Financing after PPL ie. Loans

[Spike001]

Hi all

As a new member on your forums :) , i am in need of some advice for the very near future.

I am just finishing off my PPL over the next month or two and i'm then planning on going to flying school. I have managed my own business to finance my PPL to get me started on my long term childhood goal of being an airline pilot.

I'm training in a PA 38 at Shoreham, UK. I have achieved high passes first time in my exams and i'm planning on taking out a loan to finance flying while i'm at flying college.

What loans are available to us pilots who wish to proceed further onto a professional career?

Is it possible to get a Student Loan while at flying college?


Ideally i'm after a loan where i can start to pay back the sum after flying college when i'm working again.

I have 10 GCSEs, 3 A Levels; high passes in Art, Design, and a low pass in Physics. I decided not to go to uni as the debt situation would create problems financing flying in the future.

Thanks for the help ;)

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

There are loans available but looking at you post you dont seem to have looked into it properley.

First of all do you plan to do an intergrated or modular course? If your modular, is your theory going to be distance or in-house? Are you looking at borrowing the full amount or can you pay some/most of it yourself.

Second, do you really know what your getting yourself in for? State of economy/airlines and all that! you say youve got a business, do you really want to give that up?

Dont mean to sound like a killjoy!;) Give me some more info and i'll try and answer your questions:D

[Spike001]

Hi

You are correct in asking if i have done any research yet, and the easy answer to that is..... i'm just starting it LOL.

I'm about to inquire at banks etc for info on loans, but i thought that after seeing what a large community these forums are, i thought that a few might have a pointers.

I'm looking at doing an Intergrated course so i can concentrate on the flying as much as possible, because i've been in my job for the last 2 yrs after finishing college, and now as i'm finishing off my PPL, i feel this is about the right time to do this (as this was my original aim).
Yep i'd like to finish my job because i started it off as a part-time job alongside college, getting bored with it, and eager to move onto something in life which i want to do.

I will be travelling to the different flying schools like OAT, Cranfield, Bournemouth etc to get an idea of what each individual college offers. Also i'll be refreshing my mind with previous maths and physics and then progress onto applying for sponsorship.

I know the prospects of war and the economy isn't sounding at all promising, but i've got an open mind - it might not even happen and also i've got the choice of going abroad to train (a college in a cheaper country).

Any advice on financing this professional career ie CPL/IR/ATPL will be much appreciated. I'm 22 by the way ;)

Cheers :cool:

[Bodie]

I don't want to sound like a killjoy either but.....there are no 'pilot specific' loans.

If you don't have the money yourself, or at least someone to provide it (i.e. parents/spouse/rich aunty or uncle) then your only realistic option is the modular route.

There are some companies (such as egg) that may lend you large sums unsecured (i.e. 15-20k) but at you age (our age) the likelyhood of passing the credit check is low. Even if you passed, you must consider how on earth your going to pay it back - you will be lucky to get a low paid instructors job at the end of it. In addition, 15-20k is only half the amount you'll need for an integrated course.

However, I am considering a Professional Studies loan from Barclays (Typically 10-15k max) which will pay for my IR. I have already managed to pay for my PPL/Hour Building/Class 1 Medical/Bristol Groundschool Course/CAA Exam Fees myself. By the time I need to do my CPL/IR, I will have saved the cash for the CPL so only need a loan for the IR, perhaps an FI(R) too.

An interesting point here is that I have only managed to raise this sum of money FROM going to university, because the pay I get now is substantially more than the potential earnings without a degree. It does, of course, depend on your choice of degree.

Bodie

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

Its good to hear that you are visiting all the schools, this will give you an insight into what you will need to know and which will be the right school/course for YOU!

Apply for sponserships by all means but dont hold out any hope (im not even sure anyone is offering sponsorships at the mo)

Sorry to contradict you Bodie, there is a 'pilot specific' loan, Its the HSBC profesional studies loan for commercial pilot studies. Which by the sound of it, is the sort of thing your after Spike001. You can borrow up to 45k unsecured but they will be looking at certain things i.e. your chances of passing the course, chances of getting a job and also how are you going to pay it back? if you do an intergrated course you wont be quilified as an instructor ether (thats another 5-8k!!!) so you will need to go straight into an airline or you will have to have something to fall back on financally. This is because your repayments, which start 6 months after you finish, will be in excess of £500/month! If you going to do an intergrated course then you are going to have to find around 10k+ yourself as well.

Get your PPL and a Class1 medical, visit all the schools and start putting a plan together. Pop in to your local HSBC and get a profesional studies/post graduate loan brocure and have a read and then go back and discuss it with them. You may realise along the way that you dont want a massive financial noose around your neck!

Good luck whatever you decide!:D

[p.savage]

2wings.

Hi again-

I am,as you know in the process of talking to HSBC. Can you, for the benefit of me and other HSBC wannabes give more details of your loan. It would be much appreciated and would help tremendously.

