air lingus Unaccompanied children ........

[hobie]

Did I hear correctly that Air Lingus have decided to dis-continue "unnacompanied children service" ....... apparently 150 children are carried on average every day and EI believe they are in danger and thus will no longer will be carried ??? .......

[bealine]

Possibly......I know British Airways have been looking at reviewing our policies and making a separate charge for the service. Up to now, the service has incurred enormous costs which the airline has subsidised from profits made elsewhere in the business. Now, because Easyjet and Ryanair are forcing us to compete, we can no longer afford the luxury of "free" services.

The UNMINS we carry are safe as far as their time with BA is concerned, but we do question some of the motives behind sending teenage girls from former Eastern Bloc countries into Japan or Thailand! It is quite clear that a "white slave" trade exists.

Similarly, when we had the old Islamabad service, it was very apparent that many of the young girls (10 or 12 years old) did not want to go to Pakistan to be forced into an arranged marriage.

One thing is becoming clear, the "Skyflyers" product will be tightened up over the coming months.

[Dakota Queen]

Yes thats right - from Feb 1st no more under 12 unaccompanied minors. Its due to increased delays, security and overcrowding in airports. There are resulting safety issues for the kids and I imagine the airline's insurance.......

It'll be missed, Aer Lingus were always fantastic in their treatment of kids trabvelling alone.

[Departures Beckham]

I imagine the sum charged by a handling agent to airlines for an UNMIN to be escorted must be quite high, any guesses at how much it is?

[Bubbette]

I think it's so risky to send young kids unaccompanied--there are a lot of wackos out there.

[MarkD]

sign of the times, I expect EI's legal insurers took one look at the compo culture rampant in Ireland, plus the media-fuelled frenzy with regard to children's activities with their parents more than six inches from their side and WW took fright.

As RTE News pointed out last night, EI used to use its UM policy in their ads [the ones with the insufferably cheesy music, yeah :D ]

Does beg the question though - is sending an under 12 year old off solo on a trip of such length a good idea? Not to mention that no other mode of transport I know of provides such a service. [open to correction!]

[Flame]

Hey C'mon guys;

Willie has decided that he has cut staff back so much that he cannot afford to have a ground staff member babysitting kids. Staff at Dublin have been cut back so much, that it is not uncommon for incoming aircraft to have to wait till someone arrives from looking after another flight to "drive" the airbridge for the incoming flight

As far as I am concerned its purely a money saving issue and if I was management at EI, I would think it a good idea to stop it, but as a outside observer.....whats the difference now, between EI and FR. It used to be service...not any more:confused:

[bealine]

Departure Beckham - The handling agents at LGW used to charge (5 years ago) airlines £50 per child + VAT at LGW for a direct escort service - aircraft to arrivals or check-in to aircraft. A scale of charges for "waiting time", escorted overnight hotel accommodation and escorted in-flight services were quite extortionate in the event of delays.

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that with Air Miles tickets, Daily Mail / Daily Express promotions etc, the airlines simply cannot afford to retain UNMIN services, in their present form, any longer. Indeed, it is onlyairlines that are forced to accept a legal responsibility over these children.

I've lost count of the number of times we receive "unnotified" UM's - because the parents/guardians have not paid the correct fare. Similarly, we have a member of staff tied up for four hours or more if an UM needs transferring between LGW and LHR - what other business would accept a cost of £100 or more against a half-fare ticket? Commercial Suicide!

Personally, I feel if the services are to continue, the Independent Boarding Schools and Foreign Language Schools should support these services financially - a lot of their overseas business would disappear overnight if the services stopped! Indeed, the UK Diplomatic Service, the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office should contribute too!

As far as Flame's comments are concerned, the quality of service is directly proportional to the fares being paid - you forget Aer Lingus very nearlywent bust a few months ago - they have to bounce back and cost-cutting is the only way they'll manage to survive 'cos people won't pay the proper fares!

(You can now fly London to Malaga or London to Palma cheaper than getting a train into London at certain times of year - where's the sense in that!)

