Float training - initial endorsement

[hawk070]

1. TRAINING

Considering float training with a view to eventual employment.

Can anyone give me a 'digger's five' on what level an employer wants.

Are we talking no. of landings?

Open water vs. flat water time?

Is there a PPL endorsement vs. a CPL one?

2. FLOAT PLANES - GENERAL

Also, is the fuselage of a floatplane different to the fuselage of a wheeled u/c aircraft in terms of C of G and the like, or are float planes to permanently stay as float planes?

Do I have to get permission to land on water (assuming G class airspace)? That is, would holding an endorsement be a waste of time in terms of shires/towns not allowing use of waterways?

Are shires and towns draconian with this?

What's the go chasps?

Grateful for any help.

[OpsNormal]

1. Water landings..... somewhere around a couple of hundred.

Hours on floats to be more or less employable........ circa 50 odd (will all depend on the company, and just what they want of their pilots)

Open water is something that no employer will send you out to fly on unless absolutely neccessary. Believe me you can have enough "harder type" landings in even the most enclosed areas such as Sydney harbour (Rose Bay etc), due to the continual swell and wash created by other water traffic.

Not sure on the PPL/CPL ratings (if different), but would tend to believe no differences due to the logbook entry simply stating "float alighting gear", as we Aussies call it.

2. Fuselage of a floatplane is usually had much more anti-corrosion prep work done to it, and has quite often had extra things like skin doublers and what is known as a "float kit" fitted. This is a kit that includes extra braces, stiffeners and other bits and pieces such as stainless cables and some more corrosion proof fasteners fitted also. Some a/c even have STOL kits fitted to lower the float speed on the water's surface (hydrodynamic drag).

The W+B is re-calced to take into account the effects of the wieght and the aerodynamic effect of the floats on the stall, but for the most part the MTOW is much the same as for the landplane version of the same a/c, however this is not always the case. Yes, floaties can usually be "converted" back if required to landplane status (though why you would is a question worth asking). :D

Permission to land is not usually a problem, however some areas are much more noise sensitive than others. Use your commonsense here. Fortunately we haven't gotten to the stage that the US local authorities have in relation to regulating water usage and access.

As it is still a boat while it is on the water's surface, you will be required to have a normal boat drivers licence before you operate off the water.

For the American story on how bad the regulations can be see....

The Seaplane Pilot's Association (http://www.seaplanes.org)

There are also many useful links and stories there.

Regards,
OpsN.

[hawk070]

Thanks OpsN,

Really appreciate the heads-up.

What sort of a/c powerplant-engine combinations produce the equivalent land plane load capability?

eg. will a 182 on floats perform the same as a land 172? that sort of equivalence...

070.

[Throtlemonkey]

Hawk 070 Ive long been considering the same move but haven't had the cash (no mun no fun) to follow through. here's some web sites ive been saving up in my favorites folder that you might like.

http://www.airwhitsunday.com.au/
http://www.aquaflight.com.au/
http://www.vancouverislandair.com/aircrafts.html
http://www.iol.ie/~tmcg/oshkosh/oshkosh5.htm
http://www.sydneyseaplane.com.au/
http://www.tas-seaplane.com/
http://www.dhc-2.com/information_on_the_de_havilland_dhc_2_beaver.htm
http://www.republicseabee.com/

[TurboOtter]

Flying Floats are the best thing since sliced bread!:D
95% of my time has been on floats and it has been great. I also fly Amphibs and let me tell you that any monkey can land on an airport.

If you want to get a job on floats it isn't easy, cause all the operators want and need float time. So you need to show them something else that they can use.
DO NOT send in resume's saying that you can help run the buisness or are a whiz with computers, most of these operators are small and want hard working pilot's not pen pushers and they don't want a pilot that will tell them how to run their buisness.

My advise, get your rating. even if you never use it, it will be the best fun you will ever have getting any rating. Don't worry about flying a Beaver or anything bigger, if you can fly an 180 in rough water you can fly almost anything else.;)

Good luck to yourself in your search and look at the bright side. Float pilot generally get paid more than any other single engine pilot!:D :D :cool: :D :D

[hawk070]

Thanks Throttle and Twotter,

Thanks for the advice. I am even considering doing the big step to Canada with a plan to crank up hours and experience.

Will then reassess and look at options back here. Dunno. It's like you said....no mun, no fun. But I'll get there....


Copya,

070

[Northern Chique]

maybe another suggestion for you......... once you have cpl and 400-500 hours or so with 206 pr 210 time in that...... try alligator airways in Kununurra...... they have a couple of 206's on floats and Ive found them top people to work for. You will spend your first year on land planes to 800 hours or so then endorsement time! You do max hours, clean up alot of bags, meet alot of people and life is what you make of Kununurra....

Both C206's, one of the aircraft is amphib, the other is a floatplane during the season and a really beefed up C206 during the wet.

look em up! Alot of the float guys work for Malvian Air Taxiies out of the Maldives. others work for Pearl in Darwin flying the mallards, and others have various seaplane possies in Aus and around the world.

Look em up!

