Crew food at easyJet

[pilotofjet]

Does any enlightened person know the reason that easyJet are seeking to remove crewfood for UK based personnel but not Swiss based personnel?

[FlapsOne]

Once again you ask a question about the internal decisions at EZ on a public forum.

For God's sake go to the company forum and ask the question.

Better still, ring the responsible dept at EZ and ask. - or are you just interested in mindless guesswork and headline seeking again.

[pilotofjet]

I take it you do not know then? I cannot access the private forum but what do easy have to hide?Do I not have a responsibility to other pilots to give them the warts and all view of life at easy?

This is a very serious matter. Our conditions are being eroded whilst easy swiss keep a la carte catering!!!

Enter the debate but do not try to give instruction

[Stan Woolley]

It's because the swiss stand up for themselves and the company know it.

It's a message to anyone who is still thinking of joining Balpa - DO IT, even for a few months!

[FlapsOne]

pilotofjet

Over the last several months you have been totally obsessed with the warts!

Think about it. The decision to propose the withdrawal of crew food has been taken by............the management (or a section thereof). You are, I suppose, aware that it is the subject of some considerable debate between the PC and Ray Webster at the moment.

You presumeably know that the management have made no public statement as to their reasons.

So who exactly do you think is going to give a reason on PPRuNe that is anything other than guesswork?

I'd love to know the reason - but no-one on this forum is going to give me that answer!

I think it highly unikely that any of the managers are going to come out with a clear public statement on this forum.

Why can't you get access to the private forum? If you are a current member of the company you can pose questions like yours and you are going to get slightly more informed opinion than on thses pages- just register and you will get access, unless there's some other reason you can't use it!!

Failing that you can use the company BB on the Intranet.

I agree with Flanker - join Balpa and make a difference.

[pilotofjet]

do not give instruction!!!

Have you ever tried ringing easyland..."your call is being answered by a optrix"!!!

If I want to pose a question on T&Cs at easy on a public T&C forum, I will. You are acting like easy management. You mention I will get a more informed opinion on the company forum.Why is that?Are we not entitltled to opinions from other people who may have been down this route?Are you also suggesting that company pilots do not contribute to public forums?

I do not like entering into slanging matches,but I am as fed up of your pro company stance as you may be of my fight for your rights stance.If you look at my posts, I think they are all delivered fairly impartially, and only ever report factual content of life at easy. If easy have nothing to be ashamed of, I fail to see the logic of your riposte to my post.
Our conditions are being eroded, we may have to strike to protect them, we may also affect BALPA members in other companies. They have a right to know what is going on.

[FlapsOne]

pilotofjet

You are not fighting for my rights. As a member of Balpa, I am supporting my union in that battle - and I agree with their current stance.

You are asking a question on a forum where nobody knows he answer. Balpa have been talking to the management for months and they don't know the actual answer either.

Are you a member of Balpa? If so then you already should be well aware of the debate on this subject in recent months. You will also have direct access to the principle negotiator who has spoken to Ray Webster and others about it at almost every meeting.

If you are not a member of Balpa - don't try to suggest to me that you are fighting for EZ employees rights by posting questions on PPRuNe!

ps
Optrix is eye medication or CD polish isn't it?

[Moonraker One]

It was reported in the Evening Standard on 25 Jan 2003 that Ray Webster CEO easyJet was Paid £435 000 in wages and share option of £500 000 plus £265 000 plus £530 000. Good work if you can get it. Some people might say that the savings in Crew Food costs will go towards paying for Mr Websters pay and bonuses. I couldn't possible comment.:(

[pilotofjet]

where did I say I was fighting for "your" rights?I am posting factual content on life at easy and you seem to be getting upset about it?

how do you know that nobody knows the answer? Are you an elected representative to speak for all ppruners?The question which was asked is WHY ARE WE LOSING OUR CREW FOOD IN THE UK WHEN EMPLOYEES IN SWITZERLAND ARE NOT?
I am not asking if anybody knows IF we are going to lose our crew food which, I agree with you, nobody knows the answer to.

I actually want easy to be the best place to work not the worst.

[tano]

Guys, don't get wound up over nothing!! The crew food issue is all about, some pilots, would rather have the extra cash and provide thier own food and others would like to maintain the food stats as it is! So management, i think, are just trying to make a decision to keep everybody happy.

[FlapsOne]

pilotofjet

Actually you said it here:

I am as fed up of your pro company stance as you may be of my fight for your rights stance.
WHY ARE WE LOSING OUR CREW FOOD IN THE UK WHEN EMPLOYEES IN SWITZERLAND ARE NOT?
.......because we are different companies even though we are in within the same group perhaps?

