Good Quality Kit

[bootscooter]

Saw a Liberal-Democrat spokesman on the news yesterday, condeming the fact that ( according to Government figures ) upto 25% of HMForces have bought kit, as the issue stuff is not upto the job. Personally, I think the figue is somewhere in the region of 75%, but there you go...
Also, how much ofthis "self -procurement is down to lack of quality, and how much to the inability to get it through stores!:D

[SALAD DODGER]

SHAME THEY COULDNT DESIGN A SLEEPING BAG SMALLER THAN HALF A BERGEN! NICE AND WARM, BUT SHOULD BE CONSIDERING IT PROBABLY COSTS A FORTUNE AND CONSISTS OF ABOUT 1000 DUCKS.

IT DOESNT HELP THAT STORES RAN OUT OF STUFF SACKS, SO NOW IT FILLS UP ENTIRE BERGEN.....(WHEN BERGEN ARRIVES FROM CENTRAL STORES)

HOWEVER NEW BATCH OF MICKEY MOUSE EARS IN STOCK SO BETTER HURRY UP IN TIME FOR YOUR GULF POSTING

[donald stott]

Purchased the following items that should really be on issue within the last 6 months:

Day sack £64
Metal mug (In lieu of mess tins) £15
Waterproof notebook pens etc £25
Woolley hat (In lue of service headover that is too tight)£5
Bush hat £10

These are just some of the items that spring to mind.

If you want to get rid of the cumbersome sleeping bag buy a snugpak version approx £80. Frees up alot of space!

If you are frequently deployed in field conditions it is difficult not to have at least some of the above.:cool:

[mutleyfour]

Agree about the Softie sleeping bag, Softie 6 and 9 are the ones to go for.

One tip is that if you get stuff from cotswold camping and tell them your off overseas, you'll get it Tax free and if you order in Bulk you'll also get a discount!

[solotk]

Can anyone recommend a really good GPS up to £400.00?

Also, softie jackets are really excellent bits of kit, as are the bigger leathermen..

[Mr C Hinecap]

OK - Blunty Stacker alert. I think there are a number of issues that combine and mean we buy.
Firstly, we (MoD) don't buy the best kit and, regardless of what we get, some people will always want the best kit. However, we don't have to have the best, just the right kit for the job. As we all know, we don't usually even get that.
Second - Stores have ALWAYS never had enough. This is often down to poor contracts at the early stages and REALLY p!$$£$ the stackers who have to face the customer - as it is obviously our fault on stn.

On another note - the current sleeping bag is synthetic, hence the bulk. It does, however, give some insulation when cold, unlike the old down bag. Many Regt & pro users of such kit don't use the compression sack anyway. Put it in a bin bag & stuff it into the bergen & it fills all the corners far better & will still squash down the same.

Oh - and it may be legal to admit a fondness for large leathermen, but it is not acceptable to mention it in polite social circles!
:D :D

Pip pip

[Ex Douglas Driver]

Correction - A synthetic bag will still offer insulation when wet, as opposed to a down bag that will end up with lumps of feathers.

A down bag will always give better insulation than a synthetic bag of the same size (in dry conditions, so buy one with a Dryloft or similar outer shell). So you can get quite a small packed volume bag that will do for the majority of the conditions you'll encounter.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I bought a snugpack Softie 12 back in 1989. I still use it regularly and of all the kit I ever bought it has to be the star item.

I was out in it during the recent cold snap and was happily bivvying at -8 in it. Despite its age and high useage its performance is amazing.

Its a disgrace you have to (effectively) buy your own essential kit.

Surely a system of a small personal allowance per man could be devised. This would allow individuals to go out and purchase a few items of more Gucci kit that matter to them. I imagine it varies considerably from role to role. 99 Sqn would want some of the finest wheeled luggage available whilst Private Grunt is more focussed on non-melt boots.

Hell, most airline pilots get allowances and tax breaks for buying flasher macs, sunglasses and impressive looking black cases for carrying duty free, butties and FHM in...

WWW

[5Uniform]

Speaking of kit, does anyone know where I could get hold of a pair of Pro Boots? Ive been after a pair for a while and dont really want to pay £150 for them. Already tried telling stores that I will pay them for a pair but "im sorry sir, you are only entitled to a pair of them if you are given a chit from the doc..."
Any help appreciated
Flash

[mutleyfour]

FG try taking a trip to yur nearest Army camp, armed with a pair of Flying boots........ Im sure the QM would oblige!

[Mr C Hinecap]

Flash - for some bizzare reason, there is no provision for the purchase of 'greens' in the system - its not they won't help - they can't.

Also - try looking at www.altberg.co.uk - not an advert, no connection, but bloody good, British kit.

