View Full Version : UAL to finish LAX/AKL/LAX

10th Jan 2003, 04:41
Havnt got all the details yet, but UAL have said they will stop flying LAX/AKL from the end of March. Not enough $$.
That leaves NZ and QF.
Cant speak for QF, but NZ's current 2 direct flights a day are full.

10th Jan 2003, 05:34
Dow Jones

Friday January 10, 12:14 PM
INTERVIEW: Air NZ/United -3: Cites Lower Costs

WELLINGTON (Dow Jones)--UAL Corp.'s United Airline's withdrawal from the U.S. to New Zealand route will make Air New Zealand more profitable, the New Zealand airline's chief financial officer said Friday.
United announced Friday it will stop flying the route from March 30 because it is losing money.

Air New Zealand's Shane Warbrick said Air NZ is turning a profit on the route and the United decision will make it more profitable.

"It's not an unprofitable route Auckland to L.A. for us," Warbrick told Dow Jones Newswires. "No doubt this will improve it."

Air New Zealand will increase its capacity on the route, he said.

"We'll have to find a way to increase capacity to make up for United," Warbrick said. Air New Zealand currently flies twice daily between Auckland and Los Angeles.

Warbrick said there has been a reduction in yields and passenger numbers between New Zealand and the U.S.

Warbrick said Air New Zealand had made a profit on the route where United had failed because it had lower costs. But he said he does not believe Air New Zealand squeezed United out of the New Zealand market.

Air New Zealand only heard of United's decision Friday and had not had time to plan by how much it would increase its capacity to the U.S., said Warbrick.

Following United's withdrawal, Qantas and Air New Zealand will be the only airlines flying direct from New Zealand to the U.S.

The two airlines signed a NZ$550 million deal in December for Qantas to take a 22.5% stake in Air New Zealand through the issue of new shares, and the deal will see the two airlines cooperate across all routes if it comes into force.

However, it needs approval from competition watchdogs in Australia and New Zealand and one of the factors they will be considering is the effect of the deal on competition.

Air New Zealand and United are both members of the Star Alliance airline group and Warbrick said Air NZ "will do everything we can to help United through this process," including taking passengers booked on United after it stops flying the route, said Warbrick.

Qantas currently flies once a day from New Zealand to the U.S., only half as much as Air New Zealand.

- By Christopher Niesche, Dow Jones Newswires; 64-4-471-5990; [email protected]

10th Jan 2003, 10:00
Does anyone have any views on whether this could trigger SQ into an Australian operation to the west coast of the U.S.

Are SQ's domestic ambitions really dead and buried? :confused:

chimbu warrior
10th Jan 2003, 23:39
I don't doubt that SQ have ambitions.......................... but what they lack is the fifth freedom rights. Not easily acquired either, although with the wallys we have in Canberra nowadays, anything is possible.

Buster Hyman
11th Jan 2003, 12:16
Bring back CO!!!! :rolleyes:

11th Jan 2003, 14:02
Now they were a quality organisation Buster, I used to remember when AN used to handle them that the boys had to go and grab their crow bars to get the containers out of the DC-10s. During a lot of trips to the US we had 2 air turnbacks, and a APU fire, lights used to flash in the cabin during the night, wet carpets from leaking toilets, always an experience! They were always pretty full though!

Buster Hyman
11th Jan 2003, 21:57
They were full because they were cheap & had a stupid reward system. Basically, they were full of cheap or free fares. They've turned it around though, probably too smart now to come back!

frank Borman
12th Jan 2003, 05:12
The "wallys" in Canberra would do anyhting but let SQ start in Australia. Believe me, the rumours of SQ starting are just that. They are rumours started by vested interests to try and get SQ to declare their hand early, whatever way they will go. Nope, while you have Howard in the seat, you won't see SQ here. in fact, you won't see SQ here period.

SQ now lack the guts to start here, their run has been left far too late, they have been spooked by failings around the globe, and they have seen how hard ot would be to break the QF monopoly.

SQ needed Australia, in fact still need Australia to expand beyond Singapore, but like I said, they have left their run too late. You won't see them here, beleive me.

12th Jan 2003, 06:07
SQ won't do anything domestically unless Canberra decides to an open skies agreement,. The one on offer from Singapore is worth five-eights of..... to QF!
Without that agreement, which the government has made it clear it is not buying, SQ ain't planning to fly Australian skies.
And any suggestion SQ might buy into Virgin Blue just seems silly. They own 50 percent of Virgin Atlantic which hasn't turned out to be a goldmine and seem to have grown tired of Mr Branson.
Loos like the same old duopoly again folks

12th Jan 2003, 22:22
No-one ever seems to have answered the basic SQ question - why would they ever want to start up a domestic Oz operation that is guaranteed to lose money (and much more than the additional feed to their international flts)?

