View Full Version : Impulse Expansion

15th Jan 2003, 06:02
Hi all,
Just wondering if any techies out there can shed any light on the rumour that there are plans for more 717's to join their existing fleet in the next few months?

I've heard a few rumours round the traps that it will definately be happening soon..

Where and how soon?... that is the qus..still a burining desire to work on the 717...

Their recruitment department seems to be a little cagey about this one at present - perhaps for a good reason..:confused:

15th Jan 2003, 21:11
I think you'll find that VQ recruitment is cagey only because if further expansion occurs it has a legal requirement to re-employ the 33 flight-crew who were made redundant due to the retirement of the B1900D first above all others.

If they don't get more than another three aircraft, chances are (this is my speculation only) that there will be no need for anyone else off the street.

Douglas Mcdonnell
15th Jan 2003, 21:21
Wingletts, as usual there is a lot of speculation around regarding expansion. Talking to engineers seems to be a reliable source of good info. I have heard that there will be a decision made within the next 2 months regarding expansion. The problem being that as far as I know the jets now have to be made in the factory as the dessert supplies have dryed up.

I think that what ever happens the future looks rosy for the Pulse guys. Proof that what goes around comes around. Hard work does pay off!!!!

C U on the line.

15th Jan 2003, 22:19
Heard that a substantial number of Impulse pilots are being interviewed by Virgin at the moment.

Does anyone who gets an interview every get knocked back?

That might make way for some of the 33 to return, and therefore even if only three new planes arrive, create opportunities for others to apply.


Sue Ridgepipe
15th Jan 2003, 23:43
Serious question folks, not winding up.... just wondering why would anyone want to leave the pulse for Virgin? I mean they're already flying state of the art jet equipment for a QF regional, so why leave a good job and have to cough up with $20K for what I would see as a sideways move? Does a Virgin F/O get paid lots more?

16th Jan 2003, 00:28
Some poeple want to live in Bris Sue, and that badly.
Also there are a number that are sick of the Impulse BULLSH!T

howard hughes
16th Jan 2003, 02:04
To change the subject a little, does anyone have any information about impulse work conditions.

ie: - Location of bases?
- Pay?
- Number of overnights?
- Opportunities for advancement?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Also good luck to the 33, 1900 pilots sounds promising.

Cheers HH.

16th Jan 2003, 04:52
Hi guys - thanks for all the useful info - just to let you know I'm cabin crew not tech crew .. but ..equally as interested thegrass on your side of the fence!

I'm hoping i might hear something about an interview this month ..;)

Hugh Jarse
17th Jan 2003, 08:00
Sue, do a search on Osiris (http://www.osiris.gov.au/) . Both the Impulse and Virgin Blue agreements are listed so you can make comparisons.

Also there are a number that are sick of the Impulse BULLSH!T Flyswat, I thought you were a staunch defender of the fold :D:D:D

Welcome to the real world of QF Regional Lepers of which we all belong. Reality sucks, eh?

18th Jan 2003, 00:40
To someones question, does anyone miss out on Virgin? yes they do. I m living proof. With all bush, remote & overseas experience, 2 crew turbine Rpt etc.
Yes people who get interviews at Virgin do miss out!

18th Jan 2003, 10:28
Sue R,

Yes the only reason anyone would want to move to DJ from "VQ" would be for the brisvegas base.
The conditions at "VQ" are fine - not flogged to death, nice destinations for overnights, staff travel etc.
Whilst I still have to commute ex brissy to work, it wouldn't be worth the change (the grass is always greener) or $20K. Pretty sure all the "VQ" techs, engineers would agree, not sure about FAs but none have changed camps yet, so that kinda tells the story.

And I always maintain that to those that wine constantly about their work conditions, their plight is easily corrected by writing "I RESIGN" and forwarding such to HR ;)


18th Jan 2003, 21:00
could someone let us know where to apply to impulse. Thanks

Bob Hawke
18th Jan 2003, 23:57
Same here matee, had the interview, and got the F.O. letter within a week (F.O. is NOT First Officer). Similiar exp. to Cleutus I might add.

Not the end of the world I might add; but I did think so at the time, being rejected by a Virgin!. However not everyone can be happy campers there, or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe next time.

If you're with Impulse stick with them, it would be just as good from what I hear.