[maninblack]

£120 pro boots (http://www.militarykit.com)


£99.99
pro boots (http://www.becketts.uk.com)

[rivetjoint]

Without saying too much, whats 99 Sqn's Gucci kit that they "have" to have?

[bootscooter]

C17s:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[timzsta]

When will you moaning whingers realise its called a stores department because it stores stuff. If it was issuing equipment it would be called issues or something!

[The Gorilla]

There is as much good quality kit about, as there is good quality leadership...

Nope I can't find any either!! :)

Nee nah... The next train stopping............

[BEagle]

The clothing stores at the SecOxAirBase do indeed supply, not store! Very helpful and will do whatever they can to oblige. So, playful banter notwithstanding, don't tar all 'stackers' with the same brush!

Incidentally, kit used for flying doesn't have to be 'Gucci', but it does have to be 'approved'. So, for example, CS95 isn't universally approved (as far as I'm aware) as flying kit - indeed, didn't a chap's CS95 belt loops nearly prevent him from getting out of a burning wreck not so long ago?

Personally, I'd be quite happy if everyone wore CS95 for everything except 'ceremonial' occasions. If there was an approved flying suit made out of the same pattern of material for use by aircrew (without the Christmas tree of badges so beloved of many sqns but with, perhaps, just tone-down name-and-flying badge/brevet, national flag and single sqn badge all in NATO green or desert shades), perhaps 'stores' wouldn't need to 'supply' quite so much kit in the first place - just mainly lots of CS95 and CS95 romper suits in 2 flavours, temperate and desert, plus 'matching accessories'! I'm not very fond of the 'prep school rig' of blues, woolly pully and tie - it's a bit too security-van driver-ish for my liking. But better than being mistaken for a railway porter when wearing the old 'Thunderbird suit' as I once was!

[high spirits]

Beagle,
CS 95 flying kit is being trialed at the moment. You would also need to add 'Jungle CS95' to your list which is much more comfortorable to fly in. Rotary aircrew can be cleared to fly in CS95 in certain environments. Incidentally you may see some pilots during the next few weeks flying in green CS95 in a certain sandpit theatre. Thats cos the idiots we work for didn't buy it a year ago after Saif Sureea. Giving all the American cot beds to personnel on Fresco was also a top idea - well done, promote that clown!

[Rude C'man]

I've purchased the following over the last few years ,
snug pak jkt x 2 £50 each
Buffalo jkt ( the biz)
highlander sleeping bag down to - 20 comfort and half the size of issue crap kit
day sack 35 litre
desert boots
magnums
peak multi fuel stove
tranga stove
fuel bottles
tin mugs ( easier to boil on stove plastic one melts for some reason )
sheemags
polar neck and mouth guards
leather man ( i threw the issue cutter away day one fly with a leather man in the pocket )
mini mag lights
nvg compatable keyring torch
laser pointer( used for pointing out fields on nvg recces)
thermal underwear ( m&s) its briliant and cotton
hally hansen lifa tops ( great wicking )
solar shower
and loads of other bits and bobs
I dare not total the cost but neadless to say i find issue kit crap
even the pro boots rot and split and crack as the leather quality is very poor , and yes i've tried treating them with the recommended polish but matterhorns they are better

At the end of the day comfort and kit reliability are the big issues and neither of those come high on the MOD list , its all on the cheap. Any one found a way of stopping desert kit falling to bits yet

The only problem with all of the above: have an accident whilst flying and your probably not insured and if you live to tell the tale in the **** !!!!
shame really cos it the best stuff on the market and the MOD should wake up and listen to its troops .

[A2QFI]

Trained in the Arctic, dressed for the Jungle, going to the Desert! No wonder the US Forces call us "The Borrowers"!

[rivetjoint]

BEagle, Did you ever get your size 8, medium flying boots?

[BEagle]

No - finally the new style ones came along! Stil in the box though, as I've got used to the non-lightweight ones once again!

But I've now got some well 'ard bovver boots ter go wiv' me CS95! Wicked, mate! The odd thing is that they needed hardly any 'breaking in' - and are quite easy to get used to. Nah ven - where's an 'ed wot needs kickin'?

[Gainesy]

There are several candidates in the Downing Street/Whitehall area. :)

[BlueWolf]

Beg pardon for butting in, I'm a civilian, but I am on your side.

In business and industry these days, it is commonplace for materiel procurement issues and questions to be run past those personnel who will actually be using the said materiel.

This is part of a commonsense process intended to ensure that the tool purchased for the job is actually the best one, and/or the most appropriate.

Could this way of thinking have any relevance to the military, and if so, should we suggest it to the MoD?

Just a thought.

[maninblack]

God forbid, Blue Wolf, if they did that then there would be no need for most of the shiny trousered tea creatures that suck away most of the funding.

Now, let me think how procurement goes....