Paul

[Master Yoda]

This is a tough one, I got told differing stories from the same company (HSBC) the inner London ones are pretty useless, I heard that applying for the HSBC near Flight Schools, say Oxford for instance are 100% more helpful, am I right?
Which branch did u deal with Mr 2wingsonmewagon?


This aint an advert for HSBC so keep it here Mr Moderator!!!

[Spike001]

Cheers guys, you've all helped a great deal even in these early days of research.
I'll be looking into the HSBC loans to find out the other conditions etc of the loan. If i find out anything new which doesn't get talked about on this forum, i'll fill you all in, so that it will be of help to others ;)

Just as an extra note, i've had a Class 1 Medical for the last 2 yrs now.

Thanks

[expedite_climb]

Just a thought - if you are doing an integrated course then why are you doing your PPL first ? It is not a pre-requisite and will just add to the cost.

[Spike001]

I prefered to get some flying experience and to see how i would find the exams. Also i didn't feel that i was ready to proceed on to flying college at the time i had left school, i needed to prove to myself that i was able to achieve my goal, and i am.

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

I dont think its appropriate for me to reveal the branch I delt with. If you ring the main HSBC phoneline (0800 520 420) they will put you in touch with an knowledgeable branch. Also if you do a search for "HSBC and degrees", I think I answered all the questions on that thread.

expedite_climb
When I looked in to integrated courses, the schools offered either a reduction of cost or extra hours (instrument, simulator or twin)

[witchdoctor]

One option which seems to be missed out on a regular basis, is re-mortgaging a property (either your own, or a kindly and gullible relative - I chose the latter).

Not only do you benefit from interest rates you will be unlikely to get for other types of loan, you also get longer to pay it off meaning lower repayments (handy in the curent job market), and you may be able to borrow significantly more than any bank will be prepared to loan you (handy for all those extra costs nobody told you about!).

I appreciate not everybody is fortunate enough to have relatives with a mortgage-free property against which to borrow, but in a (presently) rising property market and with course prices rising just as fast, it is a worthy option to those able to take it.

[expedite_climb]

2Wings - didnt know that, ta.

[Master Yoda]

Spoke to HSBC and rung the 0845 number, I was told that I needed security i.e. a House or alike, now I know that 2wings got the loan with the portfolio and ppl plan he had, how did u get it? did any rich relatives put their signature to security? now be honest mate!!

HSBC are even advising me not to apply without a House!!! I am not even an HSBC customer!

By the way I have only 5 hours on me book and do not own a house! I know of the Degree argument b4 on this thread, becoming a Pilot is harder than becoming a bloody Jedi knight, I should know!!!

Someone lend me £40,000 quid please??!!

:rolleyes:

[High Wing Drifter]

One option which seems to be missed out on a regular basis, is re-mortgaging a property
Yes I agree. What with house prices in the SE having gone through the roof and all.

I plumbed for the Halifax Cash Reserve as you only pay interest on the money that you have actually spent and all at 5% :)

[Inverted kite]

If you do find a bank with enough faith could you please let me know as I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm with HSBC so if they have been known to help someones flying career and the method in which they do it I would I would appreciate it greatly.

[Spike001]

Yea, sure.

I'm currently going through the last exams of my PPL, and it won't be long before i do some proper research :p

[Andy_R]

Now I don't want to seem negative, but so many of these threads about "where do I find a loan for £45,000" etc, never seem to take into account how on earth they are going to be paid back.

Fine if you are one of the lucky ones that walk straight into the RHS of that shiny jet, but this can only apply to a tiny percentage of newly qualified fATPL holders.

Just how are you going to pay back that loan when you find that the struggle for a job takes 2 years (realism, not negatism) to obtain?

Who is going to support you?

How are you going to afford to even live, let alone eat or go out for a pint or go on holiday?

I will probably be flamed big time for this, but those of you who do seem to consider this route do appear to be the younger of years. I realise that optimism is at its' greatest at this age, but unless you want to be risking ten years of poverty IF you dont find that job almost immediately, (and even then at lowish salaries to consider paying back these MASSIVE amounts and live), are you sure this is the right route to take.

This is why people choose to take the modular route. The ability to come out of training without being what until recently was the value of a house in debt MUST be considered as an extremely viable option. And if you have your own business (and mine bores me to death!) it will at least pay for most of your training AND provide you with an income whilst you are searching for that elusive job.

Sorry if this sounds negative, it's not meant to be, it's meant to be sensible, which is VERY hard to be whilst dreaming of that wonderful opportunity to fly. I KNOW. It is very difficult to be both realistic and positive. The thought of people in debt over their head really is starting to alarm me.

Good luck to all

[henchman]

I heard that new loans are available for both 'Modular' and 'Integrated' courses.....and even PPLs via EPTA in Bournemouth.

They are bound to be linked to some sort of status but it's worth a telephone call to check whether you are able to qualify.

Best of luck.