[airag]

G'day Turbotter, l reckon Aerial Ag ain't too shabby in the pay department either but have to admit with this F*ing drought I'm considering defection !!:cool:

[flyboyUK2003]

www.akunaseaplanes.com.au

A great bunch of guys, they do the endorsement and 50 hrs ICUS on a 206.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

These are fun machines to fly. :ok:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/aaf4e977.jpg

And HARS has one. :E

[disco_air]

try alligator airways in Kununurra

Heard on the grapevine that PQJ is sold and with the amphib MGK bent up, that makes AA floatless?

anyone confirm? :confused:

...disco

[Apgrau]

Hi guys,
I got my seaplane endorsement on a C185 and haven't done much with it yet..It's almost been two years now!It definetely was great fun and worth the experience!I want to get back into it but also looking into maybe getting a Twotter endorsement. Do you know of anyone who might do that stuff?And how much money that would require?
I am doing a JAR conversion and I hear there is a seaplane company in Greece taking off flying the twotters, so I am really interested!
Any info appreciated!
Apgrau.:ok:

[podbreak]

Apgau, you won't be able to get endorsed on a floatin' Twotter in Oz, cos there are none. If you've got an EU passport and want to work in Greece on them I suggest you wait with the endo until you get there. By the by most (of the few) floating twotter companies don't require DHC6 rated F/Os if thats what you're looking at. However, they typically want around 100+ hours float time (some will take you if you've got hull included in that) and a multi float endo :ok: . PM me for more info.

[pakeha-boy]

hawk070.......
great choice for sure,wished I had stayed flying floats as I still believe it was the best flying I,d ever done.
Requirements,(hours landings) change drastically with the supply and demand of qualified pilots for sure,in the late 70,s early 80,s most operaters in Alaska/Canada required 500 hrs of "their" environment time,mainly for insurance purposes and familiarity of those operations,...times change.

When you get some time,PM me ,as I have many mates flying floats in Alaska and Canada,and as of last summer the word was....the ink wasnt even dry on some certificates and jobs were being offered with minimum time.....the work is almost all seasonal...$200-250/day.....7 days /week 14 hr days ..type of A/C Beavers,generally nothing smaller for obvious reasons.

Hopefully if you do the northern hemi run you can work legally as they are keeping a very close eye on illegals,but you will for sure get plenty of time and experience.The web sites already posted on this post are well worth the reading.Bottom line,this type of work is immensly rewarding and an absolute blast....I wish you all the best and as you will never regret it.....PB

[jtr]

Hi p-boy,

sent you a PM

Cheers

[Ricky Bobby]

Are Alligator floatless now?

Anyone?

[1090for2]

You haven't flown till you've flown floats, if you love sitting on the edge of your seat every time you fly then i recommend flying float planes... there is so many things trying to destroy your aircraft/day, but when that aircraft is ramped at the end of another successful day you really feel that a you have achieved something that few others get to.

Nothing beats glassy water in a river for a runway, then 'water skiing' around a bend or two before coming off the step...... Magic:)

Highly recommended

[bushy]

A few years ago I went for a fly with a gentleman in Hawaii, in a C206 on floats. He showed me how he lifted one float out of the water on takeoff, to reduce the water drag so it go fast enough to fly.
He had 27,000 hours on seaplanes, and was trying for 29,000 hourswhich he said was the highest total he knew of.

[OpsNormal]

A few years ago I went for a fly with a gentleman in Hawaii, in a C206 on floats. He showed me how he lifted one float out of the water on takeoff, to reduce the water drag so it go fast enough to fly.
He had 27,000 hours on seaplanes, and was trying for 29,000 hourswhich he said was the highest total he knew of.

That method/technique is quite normal for heavy and/or glassy water situations. The reduction in hydrodynamic drag is quite marked. It can also be utilised in crosswind conditions where an into wind take-off is not achievable.

[1090for2]

That method/technique is quite normal for heavy and/or glassy water situations.

That is the excuse anyway...... its just more fun :)

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Floats are OK, most people that can't handle Hull opt for Float, it's all right, i understand :p .

[OpsNormal]

That is the excuse anyway...... its just more fun :)

Don't tell them that, they'll all want to do it!

Lefty, don't go there - both variants of water bourne machine are equally intent of returning to their state of most positive stability.... you know the rest.

[iwillflyajet]

Pakeha Boy says.........."When you get some time,PM me ,as I have many mates flying floats in Alaska and Canada,and as of last summer the word was....the ink wasnt even dry on some certificates and jobs were being offered with minimum time.....the work is almost all seasonal...$200-250/day.....7 days /week 14 hr days ..type of A/C Beavers,generally nothing smaller for obvious reasons".


Pakeha Boy...... I found your comments about getting employment as a floatplane pilot here in Canada to be untrue. Canadians who do their float rating here have trouble getting onto a C180 or even a C185 for the summer. the reason being is that most operators out there want pilots with at least 500 - 1000 hrs float time to even fly a C185 or a 206.
So why would a employer offer a job to a guy who has 7 hrs float flying experience flying a beaver which is now worth a lot of money. $ 1 million plus I believe.

I had two job offers to fly floats one on a beaver and another on a 206. I turned them both down because I got offered a multi IFR gig in BC. I didnt have a fresh rating like most people. I had 1200 hrs of float flying in very demanding conditions on the Gold Coast.
I wouldnt even try Canada unless you have landed immigrant status, citizenship, or a one year working visa. Check out www.avcanada.ca
lots of useful information there and check out the job section.

I have heard that there will be a shortage of experienced float pilots coming up next summer, if the current hiring continues with the airlines here in Canada. so if you do have 1000 hrs plus on floats you should not have a problem getting a float job with a one year working visa.

Pakeha boy dont indulge in hanger talk if you dont know the facts.:=