:38
I've been following a very good topic about EFT and Pan-am in Florida recently. ...That was until i've found it's been deleted?
Why? i wonder, have EFT been putting pressure on pprune to remove such material.
A comment WWW please?
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freedom of speech is a great thing!
PPRuNe Towers
25th Mar 2001, 09:31
No pressure at all from EFT or lawyers. The thread was removed because of two posts between them making a series of allegations which we can't check out to our satisfaction here in the UK. Thus the thread has been removed as we have done in the past and probably will have to in the future.
A pity that it has to happen but we won't compromise the continuation of the forum. If two more schools end up on the 'shall be never mentioned' list so be it. No-one at the Towers has ever caused these problems - we just have to clean up the mess caused by the mouthing off here masquerading as opinion and fact.
Everyone here creating and steering PPRuNe did the full route you all face. We all did it without any resource like this - not even the written types that now proliferate. We hate to see it wasted by the spiteful and venal. As with the recent thread on South African schools useful information gets lost amongst the shouting and flaming.
Protagonists who feel like getting up on their high horses regarding this and similar threads might like to bear in mind we see a great deal more of the message content than you - full IP and routing details - and therefore know just how much of this jousting and posturing is coming directly from the commercial premises of those with their own agendas.
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Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
MANDA
25th Mar 2001, 20:26
Hi all,
Maybe I am doing too much research on which school to choose to do my ATPL/IR.
I was ready to commit to PanAm until I saw the topic on EFT/PanAm.
I now feel to have taken a backward step as I am now thinking of alternatives!
Is there anybody out there who can give me some honest feedback.
Thans,
Paul.
BLUEBARON
25th Mar 2001, 21:26
Thanks for your quick reply to my questions.
Lets hope then that people can make comments based on past experiences rather than rumours.
If anyone has any questions about Pan-am feel free to e-mail me.
Such a shame, as our faithful PPRuNe Towers indicated, a valuable and very useful resource occasionally gets abused.
I did not see all the thread on the subject but have visited Fort Pierce very recently and was impressed with what I saw.
Is it an impossibility to try and keep educational discussions sensible?
Take care, VFE.
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 26 March 2001).]
inyoni
26th Mar 2001, 06:18
MANDA
I suggest you look carefully at the posting by Rolling Circle regarding the back door closing for non-EU/JAA FTO's doing JAA training as a start(http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/008625.html). This would effectively rule out Pan Am & EFT. I suggest that if you do go to a FTO such as mentioned you get cast-iron guarantees you will get a JAA license that is universally accepted within the JAA contracting states! If they won't give you one in writing, you will have the answer you seek without further ado!
'I' in the sky
26th Mar 2001, 13:04
I can't see anything in RC's thread which rules out PanAm or EFT. It just seys that they will have to abide by all of JARFCL 1 to gain approval, which includes all instructors having a JAA FI rating.
MANDA
27th Mar 2001, 01:34
Reply to 'INYONI'
I have been told by both PANAM and EFT that they are CAA/JAA Approved for ATPL/IR.
I hope so as I plan to work in UK as an airline pilot without having to do any concersions etc!!!!!!!
Regards
Paul.
inyoni
27th Mar 2001, 03:40
Then Paul, if you have read the posting I mentioned that you should look at and you have had assurances from Pan Am and EFT that you will have no problem with the license, then everything should be all right shouldn't it?
For my money I'd not be betting that the JAA don't get their way, but then everyone is entitled to make their own risk assessment. If I were investing a lot of money in my career I'd possibly pose the same question to the UK CAA and get it in writing from them to assure myself that I'd have no problem with the license, despite all the nasty noises from the JAA Committee. But then I'm the cautious type and I've seen a lot of 'U-turns' and goal-post moving in the past, so there you go!
Good luck!
rolling circle
27th Mar 2001, 04:47
MANDA - Given what you say you have been told, I suggest that you confirm with both schools that, at the end of their respective training courses, you will be issued with a JAA ATPL. If either of them says yes, that is the one you should avoid. Neither school you mention is approved to provide an ATPL course, PanAm is approved, and EFT hope to be approved, to provide the modular CPL, modular IR and MEP - that's all. ATPL knowledge will have to be obtained via another training provider in the UK, there are no modular ATPL knowledge courses approved in the US.
The only schools approved for ATPL training are BAe Systems, Cabair, OAT and WMU. Any other school claiming approval for ATPL training is lying! The only ATPL course under JAR-FCL1 is the Integrated ATPL course (Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.160 & 1.165(a)(1)). There is no such thing as an ATPL modular course.
Mind you, you cannot gain a JAA ATPL from any school. One of the requirements for issue of the JAR ATPL is that you have 500 hours experience in multi-crew operations and no school will give you that!! Wherever you go, you are actually training for a CPL/IR (hopefully with ATPL knowledge), don't be fooled by the wide boys who try to sell you anything else.
In any case, the term ATPL/IR is a misnomer. You cannot hold an ATPL without an IR. If a school has used this terminology in conversation with you, it is a measure of their familiarity, or lack of it, with licensing regulations. You should ask yourself if you really want to deal with an outfit that so clearly does not understand the rules!
The Flying Lamb
29th Mar 2001, 16:16
Night rating took 2 nights...
IMC took just 5 days...
Not once was anything rushed through with - excellent instructing in a professional yet relaxed and friendly environment.
On a previous thread it was suggested that a former student of PANAM was'pinched' by Ben and Trevor to go to EFT...... Well as out of the students at EFT, I was the only one who was previously at PANAM.
I was unhappy with the lack of aircraft and instructor availability at PANAM and I made the decision to go to EFT (I was not once approached by Ben and Trevor to leave PANAM for EFT)
Draw your own conclusions regarding the quality and training standard of the two schools.... I know that I will definately continue any further training at EFT in the future.
Hi folks,
PanAm contract out the groundschool for the ATPLs to an English based groundschool. In other words, you come home for that part!
You train for the I/R in the States and sit the I/R exam in Britian. As part of their course, some extra training for the I/R is done in British aerospace before the test itself.
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As for a fully blown ATPL, that is only issued after 1500 hours in the job I believe!
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Why do aircraft toilets have frosted glass windows?
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 29 March 2001).]