19th Jan 2003, 00:55

Little point even applying for a tech position just yet - there are still 30+ guys/gals on the seniority list who come back on line prior to any recruiting. There has been no movement lately.

This is the point of contact in any case.



Douglas Mcdonnell
19th Jan 2003, 01:16
Watch Dog, You are exactly right. The conditions are realy quite good at VQ. There are a lot of detractors mainly due to jealousy. I have heard a lot of people critisize the pulse over the years, both those who work here and those who dont. Many openly on this forum and on the sydney ramp. To those who have a problem, leave if you dont like it and to those who work elsewhere grow up.

A lot of blokes here really love their job!! See you on the next walk around HJ.

Hugh Jarse
19th Jan 2003, 05:10
We might have a beer sometime, eh Douggie?

frank Borman
20th Jan 2003, 02:44
What is it? 4 unexplained roll backs now in the last 12 months? no, maybe five rollbacks, but one was explained.

20th Jan 2003, 03:41
Rollback! Ask Kim Beazley about that one, he was an expert on it, the centrepiece of his 2001 election attempt!!!

frank Borman
20th Jan 2003, 04:53
Oh no topend, this aint political! however it will turn very political when two roll back at the same time!!

And before I get hounded by pulse crews, this aint flame bait, just an observation.

Big Jan
20th Jan 2003, 05:47
Umm, What's a roll back ?:confused:

20th Jan 2003, 07:29
are you talking engine rollback, like as in a popular problem with ALF-502s as used on 146's??

frank Borman
20th Jan 2003, 22:11
Top end, roll back yes, not the same reason though, can happen any phase of flight, happened on the 717 in USA a few times, cause unknown in many cases, engine manufacturer looking into it, FAA and NTSB interested naturally, CASA not interested in it, though what would you expect?

Just one of many problems with 717 that will be the subject of AD's over the coming months. Probably why Boeing will be scrapping production of the 717 and going all 737NG.

20th Jan 2003, 23:06
Big Jan,

Rollback is an uncommanded reduction in thrust.

Basically, its a slow reduction of N1 and associated with a high TGT and failure of the engine to respond to thrust lever movement. It is caused by build up of ice on the guide vanes and progressively chokes the engine :eek: .

If it's true about the B717 problems then it sounds like an AD will be required for a more efficient engine anti-ice system.

Years ago a Ansett 146 had a close call when all 4 engines Rolledback :eek: near Mt Magnet WA. I forget all the details, but from memory they successfully diverted to Meeka.

I hate it when I forget a good story.

Oh well, hoss :)

frank Borman
20th Jan 2003, 23:18
Hoss, this is not caused by ice protection, the 717 ice protection is ok, you can have roll back caused by faulty fuel management computers,logic etc, as per what the engine manufacturer and FAA are saying. This is a unique event, not traceable at the moment, happens in any flight regime and can occur in VMC.

We'll see what the engine manufacturer comes up with.

20th Jan 2003, 23:58
Crikey Frank

Why the antipulse717 sentiment. The a/c performs well there are some probs associated with the EEC however she certainly has no icing problems. I would say all airliners have their little problems even your 737ng(chuckle). I believe new versions are under study and that an order for up to 50 i think by an US airline are currently under production.

frank Borman
21st Jan 2003, 01:06
thumpa, wake up, if you read my above post I said the ice protection system is ok. This is new problem, I'm not bashing Impulse, fact I've said nothing about Impulse. The regulator here is washing it's hands of a potentially fatal flaw in an aeroplane that the USA authorities are taking very seriously. The more people that know about it, maybe more can be said in the right ears.

I would suggest you lose the insecurity about something that is becoming a known problem, and channel your energy into learning more about the aeroplane - if that is, you fly it.

21st Jan 2003, 02:15
Franky Franky

Why all the hostility? Chill out mate. I am secure however I do detect a certain amount of paranoia on your part. Quite easy to detect. Please try not to get personal.

Comeon take a few deep breaths. That a boy!!!


21st Jan 2003, 02:55
Back to the original post "Impulse Expansion".

Look on the bright side,QF could get shakey about the B717's,get rid of them and give you guys/girls the 733's and 734's as a replacement ;) .

I'm sure the other Qantaslink Pilots will understand :rolleyes: .