A civil service engineer is in charge
An RAF engineering officer sits next to him so that the RAF have a representative on the team.
Then they have a Warrant Officer or two Flight Sergeants who do the job.
The WO /FSgts are paired with a civil servant who is called "The Supplier" who does exactly the same job but ensures that the Civil Service aren't to blame when the wrong thing is bought.
The Supplier has two or three junior civil servants who shuffle paper. This lot are tasked with finding out what type of batteries the Services want.

When they have got a list of batteries by phoning OC Stores and the QM at various units they then write a list.

They all sit and look at the list then write a more formal list requisitioning the batteries.

This goes round the building to OIC every department that has a use for batteries who copy it and send it back to every OC Stores and QM.

When it comes back they then ignore the amendments because they didn't think of them and then they try and place the order with the vendor who offers the best dinner at Paris Airshow [Only joking, becuase our civil service are beyond corruption :-) ]

After that it goes downstairs to Contracts Branch who refuse to issue a contract because it isn't a competitive tender. Contracts have a team of highly trained Tea Drinkers, normally ten to a room with little visible reason for existing but a hell of a lot better quality furniture because they placed the order. Supply upstairs explain that it is a single source item toi which Contracts demand that it is placed in the MOD Contracts Bulletin.

3 months later every chancer and shark has registered an interest and Contracts then go upstairs to Supply, photocopy the proprietary drawings for your new wonder battery and send them to your competitor so he can bid against you at a far cheaper price because he hasn't spent 3 million quid developing a new torch battery.

The contarct is finally placed with Large Aircraft PLC who then come back to the vendor and ask them to supply it at 1/3 list price and in the meantime the Units that need the battery have been to halfords with a local purchase order.

[SpotterFC]

I bought a pair of Altbergs about 5 years ago, and I can still remember the feeling of swapping them over against the 'old' highleg combat boot - it was like walking on air! Well worth the investment. Got mine for about £80 at the RAF Regiment shop at Honington when on a Range Cse. Don't even know if they still have a shop - but it might be worth ringing around to find out.

Just my .02!

(edit - note to self - read second page before posting - won't make the post look completely out of context!)

[SASless]

With the improving exchange rate of the Pound to the Dollar....purchases in the USA might be cheaper than in the UK. The investment of a few pints of the foaming ale with a US Serviceman at the pub might also get you access to the US Postal system and no VAT. Think aggressively here guys....plus the cross national liasion might be beneficial. Several good outlets in the States for military gear...will be glad to give you a list of top notch places if you are interested.....ask by email or PM and I will send them to you.

[escapee]

Whenever I find myself on US bases (which is quite alot) I always have a trawl around there uniform dept, bought lots of T- shirts for those hot dets, a headset bag etc. Some of the T shirts, I think I got them in Bahrain, are excellent nice and soft and smooth....ahh!:O

[mutleyfour]

If you cant get proboots through the system try here:



http://www.milisupply.com/footwear.htm

Good for anything military including Desert Combats and Flying Boots

[TheSeeFarShadow]

Can anyone recommend some US style flying boot, and where I can get some. As the 1965 pattern ones are so sh*te I had a look at some on the internet (Corcoran, Bates and Belleville) but thought someone might know where I can get them with military discount. Only the Belleville ones wee advertised as USAF flight certified.

Cheers

[bootscooter]

I'd certainly recommend the Belleville Flyer. Very light and comfortable, and made in two levels of toastie! I think the year round boot is the 770 series.

[Correcting-nicely]

If you're after a gucci pair of boots the pro-boots are ok, but if you're set on buying your own pair I would reccomend a pair of Danner acadias of the 1/2 cordura, 1/2 leather variety. I've been using the same pair for the past 8 years, had them re-soled once but they're still going strong, didn't need breaking in and my feet don't get cold unless the conditions are really extreme.

Just to keep the whole 'what kit I've had to buy' thread going - North Face Superlight sleeping bag - 1/2 size, 2/3 weight and twice as good as the issue bag.
American Cot
Solar Shower
US dessie boots
decent socks, shreddies and thermals
sleeka jacket
dessie windproof smock (why aren't these even in the supply system?)
Chest rig
Mag pouches for 9mm which I had a friendly squipper make for me. This is a joke - there is nosuch thing as an issue pistol mag pouch in our inventory, they give you 3 mags, one holster (with a pouch for one mag on it) and a weapon (which obviously takes another mag - if you're loaded) but no mag pouches! Where the hell are you meant to put them? Loose in your trouser pocket?!
Plus loads of other gubbins too trivial to mention.

Thats all just in the last 6 months or so and supplements the kit I've built up over the years. Here's something to think about - of all the kit I have packed the only issue bits of kit are: 3 x desert combats (new lightweight ones - yay!), Helmet & cover, Respirator and haversack, IPE. That's it - everything else is my own, which is a little scary when I think how much of my own money is on my back, but hey - if you want to be comfy it's worth spending the cash on decent kit. I just feel sorry for the lads who don't have the readdies to afford the kit they need.

