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View Full Version : 55,000 for builders at Heathrow!!!!!


Buster the Bear
18th Jan 2003, 11:26
55,000 wage for airport builders

Building workers on Heathrow airport's new terminal will be paid a "ground breaking" salary of 55,000.

Their union, Ucatt, said the pay rates would herald a new era for building projects in this country.

General secretary George Brumwell said the deal, covering 3,000 workers on the Terminal Five scheme, included on the job training and a good occupational health scheme.

He praised contractors Laing O'Rourke for treating its workers with respect.

Unskilled workers on the 2.6 billion project will be paid up to 32,000 a year.

Electricians on the project are not covered by the deal and are expected to receive even better salaries.

Lou Scannon
18th Jan 2003, 11:38
...any idea how the subs for Ucatt compare with Balpa?

JAFCon
18th Jan 2003, 13:16
:eek: :eek: Well it just goes to show the state of Aviation and the lack of respect we in the industry recive when Builders earn more than Engineers and Pilots.:mad: :mad:
What the point of staying??????:confused:

And i was offered a job last week working on trains that paid more than I'm earning as an Engineer:confused: :confused:

A and C
18th Jan 2003, 13:44
It,s simple supply and demand aviation has thousands of wannabes who have trained them selfs trying to get in to a job , but you try to get hold of some one to fix the roof on your house !.

I dont see a line of highly motivated builders looking for work so the 55,000 must be what it takes to get the staff that are needed.

Please dont think that just because you are a pilot you should be paid more than a builder , the capitalist system just dont work that way !.

steamchicken
18th Jan 2003, 13:46
now that's what I call union representation!

Ivan Taclue
18th Jan 2003, 14:11
Hey A and C,

I suppose you still have a toolbox? Go work on T5, after all
you were ambivolent / omnipotent in Debonair too!!!:) :)

sky9
18th Jan 2003, 14:15
A& C
You are wrong, the problem with pilots is that they have not taken their Directors B****cks in their hands and gently squeezed them like the builders workers do.
When are Airline Pilots going to wake up to their unique position in the Industry?
Stop allowing others to think that we are indulging in a hobby.

M.Mouse
18th Jan 2003, 15:09
I have to agree with A and C.

It is very simply supply and demand.

Why begrudge a builder getting paid that if that is what their employer is agreeing to pay. I am sure Laing O'Rourke are not being purely benevolent!

The best rate of salary increase I have had in the UK was the late '80s when there was a shortage of pilots.

If people are so dissatisfied with what their airline is paying why do they stay? Shortage of jobs perhaps?

It is a free market.

Jet II
18th Jan 2003, 15:22
I have to agree with A & C and M.Mouse - it is simply supply and demand. Skilled building tradesmen are in short supply, on the other habnd there is a queue around the block for people wanting pilot jobs.

I also think it makes a refreshing change too see some genuine workers get a decent pay rate, at least they are doing something useful unlike most of the jobs you see advertised in the Guardian for 40 K

(Sure Start programme manager - Our Programme Managers will: - Have a proven track record of working with disadvantaged, multi-ethnic communities and an understanding of the needs of parents and children and community dynamics.

Not quite sure what community dynamics are?)

spannersatcx
18th Jan 2003, 16:58
Just as a comparison here is the latest advert for VS,

A + C Certifying Engineer

Location: Heathrow

Salary: 29,000-33,600 + Shift Allowance

Closing Date: 24th January 2003


Shift 4 on 4 off - 12 hours

With a rapidly expanding fleet of aircraft that currently total 26. We're not stopping there. In addition to Boeing 747's and Airbus A340's, we have now taken delivery of the new Airbus A340/600 series.

As an A+C Certifying Engineer, you'll accomplish designated maintenance requirements on Virgin Atlantic aircraft, whilst ensuring the standards of airworthiness set by the CAA are met.

You'll have approximately 5 years line or hangar aircraft maintenance experience and the appropriate LWTR. In addition, you'll have proven supervisory and communication skills. Approvals on 747-200 747-400 and A340-300 would be an advantage. This is a hardworking and often-pressurised unit, yet if you're a team player and enthusiastic, you'll thrive in this environment.