Henchman

[Spike001]

Hi Henchman

Can you please tell me who "EPTA" in Bournemouth are..?


Cheers

[henchman]

Spike

Best to try their web-site www.eptauk.com - stands for European Pilot Training Academy. They are associated with Cabair and the loans for integrated are probably best checked with them at www.cabair.com.

Always best to see the schools for yourself and I thought Bournemouth would be closer for you.

Let me know how you get on.

Regards,

Henchman

[Spike001]

Cheers for that :D

Bournemouth International is one of the places on the cards, as i've inquired about flight training in the past and i seem to recall flight training colleges there.

I'll be flying into Bournemouth around next month when my instructor will put me to test with my RT skills, should be an enjoyable experience.

After gaining the PPL - the ball starts rolling for me :)

[henchman]

Good Luck with your PPL 'Finals'.

Please post on PPRune any news on your loan as I am sure others would like to hear of any money available for their ATPL.

Will watch with interest.

Henchman

[Crepello]

cloud69, excellent posting.

I've seen several folk, mid-way towards an fATPL with 60 grand's credit behind them. Some treated it as money in the pocket and were living la vida loca. Fair enough, that's their business, but the trend worries me so I'll share my opinion.

I've just started ATPL theory. My dayjob is secure and well paid, with a good career ladder. Alas, I detest it with a passion. But I'm hanging in there for the cash - bluntly, I'm sh!t scared of being a penniless fATPL, living on the breadline.

A quick-n-dirty calc: If you 'graduate' 60 grand in the red but earn an average GBP 20,000pa for the first ten years, you'd have GBP 150 per month (RT'03) after loan repayments, modest rent, transport and bills. That's a struggle for one person. With mouths to feed... :eek:

Call me a pessimist, but I'm deeply worried that the coming months will see increased loan defaults from fATPLs - especially those with no skill or profession to fall back on. From what I've seen, some folk don't realise what they're taking on.

That's just my stance on a difficult decision. Hope it works out well for you guys.

[Andy_R]

Thank you crepello.... and there was me beginning to think I was being unduly hard on people. Alas, I feel there are few willing to take heed. :rolleyes:

An additional thought : If one is unwilling to put in the hard work to finance ones dream the hard way and instead relies on the bank for the cash, are they going to be willing to put in the huge amount of effort required to then get a job after training and STILL make the sacrifices to their standard of life to then pay back all that £££££ ? Easy way to make their shiny jet RHS seem very quickly mundane and just like any other job, struggling to make ends meet...... and that takes the fun out of any job, however potentially good it is.

By all means borrow a manageable sum, but £45000??? To me that shows a reckless side to any potential FO's nature. Woe betide if that shows up in airline testing days.

For those young enough, and this post is really aimed at them, go for that Easy/CTC route if you dont have a good percentage of the £££££ lined up to pay for your training.

If you dont get in , then put your head down and work your arse off until you can afford to train. In the current climate you have the time to do just that.

[witchdoctor]

Or get yourselves a rich wife - it works for me!:D

Yours in resplendant poverty in slumtown, WD

[Spike001]

Crepello and Cloud69...

I clearly understand what you mean and respect your advice, but i've been looking into this for a LONG time.

Firstly after working hard @ school after achieving my good grades because i've wanted to become a pilot, i'm not going to throw it away that easily!

The DEBT situation is unavoidable, even if it means getting enough qualifications together to just fly twin props around somewhere to gain experience and hours in something that i love.
I'm not just looking at the possibility of just becoming an "airline" pilot, there are many other flying jobs out there if one just bothers to look.

It takes some time to train up to becoming an professional pilot, and hopefully by then the job situation will be alittle brighter.

I suppose you could say i'm approaching a fork in the road, one way leading off to training to become a pilot, where as the other leads to a totally different job.
As i said previously, i didn't go to uni because of the debts so i've been working my butt off just to finance flying and to live. If i got a loan (which i kinda have no choice in the matter) then i'd still put 100% into it and not treat it like a "chilled holiday" - i'm not that type of person!

If i decided to go into a better job which is better pay than my current job, i'd have to gain further qualifications by going to college then possibly uni (debt........hint hint).. and then i'd have to work in that job for at least 10 years (i can't say this for ALL jobs but the jobs i've looked into which are of interest, require all this).

I'm not willing to train for a totally different job, which requires one to spend half their life working at the place before they get the choice to move on. Most good jobs now-a-days require higher education.

So, this is why i'm staying with the road to become a pilot (i'm not one who changes mind that easily after wanting to do this since the age of 5 (no j/k) and has dedicated their whole life to the subject).

Hope you understand my situation and opinion,

Regards

;)

[Spike001]

I feel the need to appologise if i offended anyone in this previous posting - related to looking for flying jobs.

I should have stated that "I hope there will be jobs available when i come to look", and shouldn't have structured it as i did previously.

NO offense intended.

Cheers ;)