Decisions, Decisions.

[russelld]

Hi,

I've been mulching through the other wannabe posts at pprune for a few years now. I am in the last year of my A-levels, and will hopefully leave school with 4 A-levels (BBBB) in the summer.

Currently I have applied to University, specifically to read Electronic or Systems Engineering. My problem is the course I am interested in is 5 years long. (Masters + 1 Year Working in Industry). I have always wanted to become a Commercial pilot, but besides half-a-dozen introductory lessons have not been able to complete any part of a PPL (mainly due to financial and time restraints, plus the nearest flying school to my home is almost 20 miles away).

My intention was to study for my PPL during my University career, to emerge afterwards with a PPL and some experience, aswel as my degree.

I thought this would look attractive to a potential aviation employer, but after reading some of the other posts in the forums this delay in joining the industry seems only to disadvantage potential degree-based pilots such as myself. (such as the obvious age increase at the start, pension benefits, promotion etc.)

My reasoning for undertaking a degree is based on the fact that not only is it an area of interest to me, but it's a cushion to fall back on if lets say in 10 years, they replace all pilots with Bender-style robot pilots (unlikely, but not impossible!), plus you can't gaurantee health etc.

I considered applying for sponsorship with someone like say BA, after my A-levels. But am worried that my lack of flying experience would disadvantage me compared to someone who for example has been fortunate enough (read spoilt rotten :eek: ) to have someone pay for their PPL before 18yrs.

Has anyone experience of sponsorship without PPLs/much experience? Would entry at 23/24 really disadvantage a wannabe?

Any advice, slagging off, gramatical corrections welcomed here or via email.

Regards,

Russell

[Autofly]

Russ,

I'll share a bit of my experience with you. I am 26 soon (and have got to apply to the CTC scheme quick!!!) and like you have wanted to be a commercial pilot for ages. I didn't start my PPL until after i'd been to uni because of financial constraints. But have no had one for just over two years

When I finished uni the first thing I did was to apply to BA and I didn’t even get through to the first round of selection and I convinced myself it was because I had no flying experience. Between receiving the “thanks but no thanks” letter from BA I started my PPL and low and behold the next time I applied to a sponsorship scheme I got through to the selection (to fall flat on my face granted). Every sponsorship scheme I applied for subsequent I got through to the selection and was fortunate enough to get down to the final interview with one but didn’t get anywhere. I am not saying that having a few hours definitely helped because I cannot prove that.

Of course this all means nothing at the moment because there are very few airline sponsorships out there now so as you say, go to uni and do your degree which will stand you in good stead in later life should you need to fall back on it. Remember, there are quite a few pilots who don’t start their training until their in their 40’s and beyond. One thing both you and I have on our side is time.

There are a couple of things you could be doing though – go and see if your uni has an air squadron. If so, join it!!!! If you never get into a plane, you’ll be amongst like minded people. Joining the air squadron is something I never did and regret it. Also, get hold of some good aviation literature for example, D.P. Davies’ “Handling the Big Jets.” I have a copy and it’s a good read. Without any PPL knowledge you may find it a bit tough going so maybe get yourself a few PPL books – the technical book for example.

Hope this is of help mate. If your in Bakewell at the moment, you’re not a million miles from me so maybe a beer is called for or even a spot of flying. Drop me a mail if you fancy. Good luck anyhow.

Cheers
Auto.
:p

[P T Flea]

Russell,

You seem to have asked a lot of questions in that post. I think most of the answers you are looking for have been covered in various other threads in the recent past. Try performing a search for relavent information.

The old debate to degree or not to degree is still raging. There are many opinions out there on this one. You are right though it would be great to have to fall back on if you ever need it. You should really spend some time studying the current state of the industry to try and help make your decision. From what I can gather the industry is in such a state of limbo at the moment (with possible impending war) that there has never been a better time to go and get a degree whilst you see how everything pans out.

You mention that you might get a sponsorship with BA. You seem to say this as if it were an option for you to choose. Even if BA were running a sponsorship at the moment (which I don't believe they ever will again) it would be absolutely swamped with applications. You would do well to stand out with no flying experience (proof of interest or dedication) and no degree. If you research you will see that sponsorship opportunities are currently very thin on the ground. The most recent ones being CTC McAlpine and Britannia. In my opinion I can't recommend strongly enough to go to Uni. If I were to type out all the benefits I would be here all night. A degree in a good subject from a reputable establishment will make you stand out it applications. Things are soooo competitive out there that you really need to try and get ahead of the game in any way that you can. Don't forget that Uni is bloody good fun. You will have the most amazing time.

If you are keen to get on with job searching and get flying then it might be an idea to skip the 5 year degree course and just do a batchelors. I never went for the masters as I was keen to finish my degree and launch myself into the recruitment boom (well there was a boom before 9/11 happened). I don't regret doing a short course and now I have letters after my name and a bloody good qualification for applications and if I ever need to fall back on something. I could really type all night on this trying to compile a structured argument for a degree, but just try and do some searching among these threads for the answers.

Hope this helps

PT

[russelld]

Thanks both of you.

Some interesting info for me to consider.

Cheers,

Russ

[El Thermidor]

Definitely do the degree.

That said, if there are sponsorships going, don't stop applying just because you're at uni. Quite a few of the people I've met at sponsorship selections were still undergraduates.

And I'd agree with P T Flea that it may well be worth just signing up for the 3 year course. There's nothing worse than being stuck where you don't want to be. This would also give you two years earning at graduate rates (rather than undergraduate - read minimum wage - rates) in case you don't get sponsored and you have to pay for it all yourself.

[witchdoctor]

Hmmm, depends how much debt you want to carry around. Figure on leaving uni with 15-20K minimum and then anywhere from 50-70K if you need to pay your own way through flight school (likely if sponsorship is hard to come by).

Advice: Well, do the degree. Uni is bloody good fun and gives you a few more years worth of experience to take forward. Also, possible alternative career if flying goes tits up, but don't count on it as a certainty. No guaranteed jobs for graduates of unis any more than graduates of flight schools, but engineering is a good choice as long as you keep your knowledge current.

Take a part time job and get in some flying at weekends or something, just so you can show an interest beyond looking at aeroplanes, but don't stress about actually getting a PPL as you end up going over the same ground again at flight school, so possibly just wasted money. Spend it on as many hours as you can get. UAS a good idea if you want to fly sexy and exciting things, but if you want to fly airlines then there is a good chance you will be winkled out at selection. The RAF don't take kindly to paying for your flying if you wont sign on the dotted line.

Apply for sponsorships, some are on the go right now, and I'm sure despite the gloom merchants that the likes of BA will restart again - it's their preferred route for recruitment. Keep an eye on the aviation press, especially the small ads at the back, and a beady eye on pprune for rumours. Contact airlines now to see what requirements are and keep in contact on a regular basis - another way of showing an interest other than flying.

Difficult time to be going into it, but at least now you can see the potential pitfalls of the career. Weigh up the huge potential costs involved against your likelihood of getting in and paying them off if you don't.