Eastern - BACX J41's Deal's off?

[Redline]

The debacle surrounding the disposal of BACX's J41's gets more amusing with each day.

First the :eek: totally inept upper management get bounced into announcing the deal before there is a signature on the contract, therefore placing themselves straddled across the barrel that Eastern had prepared for them.

Now it would seem that with the announcement that bmi Regional are to compete on many of Eastern routes, they simply don't want the J41's anymore.

Whilst I sincerely hope that the guys and gals at Eastern don't suffer as a result of bmi's announcement, I simply can't help my state of mirth at watching BACX's management creating a yet another catastrophe. No ideas, no strategy, just shoot from the hip and when it all goes to a pile of poo, back to mothership for tea, medals and a lovely final salary pension :mad: .

[foundation digger]

Very good message, I know these kind of people.

[pitchtrim]

Redline,

Interested in BMI regionals plans to compete on these routes.

Could you elaborate, or perhaps point me in the direction of the announcement ?

ta.

[682ft AMSL]

Eastern issued a press release in Leeds yesterday (27th) confirming their take over of the LBA-ABZ route from Feb-3rd. A/c type shown as J41 in timetable.

682

[Cyrano]

Pitchtrim:

This was the report on ATI News on 17 Jan about the bmi regional announcement:

BMI regional unveils Aberdeen expansion
Graham Dunn, London (17Jan03, 12:22 GMT, 393 words)

UK carrier BMI’s regional unit is to relocate its East Midlands Airport engineering base to Aberdeen Airport in Scotland, as the airline reveals that it will launch domestic services from Norwich to Aberdeen this summer.

BMI Regional will spend £4.2 million ($6.7 million) in transferring the engineering base, which will handle the maintenance requirements for BMI Regional’s 11-strong fleet of Embraer regional jets.

BMI Regional managing director Alex Grant says: “BMI Regional has an established corporate headquarters and line maintenance function in Aberdeen, and the relocation of our entire engineering resource to the city is evidence of our ongoing commitment to the region and the investment we are prepared to make in jobs and new air links from Scotland.

The new Norwich-Aberdeen route will pit BMI Regional against UK operator Eastern Airways. The latter, which has operated Norwich-Aberdeen for four years, is responding by increasing frequency on the route. Eastern, which says it has grown the route to now support 50,000 passengers, will add two more daily flights to its existing four daily weekday frequencies from March.

From the same date BMI Regional intends to operate four daily weekday flights between Aberdeen to Norwich – its first service to the East Anglian airport. Both carriers will operate 37-seat Embraer ERJ- 135 regional jets on the route.

Ironically the two airlines began codesharing on selected services last November. A spokesman for BMI Regional says that this codeshare is being terminated as the airline wants to focus on jet-operated services, although Eastern Airways says it is still to be formally advised of such a move. The majority of Eastern Airways routes are operated using British Aerospace Jetstream turboprops.

“We are working with [Aberdeen Airport operator] BAA and Scottish Enterprise to explore the potential for developing further new routes under the funding initiative recently announced by the First Minister where new services are supported, and are hopeful of a positive outcome,” the spokesman adds.

Almost three-quarters of the airline’s passengers are generated from Scottish services and BMI Regional says it has increased passenger numbers on Aberdeen routes by 10,000 over the last year.

BMI Regional also today unveiled its new management team. Working alongside Grant, who already oversaw regional operations but was appointed managing director late last year, will be operations director Capt Bill Hanton, service director Stewart Adams, technical director Ian Davies and commercial director Crawford Rix.

Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

[FlyboyUK]

From the Eastern Airways website:

27 January 2003 | Press Release

Eastern Airways to start Aberdeen-Leeds Bradford on 3 February

Eastern Airways is taking over scheduled services between Aberdeen and Leeds Bradford now effective Monday 3 February, initially mirroring the current timetable of British Airways CitiExpress, which is withdrawing from the route. Flights will operate twice daily, Monday to Friday, with one service on Sunday. All flights will be operated by BAE Jetstream aircraft.

it goes on to say...

At the end of March, Eastern will be taking over a further five regional routes from British Airways CitiExpress, together with 12 BAE Jetstream 41 aircraft. It will also be adding two more daily frequencies on its long established Aberdeen-Norwich route.


Looks like they might be using the 31 on the route initially as they dont get the 41's until end of March

[pitchtrim]

Cyrano,

most informative, thanks.

Redline,

caught my attention by stating that BMI were to compete on most of Easterns routes...so that'll be just the Norwich - Aberdeen then!

[Mister Geezer]

As things stand bmi regional have announced that they only want to compete on one route that is operated by Eastern Airways. In theory the J41 deal is irrelevant on the ABZ-NWI route since it is EMB-135 territory for Eastern.

Eastern have applied to the CAA to lease a Saab 340 from Swedline for a few months until June and I am not sure how this would fit into the jigsaw.

[Redline]

I confess that I started the thread more to highlight the breathtaking ineptitude of the BACX upper management than the plight potentially facing Eastern if as rumoured (this is a rumour based web site) bmi regional start aggressively competing on their routes.

