Night VFR Question

[dogcharlietree]

I have never held a Night VFR Rating, although have held Command Instrument Ratings for about 30 years.
My question is; if I leave Bankstown in daylight, fly to Camden to do some night circuits (in a light twin) and then fly back to Bankstown (again at night) as I don't have a Night VFR Rating, should the leg YSCN to YSBK be flight planned and flown IFR?
Up until recently, if the aircraft was over 5,700kgs MTOW, at night it must be IFR. However, on searching Jepps, I cannot find the reference. It may have been scrubbed.

[swh]

dogcharlietree,

Refer to CAO 40.2.1 - you can plan NVFR as long as you meet the following



14 FLIGHT BY NIGHT UNDER NIGHT V.F.R. PROCEDURES

14.1 A particular grade of command instrument rating authorises the holder of the
rating to fly an aircraft of the category concerned within Australia as pilot in
command, or co-pilot, using the navigation aids endorsed in the holder’s
personal log book in the following circumstances:

(a) Private and aerial work flights under night V.F.R. procedures provided the
pilot meets the aeronautical and recent experience requirements applicable
to a night V.F.R. endorsement.
(b) Charter flights under night V.F.R. procedures, provided the following
aeronautical and recent experience requirements are satisfied:
(i) Aeronautical Experience. The pilot’s aeronautical experience shall
include 10 hours cross country flight time using night V.F.R.
procedures including a minimum of two navigation exercises (of at
least 300 nautical miles or 3 hours duration), as either pilot in
command or in command under supervision. Each exercise shall
exceed a distance of 100 nautical miles from the point of departure
and shall provide at least one landing at an aerodrome other than that
of departure, located in an area remote from extensive ground
lighting.
(ii) Recent Experience. The pilot’s recent experience shall include three
take-offs and landings by night within the preceding 90 days, and
either a night cross country flight (of at least 100 nautical miles or 1
hour duration) within the preceding six months or a flight check by
night with an approved person also within the preceding six months.

14.2 The holder of a co-pilot instrument rating may act as co-pilot on flights by
night under V.F.R. procedures, and exercise the privileges of a night V.F.R.
endorsement provided the aeronautical and recent experience requirements
applicable to the type of operation and class of rating are satisfied.

Don’t forget the CARs requirement that you must have done 3 night TO & LDG to carry any other person (ie not just pax, can be a student) in the past 90 days.

Some CASA district offices will issue you with a ME NVFR rating based on a valid ME CIR without a flight test, costs about $20. All they seem to want to do is get the NVFR rating test form and your logbook and give your the unrestricted (i.e. ME) NVFR rating. (CASA seem not have a consistent approach to this some will only do this if you have held a NVFR restricted to SE and a ME CIR)

Just be careful as some insurance companies take the view that you cannot do a visual approach at night if you do not have a night visual rating and plan IFR (sounds silly). This is one of the reasons I understand CASA will issue an unrestricted night rating based on an unrestricted (day and night) ME CIR.

You can plan an aircraft above 5700 kg VFR at night, you may have been confused with JEPP ATC Flight Planning 1.9.1 IFR aircraft above 5700kg can only be operated into aerodromes that have an approach, they do not a need a NAVAID, GPS NPA will suffice in the aircraft and pilot(s) can do it. The only requirement is in JEPP ATC Flight Planning 1.2.2. You must put a SARTIME in if going more than 120 nm from your point of departure JEPP ATC Flight Planning 3.10 (c).

Company operations manuals also may have a restriction on flight planning requirements for aircraft above 5700kg, a lot of them say that all flights must be planned IFR, even circuits.

[dogcharlietree]

Thanks SWH, yes on referring to CAO 40.2.1 para 14.1 (a), so far so good.
On going to CAO 40.2.2 para 6.1, again so far so good.
But when you apply para (b), this is where I come unstuck, and in particular, Appendix 1, subsection 1.1, (c). No good there:(
What I find incredible, is that with 4,000 hrs NIGHT, and probably about the same number of night landings, I don't believe I can fly Night VFR!!!
Recent experience is not a problem.
The section re Night VFR over 5,700kgs I think has been removed. It used to be in Jepps, ATC page AU-504, if anybody has old pages (prior 02 AUG 02).
Can I get the Night VFR rating at BK?

[swh]

dogcharlietree,

I think you may be confusing the NVFR requirements.

CAO 40.2.1 applies to an IFR rated pilot changing to NVFR. It allows you to fly an aircraft above 5700kg NVFR. It also allows you to fly NVFR charter ops. NVFR charter requirements are those in para 14 listed above.

CAO CAO 40.2.2 applies to a holder of a NVFR rating (not you). You cannot do charter at night, cannot fly aircraft above 5700 kg at night.


CAO 40.2.2

3 AUTHORITY GIVEN BY RATING

3.1 Subject to subsections 5 and 6, a night V.F.R. rating authorises the holder of
the rating:
(a) in the case of an aeroplane grade of night V.F.R. rating to fly as pilot in
command of aeroplanes having a take-off weight not exceeding 5700kg on
private or aerial work flights within Australia by night under the V.F.R.; or

If you have 4000 hrs at night, you must have an unrestricted MECIR, therefore you meet the requirements of CAR 5.01A, which covers most of Appendix 1. With 4000 night landings you must have at least two hours in the circuit at night. I would be very surprised if you have not had a route check at night over 3 hrs / 100 nm.