In addition to your salary and a uniform, we'll give you outstanding benefits that include, after a qualifying period, private health cover, life assurance, a pension scheme and one of the best concessionary travel schemes in the industry, including seven free flights a year.

I guess you could work on the building site on your 4 days off to supplement that wage packet!!!

Neo
18th Jan 2003, 17:24
Think that's bad? Just as well you didn't see the TV article on Plumbers - 75,000 - 135,000!

STANDTO
18th Jan 2003, 17:42
at 32K, an unskilled labourer will be earning more than a police officer, nurse, fireman to name but a few. In regard of the skilled workers, the pay is incredible.

Just think, some of them might be able to save enough to put themselves through Oxford!

Sir Donald
18th Jan 2003, 18:58
When the thread on the easyjet type rating scheme was first posted , people were saying '' who cares about pay, after 5 years on reduced salary you should come on top''. Bla-blabla bla. Just visit the thread ,it is sickening, but if people are prepared to be s~~~~t, well good for them.
Lets not blame the builders , instead we should blame ourselves for jumping out to anything that will give us a so called ''job''.
So go and pay for your type rating and earn half as much for a job that demands ten times us much.
I wonder what the entry requirements are?.

:) :) :)

Egg Mayo
18th Jan 2003, 19:08
All I can say is "wheres my shovel!".

as for the plumbers. Apparently 75K and above is possible but you've really got to work all hours etc, assuming your not over-charging!

niknak
18th Jan 2003, 21:16
The point is chaps, that the majority of these "unskilled" labourers, are in fact very highly skilled at what they do. They also work hours that would make you turn in your comfy chair, and do not have the job security that we are blessed with.
More power to their elbow I say, perhaps the rates might persaude the BAA to build the terminal elsewhere and stop expanding Heathrow.

JAFCon
18th Jan 2003, 21:46
Niknak.......... as a Licensed Engineer, I consider myself highly skilled at what I do (Some dont), I also work in conditions and hours that would make you turn in your Comfy chair, and I certainly dont get paid 55,000 a year.:mad: :mad: :mad:

Red Four
18th Jan 2003, 21:47
More unfortunately, will probably result in BAA redoubling their efforts to recoup those costs through charges to the airlines; and then the airlines through charges on to the passengers.

hobie
18th Jan 2003, 21:52
flying is increasingly more akin to a "Vocation" these days ........ "Tradesmen" are simply in it to earn a lot of money .....

Unwell_Raptor
18th Jan 2003, 21:55
And don't forget that most construction workers get no sick pay, no medical insurance, no pension, and spend a lot of their time standing up to their balls in freezing mud. Good luck to them, Anybody who thinks the money is too high should sign up.

SpannerInTheWerks
18th Jan 2003, 21:57
nik nak - you are of course quite correct.

"builders" or building trades employees (of various trades) often work unsociable hours which, in the building industry, attract premium rates. The employers appear to be passing some of the benefits directly to their employees (which they are obliged to do in accordance with the working rules of the industry). A bit like airlines who make good profits passing on the benefits to their pilots and cabin crew!!! No working rules in our industry unfortunately.

Also, work of this kind is transient by nature and therefore in a few years time when you are enjoying yourself secure in the knowledge that your career is (relatively) secure, the "builders" may be working in less amenable surroundings for a less than attractive renumeration.

;)

Dan Winterland
19th Jan 2003, 11:35
And according to the Sunday Torygraph, plumbers can earn a hundred grand a year. I'm in the wrong job!

A and C
19th Jan 2003, 12:52
You seem to think that just because you have a pilots licence you should have a job and be well paid for it as a right , well in a capitalist system that wont happen.

When Debonair whent bust the supply of pilots on the market went up drasticly and the demand dropped and so a lot of pilots were looking for work , some of us are multi -skilled and so me (and the big red tool box ) went off and found a place that had a demand for the skills that I have and paid the morgage.

What I did not do was sit around harping on about the fact that I had not got a flying job and getting resentful about the people who had found work.