My sincere hope is that Eastern do take the J41's and that they get them for virtually free. Then the duplicitous charlatans that sit at the top of BACX will have more squirming under the spotlight to face.

[HZ123]

The same management run BA as well, do not forget. So if nothing else we are consistant and have a cavalier attitude to most things. For what it is worth confusion reigns at LHR ?

[conniedotcom]

Dissapointing to see that no one seems to give a damn about those who will be "displaced" by BACX dumping the J41's.

Still the whole thing, start to finish, is a joy to watch - even tho' I'd rather be watching from further away!!

British (mis)management are famous the world over for making a sows' ear out of a silk purse.

[Dai Rear]

Time to stir up the troops.
A ranking system has been produced at Glasgow that grades the eligibility of the employees at Glasgow for staying on with Eastern or moving on to other promised jobs “within the network in the UK”
Two of our storemen, one with over 20 years accumulated service and another with 6 years, have been placed at the top of the list for staying on. But they don’t want to stay on. In fact, it is difficult to find anyone who admits that they wish to stay on. There are 2 store jobs available; one in Birmingham and the other in Southampton. These jobs are only available to other storemen who have less length-of-service to save them from redundancy. So the experienced, loyal and long standing storemen and being penalised because of their experience and past loyal commitment to the company! Furthermore, those who do move to Eastern will then lose their flight entitlement and Eastern do not have a company pension.
The ranking system is upside down! You would have thought that the management would have wanted to keep their most experienced staff within the company instead of forcing them to move over to a competitor.
What a way to run a business.

[toontartcart]

BACX are screwing up all the NCL/LBA crews lifes - nothing new there then! Those staff that just want to leave, me included, cannot have redundancy from BACX and we do not even know what position we stand in now. Numerous meetings later and the management are still unable to answer any questions! Not even the CC union can get an answer.

Eastern Airways are apparantly not happy at a tupe transfer of staff, and who can blame them? Why would they want double the amount of crew on BACX wages, which I'm guessing Eastern cannot afford to pay. It seems BA are now getting desparate and playing right into Easterns hands.

All that the BACX crew at NCL and LBA want is to know what position they will be in at the end of March! Will we have jobs or will it end up as redundancy? Once again the BACX inept management are screwing with our lives. They do not seem to realise that we are dedicated, hard working staff who DESERVE better!

All I have to say is that some cracking staff will be an asset to another 'zesty' airline!?

[Buster the Bear]

Transfer of Undertakings. Protection of Employment = TUPE.

Hope your union bods are demanding the transfer is upon TUPE terms and conditions. TUPE law is statute and rather difficult to ignore and easily defendable via the courts of this land for employees. A non TUPE deal means slaughter potentially for employees!

If it is a TUPE take over, it will be costly for Eastern unless a deal with BACX occurs via a subsidy.

Basically, if one company takes over another, their employee employment rights transfer, pension is not covered. Employees can either elect to work for the new company on their old terms and conditions, or sign a contract with the new company and give up old T's and C's.

A good local solicitor with employment law specialty will be able to advise. There are consultants employed to attack TUPE's so beware!

Get sound and latest advice, could be worth a packet if you do.

How do I know this?........................Bear's never lie!

[Caledonian]

G-MAJM J41 arrived in Glasgow today as BRT001P from Southend but in full Eastern Colours, dunno if this means very much though but l cant see BACX operating the J41 for revenue service in full Eastern colours

[Dai Rear]

SOMEONE WHIZZ is off on extended sick leave . . . .
watch this space . . .
he's going . . . . .HE'S GOING . . .


ROB SPERM is off to join Eastern . . . . HE'S GONE!


NEWS IN at 15.15 . . . DEAL'S OFF
Eastern cannot recruit enough Flight and Crew personnel (I wonder why that should be) so they're now only taking half the fleet. BACX to mothball remainder fleet and pay off the unwanted staff that they cannot off-load
MANAGEMENT BUZZWORD/PSYCHOBABBLE QUOTE OF THE WEEK . . .
Our staff are our greatest assett!:p :yuk:

[skidmarksIOM]

Well, I do share the view that this deal has been bungled and botched from day one, to BACX's detriment, but as someone closely involved in the engineering side of it, I can say that it is showing no sign of being shelved.

The details, while not always instantly available, are all getting nailed down and I can see no reason why it will not eventually complete. Of course, with Eastern getting the best of the deal, we all feel cheated and let down somewhat by big BA, but in the long run it will help streamline the company and improve things no end.

One day, the senior management migh trealise that we at the lower levels are capable of holding and acting on information, but until then, we will continue to struggle on regardless. As long as we get paid at the end of the month, well, thats the whole point:cool:

Incidentally, G-MAJM is subleased on a "Damp" lease until the end of March, when Eastern will take it over with the rest of the six:ok:

[transwede]

So if this is true that Eastern are only going to take 6 jetstreams, are they still going to take over all the routes from NCL and LBA? Surely 6 aircraft cannot do the work of 12! I really think BACX need to revise their decision on closing NCL. the airport serves a huge catchment area, the closest alternative being MAN, nearly a 3 hour drive away! Its a shame the national flag carrier aint gonna have a verz large presence anymore. And how long will the LGW route last with Easy moving in?