Safe flying, oops I mean gliding :p hoss

21st Jan 2003, 05:06

Before you start lumping the 717 in the trash i suggest you poke around some of the -800 history in Aus since they have arrived. There have been several well hushed up occurences. By the way the -800 flies well on one engine as well.

frank Borman
21st Jan 2003, 05:35

Be very carefull my friend, a quick check of a database suggests no 800 occurrence of significance that the ATSB and CASA don't already know about. All of the 717 occurrences were reported by Impulse which is great. What you are suggesting is NG occurrences that have occurred here have not been reported.

Both of the airlines which operate the NG here in Australia do a great job of reporting occurrences on the NG series, infact both airlines actively work at times to assist each other as to what things they come across with the NG, which I can't say on the Pprune.

To suggets that either VB and or QF are not reporting NG occurrences is blatently wrong my friend. The safety department at VB and QF have an excellent reporting culture

As for tossing the 717 in the bin, I never suggested that at all. Fact is, and listen very carefully, as you may let defence get in the way of what you interpret, the FAA and the NTSB and the authorities here are becoming aware of a serious problem on this type. CASA were notified about it his week.

So like thumpa, lose the defenciveness, read my post clearly a few times to take note of the fact I aint bagging the 717 or Impulse, but simply stating a factual problem which Impulse know about and are taking steps to fix as well as the FAA and engine manufacturer and NTSB and then, only then, will you stop and think about posting some sort of little chest beating post.

I am alot closer to knowing the facts about this problem and other occurrences on other jet aircraft within this country, so don't tell me stories of covered up NG problems unless you can qualify the source, the date, the time, the place, the PIC, the airline and the EXACT nature of the defect, and then, if you have factual data, don't play charade on Pprune, go to the regulator and dob the operator in, but be precise on your facts.

21st Jan 2003, 05:41

SO...whats the goss about new a/c expansion etc ! The suspense thru all this tech crew jargon is killing me;)

21st Jan 2003, 05:53

You had better ask Franky he's the one in the know.

21st Jan 2003, 07:10

As i have no alliance with either fleet type but friends at both, my intention was to square up the perceived idea that the 717 is the only new fleet type having teething problems.

Yes both types, as with all new types of aircraft have had their share of problems. Both deligently reported to the regulators by their operators but not reported on by the press, hence hushed up. I did not mean to infer otherwise.

As you so eloquently stated there is nothing on the NG'S that the regulators 'don't already know about'.

For someone who claims to have nothing against the 717 or Impulse your post seem to be slightly one sided.

Tell us some problems with the -800 if you want to keep it even handed.

By the way if you started your first post by favouring the 717 over the -800 i would be sticking up for the -800.


Winglett to straighten the post. My mates have varying stories but the upshot is that not much will happen till the second quarter
the buzz word i've been told is "consolidation".

21st Jan 2003, 20:30
Contrary to what frank has stated, CASA and the ATSB are VERY interested in the EEC issues on the B717. High level meetings are being conducted as we type to reach a solution. As frank quite rightly said, Rolls are conducting investigations as to the actual problem and possible fixes.

frank Borman
21st Jan 2003, 20:38
ndbfinal, I know the ATSB are on the job:) I'm not sure whether the CASA logic and colouring department are being as diligent as they should though:)

22nd Jan 2003, 08:45
The cause of the EEC problems has apparantly been isolated by Rolls/BMW/Boeing.

EEC's currently are being checked for specific types of faults logged within the CFDS upon each turnaround. Some accumulated faults can degrade an individual EEC's operation to the point where a real problem (in the other EEC) prevents that EEC being used as a failsafe - sorry, a simplistic explanation of an involved process...

Upgraded software apparantly due in March, designed to solve the problem once & for all.

Love to know source of shutdown 717 production rumours! Ex AN engineer within 'Pulse who was involved in 1st of type introduction of both F50 and A320 reckons the 717 sh***s over both of them in terms of reliability etc

How many double flameouts were there initially on the F50 before about '50 engine mods' (not my quote) solved the problem? I'm sure plenty of ex AN guys/gals recall those...

Douglas Mcdonnell
22nd Jan 2003, 20:51
Nicely put Fluffy Bunny. Thanks to a VERY professional team of engineers the resistor problem has been SORTED. Frank to be honest Id be surprised to find that you fly anything more than a 152 in the circuit at Bankstown. Your antiPulse sentiments just show your level of unprofessionalism and child like interpretation of issues.