As for your kind sugestion that I might like to work building T5 if push came to shove then yes I would because it sure beats the dole but right now the left seat in this Boeing fitts just fine !.

witchdoctor
19th Jan 2003, 13:05
Perhaps this is what Oxford have in mind for their Airline Partnership Programme! It's certainly the closest most of their graduates will get to an airliner this year;)

If only I had trained as abrickie instead:(

Luke SkyToddler
19th Jan 2003, 17:47
Bah humbug

Everyone on this website justifiably rushes to cry 'media hype" when an article comes up in the papers alleging all pilots are on 100 grand or whatever massive fictional salary, but as soon as you read the same thing about builders its all of a sudden taken as gospel and an excuse to start up yet another chorus of moaning. I'll bet it's the same reporter that pulled those figures from thin air, just like they do with us lot when they write about us.

I'll take it all with a grain of salt, until I see these builders arriving down my local in their new Porsche Cayennes, anyway :rolleyes:

Lump Jockey
20th Jan 2003, 17:22
Being a builder and wannabe (never-to-be) pilot, it's quite comical some of the posts I've just read through! Unskilled labour, you may wonder, really means you have no specific trade, but can fill in on a number of duties. Have any of you ever tried to fit a mezzanine floor in before, on a base floor that would make the snad dunes of the Sahara look even? Having to jump in and out of you r fork truck all the time while you try and level the top beams off? It is a truelly hard days work building, let me tell you, (and yes, I'm aware you all know that, it just feels good saying it!:p ) But, I agree, 55 large is a tremendous amount of moolah, but I can guarantee they wont all be on that, no where near, and the ones that are will have a lot of experience in what they're doing I would've thought, and will without doubt be putting in 18 hour days. (Laugh will ya, I've done many a month, 6 days a week, on those exact hours, and yeah, you get tired!!:mad: ) You go home and literally feel sick from the disorientation you suffer from sleep deprievation. Not fun at all. But to compare your salaries to a builders, I don't know? I know I'd rather be doing your job, although I know it's enormously stressful and you too have to put the hours in. Both jobs, in their own ways, have the draw-backs! But basically, the top dollar will be being paid so the project reaches completion on or before time. The amount of maoney that will be lost for every day over isn't worth thinking about!!! Hope you understand I'm not having a go at any one here, just airing MY views as I see them. Happy flying! Oh, and by the way, if you do want your roof fixed......:cool:

Skitzoid
20th Jan 2003, 17:36
If you read the small print in the T5 contract there are very heavy financial penalties if it is not completed on time/price.
The "highly skilled/paid" workforce is being recruited on the basis of a no strike deal.

HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD
20th Jan 2003, 17:50
Shame on all of the pro pilots who have risen to this media tosh.Luke and Lump jockey(both wannabes I think) have hit the nail on the head.
Perhaps us pilots have allowed our 100K + salaries and Porshe driving lifestyles cloud our judgement.After all we only work a maximum of 900 hours a year so I suppose we've got plenty time to read tosh like this in the broadsheets.:eek:

flaps8
20th Jan 2003, 18:35
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
SKY9
You hit the nail on the head. I was quite amused the other day watching "Airline" to see the same bloke [who not long back got up at silly o`clock to watch the first flight land at his local airport, LPL i think] a training skipper, describe himself as a "bus driver".
To demeanor our profession so much is very sad and the reason why we are all considered by the movers and shakers as a bunch of sad gits who will drive planes EVEN FOR NOTHING. We do not win our selves any respect either by being represented by that bunch of sad bungling [ and i have proof] leaches called BALPA who litterally are living off your backs!!!.
So don`t whine at 55k for builders, but do as they do and adopt their very simple logic , become inflexible and say F*** off more often.

millerscourt
20th Jan 2003, 20:57
A and C I have to agree with you. Unfortunately so long as there is an ever unending supply of people who are prepared to mortgage themselves to the hilt just to get a basic licence and then carry on to pay for type ratings and take any job for sometimes hardly any salary then one can only expect salaries and conditions to go just one way only. When you add in those who have the cash up front then that merely makes the situation worse.