The one good thing that may come out of this announcement is atleast the crew involved will know whats going on. People I know are still in limbo and gradually loosing it with the incompetent BACX management, both Cabin and Flight Deck Chiefs!

[HZ123]

At the end of the day the BACX strings are surely pullled from Waterside. It appears to many BA mainliners that the company wants shot of all/ most regional routes because we have spent so many years wheeling and dealing with the likes of Brit Reg, Logan, Brymon, Cityflyer etc and most of the loyal staff of these outfits have been messed about by BA for most of the time. For what it is worth it is exactly the same at LHR/LGW but the pain is less, management await the outcome and seem to think that if they do nothing problems will resolve themselves.

To the untrained surely it will be extremely difficult to operate J41s and make an operating profit when flying regular routes within the UK or anywhere else in the EEC. Scotland highlights the problem that most of the Highland routes operated historically by Logan was supported by the HIA and must have been generously funded.

Sadly it is no comfort to you guys awaiting the outcome but the Waterside view is that at some stage soon BA will have to reduce its presence in the regions and at LGW which has been a bottomless pit to throw money at for 20 plus years to my knowledge.

I have seen a number of units TUPE'd and I feel sure that not many of you will be putting to much reliance on that. I can name at least three BA units that were TUPE'd at LHR and their experience for the staff did not work out favourably. In each case within a short period of transfer to a company, that company reinvented itself or sold out and the undertakings then count for very little. Our colleague that suggested a good solicitor has never been TUPE'd I think. Good luck to you all.

[ajamieson]

Eastern today announcing ABZ to Belfast International, East Midlands, Humberside, Leeds Bradford, Newcastle, Norwich, Southampton, Teesside and Wick.

[5711N0205W]

Of which, Belfast started in Jan, Newcastle, Southampton and Leeds Bradford are new, the rest are existing operated routes.

[transwede]

It seems another airline has already stated interest in operating NCL/SOU route but not sure who! Competition for Eastern perhaps or is this the beginning of the end for Eastern at NCL before they've even began?

[Mister Geezer]

On the subject of Eastern and Aberdeen. Watch this space for a possible STN route and the chance of a KOI and LSI run too. Good luck to them.

[johnwalton]

Transwede,

Any idea who has stated an interest? I would guess Flybe given their expansion at SOU, but would have expected them to have announced something by now.

[richardhall99]

think that flybe would be the only one's interested in NCL-SOU...I cant see anyone starting this route without a pressence at either of the airports...Aurginy? Scot Airways (not very likely) or FLYbe..any other suggestions

[Mister Geezer]

Morale on the J41 fleet seems to be hitting a rock bottom at the moment, which is understandable! Flights being cancelled and I was speaking to one person who was booked on a J41 operated service that was cancelled. The BA ground staff member actually told some passengers that staff morale on the Jetstream fleet was at an all time low due to the uncertainty with the Eastern deal etc etc.

Sad times :(

[Dai Rear]

DEAL'S OFF !
Someone Whizz & Mr Magoo here at Glasgow this afternoon and announced the deal is off - just as I predicted on 6th February, and closure for entire Glasgow Hangar. Then they said that they were surprised that no-one knew! See my comment dated 6th February. There was no way that this inept management could be able to take through a complex deal like this with a dodgie crowd like Eastern.

HOWEVER . . .ON THE BRIGHT SIDE
In the words of Monty Python “Always look on the bright side of life de dum, de dum de diddlie dum”
We’ve achieved a great deal! Here’s what we’ve achieved . . . .

5 takeovers in 7 years!
Train and gear up for Dash 8s – swallowed it hook line and sinker!
Transfer to Eastern as a going concern - swallowed it hook line and sinker!
Shat on by two dodgie companies, both with inept mismanagement - simultaneously! Quite an achievement!
Only 4 months ago, 6 engineers from Bristol took company relocation packages to Glasgow being told that their future was secure! Swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Only 4 months ago we recruited other engineers from secure jpbs with other employers telling them that the Glasgow Hangar was the place to be with a secure future! Swallowed it all hook, line and sinker! We swallowed everything we were told!

Other workforces couldn’t have achieved all that. Someone Whizz and Mr Magoo must love coming here because they know we’ll believe everything they tell us! What an achievement!
:ok:

[Redline]

:( Hate to say I told you so...................

Very sad that our lives and our livelihoods are in the hands of such fools. It seems impossible to contemplate that it could be turned into such a monumental catastrophe so quickly, but having met some of our so called leaders face to face I believe that BA couldn't have put together a group of chaps more inadequately qualified to run a sweet shop let alone a complex multi million pound concern.

BACX is a shadow of its former self in the space of 18 months thanks to these charlatans. Peoples lives have been severely disturbed (if not ruined), the business is on its way to total destruction, we can only hope that our friends and our colleagues affected by this can get their lives back in order at the earliest opportunity.