I have never seen such a bad humoured post. Take a good look at yourself Frank. You are an embarresment to our industry and to yourself. Remember little mate, that airmanship does not stop when you get out of the plane!!

frank Borman
25th Jan 2003, 02:45
Douglas McDonnell, when have I displayed anti pulse sentiments, if you read my post on the other page it's anything but. I think I mentioned things like Impulse are great in getting onto the problem, Impulse are great in reporting the problem. Everyones looking at fixing the problem.

Do you want me to tell you where I work? You know I can't do that on this forum. I moved on from 152's about 12 years ago when I started flying charter and night freight, so no, I don't fly 152's at YSBK. Tell you what though, have alot of respect for the people that are currently flying 152's at YSBK, must be a very hard way to earn a buck these days.

Unfortunately with email and forums, ones interpretation of whats written, is just that. Nothing I have written has been written in angst, more mirth that anything else and a bit of knowledge thats not readily available to the general flying community.

I think you should settle down a bit and get off your high horse.

Douglas Mcdonnell
26th Jan 2003, 04:36
Hi Ho Silver. Away!!

26th Jan 2003, 12:02
Franky, Franky, Franky (Too many Hill St Blues reruns)
You paint yourself as some sort of guru who knows all about everything.
I am a lot closer to knowing the facts about this problem and other occurrences on other jet aircraft within this country."
What a load of [email protected]!
Your statement that there have been four or five uncommanded engine shutdowns on the 717 in the last 12 months is [email protected]
I happen to know the facts so, as you demanded in another of your previous posts
so don't tell me stories of covered up NG problems unless you can qualify the source, the date, the time, the place, the PIC, the airline and the EXACT nature of the defect
Your other assertion of the many problems that will be the subject of AD's that will ensure boeing will shut down production of the 717 is laughable.
What Problems ?
12 years ago you were flying 152's.
Gee mate, with all that experience in the intervening years you must be up there with Chuck Yeager as far as experience goes and I'm sure Mick Toller calls on you for advice. :p :p :p
Wingletts old chap,
None of the tech crew on the 717 know what the future holds on expansion.All I can say is that there are quite a few sweating on a Brisbane base and are hoping that expansion would mean that it would open as a base.:)

26th Jan 2003, 13:05
All I can say is that there are quite a few sweating on a Brisbane base and are hoping that expansion would mean that it would open as a base

I hope none of the redundant guy's are reading this. Jeeze they would be p!ssed off to know there fellow work mates are sweating on an expansion for a base change.:(

frank Borman
26th Jan 2003, 22:18
mppgf, gee, what did I say, a little bit of misinterpretation goes a long way. Oh well, least I won't continue this laughable defenciveness by personal attack like you and the others do. Your obviously the expert here on all things AD and regulatory wise so it's over to you to point out to everyone the real case.

:cool: :D

27th Jan 2003, 02:03
What did I say ?
Well Franky thats the stuff between the Quotation marks "......".
There is no misinterpretation.You painted yourself as the expert,all I have stated is that I know the facts regarding the 717.
I am unaware of "many problems" with the aircraft which would warrant AD's serious enough to shut down production.
So as I pointed out in my last post, your demand for specific details is turned right back at you.
The whole point of my objection to your posting rubbish, is the fact that there is no CASE.
As pointed out by FluffyBunnyFeet (I do love that user name). The problem with the EEC appears to have been isolated and software due out in March will hopefully solve this problem once and for all.:D
Anakin, I really don't think any of the redundant guy's or gal's would hold it against any of the crew lucky enough to have a flying job on the 717 currently, to have hopes of returning to a base that they were kicked out of a year ago.
Expansion would mean positions for these guy's and gals and I'm sure that is all that concerns them regarding the situation at this time.
I look forward to seeing them crewing the 717 in the near future and the Southerns 146 crews as I understand their positions at NJS are not permanent.


27th Jan 2003, 04:11
Oh, Ok then I forgot how you know what those guy's are thinking and all.

27th Jan 2003, 04:37

This is becoming very interesting. Not that I should know but I was unaware that Pilots were layed off 'out' of seniority. I hope another Qantaslink company can help you guys and girls out.

Can I assume 'Impulse Cadets' with considerably less experience were promoted onto the 717?

Poor form Impulse / Airconnex whatever.....