[GBXRE]

I guess they were worried about seating little boys next to all those priests! ;)

[Conchi]

To carry UM is a big responsibility for the crew as well, especially those days where we operate with minimun crew. Sad, but it's getting harder and harder to look after them :( . It's a wild world, and I agree they shouldn't travel alone until they are 12. I believe it's very sad to see some airlines that get UM as small as 3 years old :mad:

[Young Paul]

I have friends who have sent their children unaccompanied. However, I have grave reservations about it, and find it hard to imagine the circumstances in which I would allow my children to travel without a competent adult - at least until they are over 12.

It's not the routine side of it that is the problem. It's the fact that if the aircraft ends up in (say) Lille rather than Paris, and the passengers continue their journey by surface, then someone will presumably have to take responsibility for the child for the rest of the way. It's all very well entrusting a child to a team in the airport or on the 'plane, but to an individual for a journey by road or rail? And the stress to the child if an emergency develops, and he or she has nobody to turn to.

There are much more controlled, child-centred environments in which children can be taught lessons about independence. This sort of travel can wait until later.

[Bob Brown]

I have sent my son (now 8) to Malaga for a holiday with my mother who lives out there for the last two summers.

The only airline from LGW that offers the UNMIN service is BA. With their fairs it is not a half price ticket! more like a full price with £5 off.

If BA drop this service it will mean that either me of the mrs have to travel with him each way or even stay there with him.

Now, we send him there for £160 ish pounds so that we don't have to take an extra two weeks leave during the year to look after him during the holidays or send him to a child minder. He also gets to see his nan (ahhh).

If we go with him, we either have to take the holidays, or pay for two extra return flights (one to take him and one to bring him back) at a cost of another £350 (or more if we are not staying the weekend).

So BA are trying to compete with Ryan Air etc. Drop the proce to £10 a sector and I will be happy for you to drop the UNMIN (or charge) service. Until then HELP ME GET A BREAK!!!!!!!!

[bealine]

Bob Brown - Don't worry. BA's Skyflyer product is not going to stop - not yet awhile anyhow!

Some things have changed already, for the better as far as most UM's and their parents are concerned:

1. One seating row is dedicated as an UNMIN row if possible on the aircraft. If it is particularly busy, we will try to "Buffer Out" the seat next to the UM.

2. The UM service is accountable throughout. Each staff member (bealine included) has to sign for receipt of his/her UNMIN charges and receive a signature upon safe handover to another staff member.

3. The YP (Young Person) category has been abandoned altogether (Parents of children over 12 years could elect to have them treated as YP's where they received assistance if the child asked for it, but if the child wanted independence, that was okay too!) A child of over 12 is now either an UNMIN, where BA accepts full responsibility, or a normal passenger - no halfway houses!

4. If the child appears fretful or unhappy at meeting the person at the receiving station, BA reserves the right not to complete the handover, but to contact the child's parents or guardian and arrange the child's safe return to the airport of origin.

Now, your payment of £160 fare is the proper amount for a child to Malaga. It is actually a half fare, but half the fullnormal fare (S or Y booking class). Unfortunately, Malaga is not served by British Airways - it is a GB Airways operated route - so BA only receives a small part of the revenue from your fare!

The GB Airways operation also means that, even if BA do tackle Ryan Air and Easyjet head to head, GB Airways probably won't - especially as their services never seem to struggle with passenger numbers! (I have to admit that, since they got their Airbuses, the GB operation has gone from strength to strength!)

You are one of a very few people who now pay the proper fare. We get so many "unnotified" UM's and the reason they are "unnotified" is that the proper fare hasn't been paid!

As a lot of these kiddies come from Boarding Schools or Foreign Language schools and are brought in by taxi, these children are presented to us as "fait accompli" - you can't humanly refuse a child his/her passage home for the holidays!

So, what is likely, but hasn't yet been confirmed, is that a totally separate "service charge" will be introduced for the "Skyflyer" service which wil not exactly cover our full costs, but will ensure that whatever fare basis has been used, a fair contribution to the extra costs involved have been made!

[t3953]

I have been informed that EI have rethought their policy on UM's following Willie being brought into the Government to explain his reasons for not carrying UM's!
Is this true? If so than we should still be seeing UM's onboard on Saturday!

[MarkD]

Willie should have given them two options:

one - indemnify EI vs all claims [see the Catholic Church + residential schools]

two - you don't try and run EI, I won't run the Govt.!