As for the flight test aspect you would have had to demostrate you compentancy to an approved person (ie check and training) under CAO 82 series.

If I were you I would first go to CASA, ask for a NVFR test form NVFR Application Rating application form (http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/form206.pdf) (or print this one out) and see if the deligate at the front desk or an foi will give you the rating based on the MECIR.

[The_Hun.]

Now to throw a spanner in the works, if I am no longer N.V.F.R current but want to do a IFR flight at night can I? the above relates to N.V.F.R. what about N.I.F.R, is there any where that dictates N.I.F.R currency requirements??

[8 8th's Blue]

The rules are a little ironic,but fact of the matter is if you don't hold a NVFR rating you can only fly IFR at night, If you have never held a NVFR rating there is no way you can meet the recency requirements for NVFR flying in any catergory(pvt,awk,chtr).

So to answer your question you will have to plan and fly IFR.

88b

[dogcharlietree]

Years ago....(when flying jet freighters) there was an old examiner of airmen who stated that unless we held a NVFR rating, we were illegal if we conducted a visual circuit or a circling approach at night. He did concede that if we did an ILS on each approach then everything was ok.
I guess, technically, we cannot carry out a visual approach, for an IFR flight, by night (Jepps ATC AU-705) when within 30nms unless we hold the NVFR.
Boy, if that is the case, there has been a LOT of illegal flying by RPT guys, for yonks!!!

[8 8th's Blue]

There is nothing wrong with conducting a visual app at night,its an approach available to IFR aircraft .As long as you remain above LSALT until in the circling area and abide by all the conditions of a visual approach,wx, distance from aerodrome,viz etc. You are still operating under IFR.
The laws are a little strange, you would think being a IFR pilot therefore being able to fly at night in conditions no VFR pilot would ever dream of tackling, they would let you fly VFR on a lovely clear night!

88b

[Dj Dave]

Hi all,

Had this in my mind for a while. it may be a good time to ask, since we're on the topic of NVFR.

My NFVR (SE) is not current. In order to renew it, i need to do 1 hr XNAV at night (and also 1 TKOF and LDG, don't have to do three, since i can't fly CHTR in SINGLE).

Can this be ICUS or must it be dual flying ?

The NVFR CAO recency requirement explains that 1 hr DUAL, ICUS or as PIC within 12 months is good enough to KEEP current, but is it to GET current again

It seems some of the boys at the company rang CASA and they were told two stories, i.e. one said "yeah, ICUS ok". the other one "no, you not current anymore.

CAO only seems to cater for those whose NFVR has not "lapsed" by 12 months.:confused:

[swh]

The_Hun,

Yes in the CARs

Dj Dave,

In order to be "In Command" you must hold the rating or endorsement etc. If your rating has lapsed/expired or you dont have an endorsement you cannot fly "in command" you must be dual.

The only out for this is on the CIR, if you hold a PIFR there is no laid down recency requirements, which technically could be used to get you CIR current again (but this is not very smart, non current into IMC = accident). Again a bit useless unless you have the oppourunity to do it on a private operation.

Also it is illegial to do any charter (single or multi) unless you have a CIR, the NVFR rating authority is for private or aerial work only < 5700kg.

As far as getting current again "a flight check by night with an approved person also within the preceding six months" covers it. Approved person in the charter sense is a C&T person under CAO 82.

[The_Hun.]

swh,
Where in the C.A.R.S. does it say that you can/can't fly IFR at night without being N.V.F.R current. I've looked through CAR 175 and can't find anything except for CAR 5.109 that says a commercial pilot must have carried out at least 3 take off/landings within 90 days if the proposed flight is to be undertaken at night??????:confused: :confused:

[8 8th's Blue]

The thing to consider when we talk about IFR and NVFR is the R. These flights are conducted following different Rules. They are irrespective of each other. Where the confusion lies is when an IFR pilot would wish to change catergories mid flight to NVFR for the sake of alternate requirementsfuel,cost etc. He can only do that if he holds a CURRENT NVFR rating.If it is not current or he/she does not hold the rating it does effect the persons ability to fly at night. It just means they must fly by different rules. Instrument Flight RULES not Visual Flight RULES.


88b

[The_Hun.]

o.k, but even if I am flying under I.F.R dont I still need to meet the requirements of CAR 5.109?? (3 take off/landings at night/90 days)?

[8 8th's Blue]

Hell of a place to fall down on grammer!!!!! What I mean't above was DOESN't effect a person flying at night.(with regard to having a NVFR rating) I wrote does.

Now I'm confused :

88b

:o :o :o

Hun,

Check out CAO 40.2.1(11)

You need 3 t/offs and ldg's as pic or icus day or night within 90 days for charter.
A really good investment is the IFG (instrument flight guide) available at any of the pilot supply stores around the place. Its about 30 dollars and written by the Aviation Theory centre. Just the the VFG your probably recieved from airservices.

IFR flying doesn't distinguish between day or night. If you meet all of the recency requirements then you are current day and night


88b