27th Jan 2003, 07:43
yes true hoss. Pilots were layed off out of order of seniority. Cadets were not to blame, It was the 1900 guy's that were told you must go because your only 1900. The 717 guy's employed after you as direct entry will stay on because they are more valueable.
But don't let me influence you as mppfg said (and he works there so he would know)they should be happy with those guy's right? Especially because seniority is so important now!!!:rolleyes:

27th Jan 2003, 10:30
I think it's a pretty safe assumption to say that their major concern at the moment is securing a position on the 717.
While I totally disagree with the way the 1900 pilot's have been treated I don't believe every 717 crew member should have no other thought on their mind beside when the unfortunate redundant pilot's will be re-employed.
I said nothing about anybody having to be happy with the situation.Blaming the direct entry 717 crew members is ridiculous as they had no say in the matter at all.Just as the pilot's made redundant had no say.
Yes ! In my opinion seniority should be the RULE.

Douglas Mcdonnell
27th Jan 2003, 12:05
Too all of our redundant guys. You have not been forgotten. There are people batting for you. Hang in there. Look forward to seeing you on the line.


27th Jan 2003, 23:37
It's true that no 'out-of-seniority' laying off was done, at least to my knowledge. I can also understand the guys on the wrong side of that coin feeling miffed, but life does go on and issues other than their immediate employment concerns need to be addressed also. Their turn will come eventually, and hopefully it'll be a better workplace as a result.

Any anger should be addressed at the lamentable communication that continues to prevail ('tho this should be familiar to all) and the manufacturer of these tempramental EEC's who are probably the ultimate reason why further expansion has not already occurred... Until this issue is solved I wouldn't expect any good news.

Hugh Jarse
28th Jan 2003, 04:24
Congratulations Matt Fikkers.

28th Jan 2003, 10:03
Um, What the Fik did he do ? :)

Hugh Jarse
28th Jan 2003, 20:50
He'll be in the sim in about 3 weeks. Flying shortly after.

Hugh Jarse
28th Jan 2003, 22:53
yes he's the one I'm writing about. I don't know the reason why more haven't gone that way.

I suspect that one reason might be that not all the redundant crew have expressed a desire to work for Eastern, which is fair enough. However, if they were interested they had to go through staffcv at the time as there was no automatic notification (maybe there should have been). Perhaps they weren't aware of that?

From memory, around 10 of the total number have been interviewed. Those that have, were given priority processing over other applicants back then.

It's not too late for the remainder to throw a hat in the ring if they haven't already. 2 days of interviews in Feb.

29th Jan 2003, 03:24
Blaming the direct entry 717 crew members is ridiculous as they had no say in the matter at all.
I wonder if any of those guy's voiced their opinion then when the lay off's were occuring? They probably were not endorsing seniority then. Just a question, Had the EBA been ratified at that time and is that the reason seniority was not implemented for the lay off's. OR, was it just an isolated case (like when the VQ check and trainers hit up for a pay rise only to be approved if it was supplemented from the F/O's wage. So naturally they stuck there hands in their f/O's pocket. And they got their important pay rise)

Just a question that's all.:confused:

29th Jan 2003, 03:50

The EBA was ratified at the time and it gave them the thumbs up to do what they did. Had nothing to do with direct entries. Even if they had put their hands up the company wasn't going to throw $80 000 away with each one.


29th Jan 2003, 10:16
Anakin, In answer to your question.
I seriously doubt anybody in their position anywhere and in any job would put their hand up and as BMC said, it would have made no difference.
Your reference to check and trainers is incorrect.
People who were involved will tell you the pay rise issue was to do with captains getting a pay rise and yes it was at the expense of the first officers.It was supposed to be voted on by said captains but never was.
Rather it was pushed through by a person in power at the time.:(

VQ purser
29th Jan 2003, 21:55
Getting back to the original topic of this thread - Impulse expansion, has anyone heard of any truth to the rumours of a possible Perth base. I know of a certain senior manager been seen over there recently and plenty of gossip around the traps, but nothing hard and fast...

1st Feb 2003, 23:27
Congratulations to Matt. Hopefully now we'll see more of the redundant guys/ girl gain positions elsewhere in the Qantas group while the wait for the 717 continues.

Thanks for the words, Douglas. I look forward to it too.

2nd Feb 2003, 02:38
I have heard whispers of PER-ADL services (from a VQ pilot I spoke with). But that was no more than whispers.

On the YSSY board there is comment that 717s might be used on some SYD-CBR services. I find this doubtful however given the lack of business class.