Until that question is answered, why would SQ even think of it?

13th Jan 2003, 03:34
Mon "Courier Mail"

Harsh reality, Qantas tells ACCC
By Steve Creedy

THE decision by United Airlines to axe services to New Zealand was driven by commercial rather than competitive considerations, Qantas said yesterday.

Acting Qantas chief executive Peter Gregg responded to comments that the move would increase the concerns of competition watchdogs. He said that, rather than worries about competition, the move highlighted concerns about the US carrier and the world aviation industry.

"United Airlines said its Auckland flight had suffered from falling passenger numbers and lower fares that made its services unprofitable," Mr Gregg said.

"This is the reality. Everyone should be wary of trying to socially engineer an artificial competitive outcome in the face of this reality."

Ross Jones of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said on Friday that the withdrawal of United would enhance concerns about competition across the Pacific.

The debt-laden US carrier, which is reorganising under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, made the shock announcement after the close of business in New Zealand on Friday.

But the airline reaffirmed its commitment to flights to the US from Sydney and Melbourne which are understood to be among the more profitable routes in its international network.

Qantas officials said that other US airlines or Singapore Airlines already had the rights to fly between Auckland and the US.

They say they would expect other airlines to start services on the route if they "see it as viable".

Qantas flies daily from Auckland to the US and operates more than 30 services each week across the Pacific.

Mr Gregg emphasised the importance of the US routes to Australian tourism and business and said the recent decision to invest in long-range Boeing 747-400ER aircraft underscored the airline's commitment to Pacific services.

Nonetheless, the decision might add impetus to discussions about an open-skies agreement that could allow Singapore Airlines to start services between Australia and the US.

The United decision comes as Cathay Pacific this weekend announced it had gained permission to code share to 20 US cities with Oneworld partner American Airlines.

The airline said the decision would allow its Australian customers to buy tickets using Cathay reservation codes on flights to major cities across the continent.

Eastwest Loco
13th Jan 2003, 09:16
The simple fact is that fares out of the "Land of the Wrong White Crowd" are based on the NZ dollar - just as US fares are based in USDs. The fares are very comparable in actual dollar value from either end - ie: a passenger departing NZ for the US may pay NZD2000 for his fare when a similar passenger departing the UD would be up for USD2000. That is over simplified but very close to the core. The yield just isnt there, and the higher yield business traffic is simply not New Zealands forte.

Great vacation destination, but the holidaymaker is not looking for a big price airfare.

If UA is serious about trading out of chapter 11, then this move makes a great deal of sense.

As for Continental coming back - ohhhhh Buster - give us all a break!! The last time they were operating the big old 3 holer into Aus they were running on dead reckoning navigation as all their INS systems had been removed and sold off.

I adore the DC10, the best wide body ever created, but even Garuda has to be a step up.

Best all

EWL:eek: :eek:

13th Jan 2003, 10:35
By Mark Todd and agencies
January 13 2003

Qantas has warned those scrutinising its deal with Air New Zealand to face "reality" after reports that a United Airlines decision to pull out of Auckland would jeopardise the $520 million alliance.

United, the world's second largest airline, filed for bankruptcy protection in the United States last month. On Friday it said it was pulling out of New Zealand, and its 96 employees there would be made redundant.

The move prompted New Zealand's opposition National Party to claim there was

"no way the Commerce Commission could now approve the deal if it were truly looking after the interests of the New Zealand traveller and Kiwi businesses". Qantas has applied to buy 22.5 per cent of Air NZ for $520 million.

Competition authorities on both sides of the Tasman have yet to decide on the proposal's future. The New Zealand Government, Air New Zealand's principal shareholder, gave its agreement in principle to the deal just before Christmas.

The acting chief executive of Qantas, Peter Gregg, said the issue went beyond competition on a single route. "United said its Auckland flights had suffered from falling passenger numbers and low fares that made its service unprofitable," he said.

"Everyone should be wary of trying to engineer an artificial competitive outcome in the face of this reality." There was nothing to stop others starting rival services on the route, he said.

Barbers Pole
14th Jan 2003, 21:23
AirNZ has announced today that it will increase it's flights AKL-LAX from 14 to 17 a week to meant demand with UAL pulling out in april.