Funding the whole thing yourself

[dw499]

I think it is safe to say that the airline industry is not in the best of health at the moment and after having failed to make it through Britannia's selection and the CTC scheme (which seems to dominate the wannabes forum!) I am definitely considering the do-it-yourself route

Fortunately I have always had a second option on the back burner; I am going up to RAFC Cranwell on the 11/2 for Officer selection, hopefully with a view to becoming an ATCO. Not as good as flying obviously, but spondoolies are the issue here...

My plan is to do a short service commision, which is six years (option to leave after three if I really hate it). Clearly I need a salary before banks will even talk to me with regard to the disgusting amount of money required to train! So, can any of you professionals out there who have trodden the intimidating road of self-finance give me any practical advice? Am I being realistic in thinking that I could consolidate my leave and do some kind of modular training whilst I'm in the RAF?

Please help!

Dan (increasingly frustrated graduate)

[easymoney]

If you don't have the cash and no real qualification to fall back on with a decent wage......even if you managed to secure a loan, you'll struggle to make the repayments while your waiting for an airline to snap you up.

Best to take the job with say a three year plan.

Get your PPL

Study for the ATPL exams

Hour build constructively towards the standard for the CPL

Then if you have any cash left the Multi/IR/MCC

Keep your job until you get lucky.

This is only an opinion

em

[Lucifer]

Make sure that you don't say your plan in that way when you come around to RAF selection, as it certainly will not go down well - they are looking for people who want to spend their life with them.

There are however loads of opportunities for training at a discount when you are in the RAF, for example RAF club near Lyneham etc, plus of course loads of people who more likely than not will have access to aircraft and contacts to help you.

[P T Flea]

Hello DW499 you old goat,

On the note of his post does anyone know the rough stats on the percentages of pilots that were initially sponsored? How do the majority of pilots fund their commercial training? I have heard of a lot of pilots that realised when they were in their mid 30's that it's what they wanted to do and so they took the money out of their mortgage. I mean, how many pilots fresh out of education fund their own commercial training and how do they do it? An obvious answer is to get a family member to secure the loan for them, but is there any other way?

I too have failed a couple of sponsorship applications. The impression I currently have is that the sponsorship drought that occured after 9/11 is going to leave every single sponsored course swamped for the forseeable future. There just seems to be such a huge amount of people searching out sponsorship. I basically fell like a lottery ball being tossed about inside a big machine.

Any job that I apply for in the mean time between sponsorship applications will be merely be a stop gap. I could be floating around from job to job for the next 7 years until I am too old to get sponsored, then I will have achieved nothing. I want to get a job that I could get stuck into in the mean time, but there's simply nothing else that interests me.

What a situation.

PT

[dw499]

Thanks for your advice easymoney and lucifer

I intend to give OASC my best shot; my Dad is a Wing Commander so hopefully he can help me to wise up a little before I head up there. I'm sure that salary aside, the RAF will also give me that extra flavour for my CV when the time comes to get those lucrative airline jobs. Adventure training sounds like a laugh, and who knows...I might even be able to blag the odd ride in something slightly more nifty than a 757:)

[witchdoctor]

dw

You don't say whether you bagged any hours in a UAS while doing your degree. That is a factor which may have helped in gaining sponsorship, and it would certainly be of some use with the basic PPL flying at the beginning of any ATPL course - all without the hassle of laying out any money too!

As far as the RAF goes, decent money, reasonable security (until the shooting starts!) and as an ATCO a good opportunity to milk the shortage in the private sector if the RAF doesn't work out. Unlike flying, you should have no difficulty in finding work in ATC, and the money compares reasonably favourably with F/O pay on turboprops and starting salaries for jets, but ultimately the pay is not as good in the long term as it would be for a captaincy.

Keep your options open, and bide your time just now to see how the pilot market develops.

[BMW Man]

Hello Shipmate,
Spin you a quick dit regarding my situation, if you want to know more drop me a line and i'll give you my e-mail address. In Dec 02 I retired from the Royal Navy having served six years as a Navigating Officer from Minehunter to Aircraft Carrier. The only way I can afford to self-fund is through the sale of property, which is making a lot of money down south. Don't know how old you are (I joined at 24, now 31) but get yourself in the mob, and your CV will glow. As soon as you join up, get yourself a mortgage. The RAF have different rules, but I obtained £8500 from the RN for the purchase of a house, interest free, and repayable over 10 years, peanuts! The authority is called the Triservice Long Service Advance of Pay Centre, Centurion Building, Gosport, check out the RN website for details. The Royal Navy is I believe, phasing out gratuity in favour of non-contributory pension. If you can opt for a gratuity in the RAF after 6 or 8 years service, do it. The RN were paying £25000 cash in hand. Not bad for a few years work. Whilst serving, get your PPL and ATPL exams cracked, as soon as you retire, thunderbirds are go!! If you need a chat mate, drop me a personal message. Yours aye, whistle, whistle, salute etc.

[High Wing Drifter]

I have heard of a lot of pilots that realised when they were in their mid 30's that it's what they wanted to do and so they took the money out of their mortgage. I mean, how many pilots fresh out of education fund their own commercial training and how do they do it?
For that reason, I imagine for the operators willing to take on ATPL(F) F/Os the majority of the available pool will be 30+ as presumably the twentysomethings will be in the respective hold pools or in line-training for their sponsor organisations (barring exceptions).

[millerscourt]

I don't wish to be a killjoy but I would not advise anyone to mortgage themseves up to the hilt to self sponsor. If you have the cash and can afford to lose it that is one thing but it seems to me that certain training businesses have a vested interest in keeping self sponsored pilots out of the job market otherwise it would affect their business,so they seem to have convinced future Employers that only their highly tested individuals are any good to Aviation!!

How many times on PPrune do you hear and in Flight those who have self sponsored and are out of work?? Getting that first job unless you have good connections seems to allude most ,even before9/11. Don't say you have not been warned.

[dw499]

Thanks to all for your advice!

Seems there is a real mixture of the wary and the cautiously upbeat when it comes to this subject, but then again we're not talking about any old job i guess. I would greatly appreciate hearing from more pilots out there who have done things off their own back, especially exactly how said pilots managed to sweet talk the high street banks!

Dan