From what I can see it is pretty foolish to go ahead on one's own these days as certain training organisations have a vested interest in convincing future Employers that only those who go through their so called rigorous application procedures and tests are going to any good for the job,whereas those of us who have been around a few years know full well that is not necessarily the case.

Anyone out there thinking of going it alone think long and hard as you could well regret it.

Homers Simpsons I cannot believe you are a Pilot.

THe Media always hit on the salary of the highest paid pilot in a company and bandy that around as the 'Norm' which makes the Public think we are all highly paid.

Likewise Log book hours are always quoted which again as any Pilot knows bares no resemblance to actual hours on duty at the behest of our Employers. They divide say 900 hours by say 46 weeks and get 19.5 hours per week and all think we are underworked!! Unfortunately it would seem the accountants in Airlines these days have the same misguided ideas.

Gordinho
21st Jan 2003, 06:37
Not sure why it's any of our business what a builder earns. You need at least that kind of money to live near London these days.

HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD
21st Jan 2003, 10:16
Perhaps "Irony" is how Millerscourt would describe the sensation of licking a girder.

PercyDragon
21st Jan 2003, 10:24
The media also routinely report that Independent Financial Advisers (which is what I am) earn 'around 100K a year'. This is, of course, complete B*******. Only 5% of IFAs earn that sort of money. I earn a fraction of that.

As a matter of interest, I was talking to a client his morning who employs HGV drivers. For a top-qualified HGV driver (with full heavy 'artic' rating) the going rate (for a 70 hour week, this is), is around 20,000 per annum. He says that most HGV drivers are knackered most of the time. Makes you think, doesn't it. When one of those massive things goes thundering past, with the driver nodding at the wheel. One twitch of the steering wheel....splat. Crush you liike a bug.:eek:

millerscourt
22nd Jan 2003, 16:28
Percy Dragon I cannot believe what you say re HGV Drivers as I was reading somewhere there was a shortage of HGV drivers and when that happens salaries go up hence salaries of Pilots go down owing to there being no shortage ,in fact quite the reverse.

If your client is only paying 20000 pa for his drivers I am surprised he has any!!! I am told there is a shorfall of 50000 drivers coming as not many want the job ,being away from home ,working nights and weekends etc etc Bit like Pilots really!!! so why are so many mortgaging themselves up to the hilt to become one??

reynoldsno1
22nd Jan 2003, 18:50
What you are witnessing is the consequence of the social engineering that has been going on over the past three decades or so. The apprenticeship scheme, which worked successfully for at least a couple of thousand years, has been abandoned and everyone gets to have a stab at a "degree" instead.
The pool of skilled tradesman is rapidly drying up, and they now spend their time trying to supervise the work of less-than-skilled sub-contractors. You get what you pay for, and the going rate is rpobably considered a bargain.

PercyDragon
23rd Jan 2003, 10:15
Good point millerscourt.

One would assume that the fact that there is a reported shortage should indeed result in the pay for HGV drivers going up.
But I am just reporting the fact that they currently earn around 20,000 pa for a 70 hour week, or so I am reliably informed.

When you think about it, there are a number of good points about the job, when compared to a lot of the shitty other jobs on offer. You're out there on your own. No boss breathing down your neck. You also don't have to be Einstein to do the job. Good chance of picking up a tasty hitchhiker or two...

Also, 20,000 a year is actually a pretty good salary. Puts you well up in the top half of the working population. Up there with the Firefighters.

Might go and do it myself.....

Julian
23rd Jan 2003, 10:28
If 55k is giving you a fit, certain construction projects are paying 40-50/Hr for a guarenteed 40/hr week - depending on commissioning dates can run upto 60-70 hr weeks.

As stated before its just a shortage of skilled labour, not just due to the apprenticships scheme being abandoned but also several companies laid off very qualified staff a few years ago, many of which left the industry altogether - either retiring or going into another profession - you cant get staff for love nor money in some cases.

Good luck to them is what I say, make hay whilst the sun shines as in a couple of years time it could go full circle.