I don't know, I'm only guessing.

If you want to make a difference, join BALPA!

[pilotofjet]

I was talking third person. You do not thinking by saying fight for your rights I was talking about you? I am saying everybody should fight for their rights..individually. And yes I am a member of BALPA.

You are missing my point though. Why are we even negotiating over food in the big picture of things. The company wants to control costs by attacking OUR benefits. I can easily accept the argument to stop crew food on the ground of costs but it must also apply to the swiss.I am not going to even enter into the equation that costs could be cut elsewhere, that is not the purpose of the thread.

I cannot see any point in bickering amongst ourselves, a united front is required.
The point I am trying to make is that our swiss colleagues are not having their crew food "negotiated" so why should we? You argue that it is a different company...It is the same management .

[kriskross]

Could separate AOCs have something to do with it???

[Elmer the Monk]

As we all know the situation with the crew food has come about due to Go pilots enjoying a tax saving, and therefore a cash boost, by not having crew food, and many of these pilots wish to retain that perk. easyJet management have of course seen the financial significance to them of scrapping crew food and have therefore decided that this particular anomaly in our respective Ts+Cs is worth pushing towards the Go way of doing things.

But this is where they have quite rightly met fierce resistance from most easy pilots. Just look at the trouble this has caused.

Do you think they want to go down this road with the Swiss guys when they don't have to? Could be your answer.

[Lord Fulmer]

Here we go again.

It is not a question of being "pushed towards the Go way". Go never had food and never would.

As a result, the Tax Man decreed that 70% of our sector pay was tax free and 30% taxable, as opposed to the opposite at EZY.

EZY management have jumped on to this and found it to be an opportunity to save a few quid, by scrapping crew food. If I were an EZY bod, and my dodgy, but free grub were to disappear with no compensation, I would feel rather disgusted as they do.

What few understand seem to understand it if the Taxman changes his mind, we are screwed. No Food and No Money.

Only with an input from Above, with cast iron guarantees, can this stand any chance of becoming any kind of a deal.

[Bealzebub]

I can see the arguement for the Swiss keeping their cheeseboard although I think it is full of holes !:)

[pilotofjet]

krisskross

I do not think an AOC is given on wether or not the crew recieve food. Indeed, if food was so important to the issue of an AOC, how did easy get one when we did not get food and how can they now remove food at a whim.

Elmer

I agree with you, but the management spiel in the takeover was to adopt best practice.Lets trade up not down.

I still cannot understand how RW thinks that cutting food for UK crews is an acceptable cost cutting measure but he will not cut the same costs with easyswiss.This guy is answerable to a board of shareholders and directors and simply cannot get away with this whilst at the same time awarding himself ever more generous share options packages.

[kriskross]

Pilotofjet

Different AOC = different contracts = different terms and conditions.

[pilotofjet]

Are you saying that when an AOC is issued, the CAA say" now before we grant you an AOC, let us see your salary scales, employment contracts and crew food policy"?.

[RAT 5]

Guys:

BALPA should be able to help with the legal side of this; that is what they are therefore.

Talking to a labour lawyer on the continent, his opinion is that under EU rules management can not unilaterlally withdraw benefits that reduce T's & C's. If the benefits have been in force for a period of time, even if they are not mentioned in writing, then they are considered to be the norm. They can only be removed by mutual consent. They can not be withdrawn, whilly nilly, at the whim of management. First they would have to show just cause, in any case.

It strikes me a simple labour law matter to confirm if this is correct in UK.

[fruitbatflyer]

I can hardly believe I am reading this! A meal allowance, whether taxed or not, in lieu of 'adequate sustenance' will never work with some pilots. Some that I have flown with (over many years in this game) have been so tight that they would NEVER buy their own food when away on a trip. If the airline hadn't thrown them a few scraps I am sure that they would have gone into a coma rather than spend their own money.
Surely the operator should have an obligation to provide at least snacks every four hours or so? Even my dog refuses to do guard duty (i.e. goes back to sleep) if I don't feed her.
Where does BALPA, the UK CAA and the other Euro authorities stand on this? Maybe the Swiss do stand up for themselves while the rest of you are just rolling over on what should be fought on safety grounds, not financial.

[Moonraker One]

The UK government and their agents the CAA stand where ever the UK airlines and management tell them to stand. The UK CAA are like a poddle in the control of the UK airline industry.