[rivetjoint]

Agree with your last bit, its all well and good the civvy shops having lovely nice desert gear, stocking up and feeling good in your top notch gear IF you can afford it. It sickens me to think what some squadie families are going without just so Tom Squadie has the kit he should have been issued with when he goes off to the sandpit.

[Scud-U-Like]

It's not all doom and gloom. At least our rat packs are world renowned cuisine. (Nice to see you as Slop-Jockey-in-Chief, Gareth ;) ) :

The Times February 22, 2003

The British squaddie is well fed on £1.75 a day

IF BRITISH squaddies end up fighting alongside GIs in Iraq they will have one strong bargaining counter. British Army field rations, they say, are the best in the world — and easily traded for any essentials the Americans might care to swap.
The British soldier has to be fed on no more than £1.75 a day, which allows 26p for breakfast, 61p for lunch and 88p for the evening meal.

But it is by no means a subsistence diet. The daily rations provide a minimum of 4,300 calories compared with a standard Nato requirement of only 3,500.

“Nobody can eat all of their 24-hour ration,” said WO2 Mark Staples, Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant of 23 Pioneer Regiment, whose 640 soldiers are already in Kuwait. “Everybody scrapes something off the plate, and usually it’s the chocolate pudding. The officers like it, but the lower ranks don’t go for it. A spoonful or two is all right, but it’s difficult to finish a whole portion.” The fighting soldier’s favourites include bacon and beans, corned beef hash, beef stew and dumplings and rice pudding. For service in the Gulf, rice pudding is thought a little heavy going, and has been replaced with Italian fruit salad.

The Iraqi crisis has the Army’s caterers facing a big logistical problem. “We have gone from expecting to supply 40,000 sets of 24-hour rations to now having to provide two million,” said Wing Commander Gareth Williams, of Food Supply Management for the Defence Catering Group.

On the other hand, by good fortune, last April the defence caterers reinstituted the ten-man catering box which supplies cooked meals when troops are in a position to enjoy “steady state feeding”. “Otherwise troops would have been left living on 24-hour packed rations for much longer than the two or three days we like to regard as the maximum,” Wing Commander Williams said. The 24-hour individual rations are, nonetheless, being packed in Portsmouth at a rate of 110,000 a week, double the rate when the operation started.

The troops have a far from unvarying diet. There are dietary requirements to be met, so that 8,500 vegetarians, 3,500 Halal eaters, 3,700 Sikhs and Hindus and 50 Jews requiring Kosher meals have to be provided for.

“Everybody barters bits of their meals for part of someone else’s,” Quartermaster Sergeant Staples said. “Meat-eaters will trade a pudding for a vegetarian main course just to get a bit of extra variety.”

Some notorious elements of the British catering packs, such as the “cheese, possessed” which littered the Falklands for months after hostilities ended, are a thing of the past. The processed cheese, which deteriorated so quickly that most of it had to be discarded, has now been replaced with a Dutch cheese in tins.

“It makes a very good cheese sauce,” Staff Sergeant Steve Mitchell said, “and you can even eat it uncooked.”

The caterers admit that the British soldiers’ attitude to rations is determined as much by weight and convenience as by taste. “The beauty of MREs (meals ready to eat, in army parlance, but sometimes known as “meals rejected by everyone”) is that you can eat them straight from the pack. They are light to carry and you don’t have a mess tin to wash afterwards.” On the other hand, MREs tend to come in large numbers of one particular dish. “You might end up with chicken a la king for breakfast, lunch and dinner.”

The Army is proud enough of its food to have offered samples for The Times to taste. The burger and beans turned out to be a compact and sturdy, even resilient, puck of ground beef smothered in under-sized baked beans. The taste was unobjectionable, the texture tolerable, and the tomato sauce even mildly tasty. Corned beef hash had a curious taste of swede and reheating.

The caterers had managed to round up samples of American field fodder. None looked appetising enough to taste.

[DummyRun]

Beagle,

Ref your comment about CS95 belt loops hindering the egress from a burning wreck, the gentleman concerned is a mate but if he'd been naked and rubbbed in baby oil it would have still been a tight fit thru' the DV window, if you try and stuff a marshmallow thru a keyhole beltloops don't come into it fella.

now of course it would have been a different story in a Hunter......................

[Beenthere]

My thanks to Dummy Run for describing me as, a gentleman and a mate. He then seems to refer to me as a marshmallow!! I was hung up in the wreck by my belt. That belt and lots of other "non-aircrew" kit and civie kit had been issued by the system and the system had known that we were wearing it on certain tasks for years but turned a blind eye to it. When it all turned to rats**** the pain from sloping shoulders must have kept lots of guys away from their desks for weeks.