[autobrake3]

Erm, the deal that has fallen on my door step tells me that I must pay £1,100 per annum for this so called crew food. Additionally I will lose most of my tax free portion of my flight pay (pay tax on 70% rather than 30% with Go) So I am now paying twice for something I don't want. Can someone also tell me why pilots are expected to pay and not cabin crew ?

[Moonraker One]

Because nasty Ray says so.

So when you have paid for you crew food and it does not turn up what are you going to do? Flights can't be delayed because the crew food doesn't turn up hey CURRUTHERS?

But this will not happen in LPL.

The whole idea is badly thought out.

[Anthony Carn]

The bottom line is that human beings don't perform properly in the short term without proper food and their health suffers in the long term. Proper food means a hot, nourishing, fat and sugar controlled meal, plus adequate time in which to eat it.

The other bottom line is that the airline environment often does'nt permit the self-provision of proper food. Proper food MUST be provided, therefore. Failure to provide said food MUST result in a delayed flight. Rigid rules MUST be put into place.


The letters BALPA appear above qiute a lot !

What have they actually achieved in this respect, then ?

HMMMMMMM ????? :mad: Answer anyone ? How about ZERO ?

Pathetic ! They'll be telling us we can't have proper sleep patterns next ........... :rolleyes:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Anthony, sorry to take issue on this, but. Proper food most definitely does not have to be hot from a nutritional point of view, and just how is a third rate contract meal fat and sugar controlled?

There is no reason why the airline environment prevents one from obtaining one's own food, all it takes is a little planning. There has been a lot of crap talked about hygiene issues too. You dont poison yourself at home, so why should you do it at work?

Two hundred and fifty pilots at Go have operated for years eating their own food, happily, safely and far more cheaply than the near £2000 per year cost (to a Go pilot) of this EJ swindle. Virtually none of the Go pilots want food provided if it costs them money, those who voted yes were duped by the company who cynically neglected to mention in advance that the provision of food came at a financial cost. That is the sort of behaviour that lands retailers or service providers in court, its called "fraud" in the commercial world. Why is it permitted in employment?

The fact is that EJ saw that food was clearly not necessary as Go had proved it to them, and that is very hard to argue against.

[MaximumPete]

Crew food is not a "perk".

Years ago we used to have meal breaks. Good for the CRM as well when you all sit down for lunch and have a stroll round the shops before returning to base laden with goodies.

As an aid to increased productivity crew meal breaks were phased out and crew meals phased in ........ and the rest is history.

MP;)

[FlapsOne]

Agaricus bisporus

Interesting to see that in order to make your argument sound better you quote "nearly £2000" cost to ex Go pilots. In fact the figure is £1100 - exactly! From that figure you can deduct the amount that you normally spent on your own food. Now even if you eat like a sparrow - that's going to take it down well below a grand.

Now don't get me wrong - I totally disagree with this charge anyway but why quote totally inaccurate figures? - it doesn't help anyone.

Another point worth noting is that the Go schedule allowed crews to organise their self feeding with minimal disruption - the easy schedule does not allow that.

Whether it will or not in the future remains to be seen - I have my doubts!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Flaps, nothing wrong with my maths at all, with respect. I am not quoting inaccurate figures, it is those who insist on the £1100 that are being economical with the truth.

Remember that Go pilots lose a considerable sum in the tax break, more than doubling their sector tax bill in addition to the £1100, and that makes far closer to 2 grand than one. Exactly.

And thats the reality thats being hidden by misleadingly quoting only part of the sting. Sure, its "only" £1100 for EJ guys, the reality elsewhere is far worse.

The amount you choose to spend on your own food is irrelevant to this argument. Some do not eat at all on board, but no one, on one whatever spends nearly a tenner per day on self-provided food, nor often even a quarter of that.

I'm not sure how the schedule affects all this though. Don't EJ folk get food from supermarkets like the rest of us? So whats the problem? I accept this is not preferable if youre used to having food provided, but surely its better than taking a big pay cut?

[FlapsOne]

Agaricus bisporus

Firstly - The GO deal with the Inland Revenue expired in January. It would have expired in January regardless of any take-over/merger. There was no guarantee/promise/suggestion whatsoever that the tax break of 70% would continue beyond that date. Do you know different, because the Revenue doesn't.

Secondly - The point I was making was about the changes and disruption to the rosters. You didn't have that problem to anywhere near the extent it happened at EZ - that's what we've been hearing for the last few months. Also you did not fly through the night on 12 hour shifts. I don't want to eat a sandwich that has been in my Flight bag for several hours anyway (health and safety?).

Where do you get the 'tenner a day' from?

£2.50 x 230 flying days (approx) per year = £575 net that your not spending anymore!

Many people don't want to work 12+ hours without food - I know I don't.


The charge stinks - full stop! but it isn't £2000.

[Orangewing]

Just to stick my oar in, Agaricus, crew food is seen as a perk by the ex - Go guys, at easy it is not a perk but an absolute necessity due to our appalling rostering etc. But I think this has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread. The fact remains, however, that for example on a three day NCE trip, on day 2 we report at 0400z for a four sector NCE - CDG, it is impossible to provide your own food at that time of day, everything is shut!! The shi**y hotel we use might occasionally provide breakfast, but not very often!
Rant over, off to pack for a 3 day trip....:cool:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Flaps, we never negotiated the deal with the IR, so we'll never know what might have been, but the fact remains that some of us have lost a valuable tax concession, and the fact remains that COSTS.

Apologies for my maths, I've made a blunder in the calculations - Average sactor pay £800pm, current tax on that £96. Future tax on that £224, ie a £128 difference. That is, I'm horrified to see, £1536. So in deference to your correction it is clearly not Two Grand at all, it is closer to THREE!

Where do I get a Tenner a day from? Basic school arithmetic mate. You yourself quoted 230 working days per year, and that divided into 2000 is pretty close to a Tenner, isn't it? In fact Ive shown above it is rather more, £11.46 actually. OK, it is less for EJ guys, but still over £5.

I had not intended to get bogged in detail, my point was general one that hot food is not the be-all and end-all and that there are perfectly good alternativess to the unreasonable "deal" we have ended up with. I take the point re 0400 starts at NCE, but a local arrangement can easily cover isolated anomalies like that.

The company saw that no food could be done, because it was being done, and they imposed on us an unexpected bill because we didn't think to ask the whole question (and why should we?). That is what I'm upset over. I wonder what the ballot would have said if we'd known the true cost?

Those of us without H & S problems in our flightbags will continue to eat our sandwiches and Tesco meals because we prefer to eat what we want, not fat laden contract food and crisps. For this priviledge we are being rooked of a figure between £1100 and £2600, depending on your situation. And that just aint right or fair, is it?

Oh, and what happens when the food does not arrive? Do we decline to go? We've paid for it. Will there be a refund?

[FlapsOne]

This quote from AL (on the company forum)

First of all, it must be appreciated that the 70% tax relief enjoyed in GO was only valid up until 31st January 2003. The Inland Revenue are engineering a new regime to address the matter of flight crew benefits, and we are now told that keeping 70% would be most unlikely even without crew food. In addition, the all day bar from which many GO pilots bought their sandwiches does not exist in eJ.

So, based on that, what chances of 70% tax relief? It knocks a big hole in the maths!

Also, don't forget to deduct whatever you spent on food anyway - unless Tesco gave you the stuff for free!

The charge still stinks!

BTW - if the food doesn't come.........don't go!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Flaps, are you management or something? I regret that your accounting "logic" is quite beyond me. In my book expenses cost me, not benefit me.

How long do you imagine your employment would last if you took the action you suggest?

[pilotofjet]

It seems this subject will not rest. On a BALPA only website, EZBOARD for those in the know, this subject still ensures a lively debate,

What all seem to miss though is the subject of this thread. UK crews are becoming increasingly divided over what constitutes an acceptable meal whilst our Swiss colleagues munch on , ever so contented. the Swiss have always had an acceptable level of catering, three course, salad starter etc. Meanwhile, UK crews owned by the same management have to fight just to keep crew food.

[Youwererobbed]

Having crew food is not an option but an air safety issue. If it is not on board then crews must have the ability to order food or delay the flight whilst finding some food. It's that simple. If your blood sugar is low then you are not fit to fly. If you fly having not eaten for over 8 hrs than you don't deserve your stripes and you certainly shouldn't be making decisions that could effect the lives of 150 or so people. Start filing CHIRP reports pronto if you guys lose crew food.

This is right at the heart of what makes a good pilot and a safe operator. Accidents happen due to a chain of events, low blood sugar, tiredness and stress are all incredibly important to the decision making process. We are all now trained in recognising the above and should NEVER operate if we feel that we are not right in all respects.

How can crew provide their own food? What if you both turn up with the same stuff? Has it been made in a health and safety enviroment as per the rule for crew food? What if you forget to bring any grub, is that it for a 9 hr day?