How many Mac users?

[Ascend Charlie]

Perhaps not the right forum, but I am curious whether the aviation community, helicopters in particular, use the Mac format rather than IBM / Microshaft Windows.

The Oz CASA is reluctant to produce any software or amend their web browsers for any other than Windows format, but perhaps there is a shift in the proportions of users in aviation. If I can show CASA that there is a significant proportion of Mac users in aviation, we might get treated better.

And PLEASE, this is not a request for Windows-haters and Mac-haters to vent their spleens.

[BlenderPilot]

And thru the years I have managed to convince several other pilots to make a very successful switch, they all seem happy to have switched to Mac.

[All Blacks]

I use a MAC G4 Titanium Powerbook Laptop and have found it to be the best laptop I have ever used. Being non windows based it doesnt suffer from the numerous viruses out there built around the windows operating system.

For graphics, which I do a lot of work with, you cant beat it.

AB

[ShyTorque]

I had an old grey one but since the "flasher" accusation I threw it away......:D

[Jonasraf]

I have a HP laptop, but I also have a old G3 imac. Like both, have different uses for them. But next I'll buy a MAC laptop.

[BigJim]

I use a G4 cube - great computer and friendly programs:)

[Helibloke]

I use an iBook, excellent machine wish they had more gaming software though. Overall no complaints and will buy MAC again

[407 Driver]

I have used Mac's for years and years, but sadly, I finally slipped over to the dark side due to ease of access and costs of software and hardware.
It's a shame that Apple never built the network of products and support as the PC did.
I personally think that Mac's are by far a better product.

[George Semel]

I went from an IBM/Windows PC to an iMac last september. I like it a lot. I can set it up in minutes and its easy to take on the road with me. As for programs and such, well I been able to get all the software I want to use so its not a problem. There is plenty of software for Mac's, you just can't buy it at Staples.

[All Blacks]

407 Driver

How about going back to a MAC and then installing Virtual PC. This is a great program and allows you to basically run a full PC suite on a MAC. I use it to run my subs database on the same computer as my graphics programs. Makes life much easier and being able to run MAC and PC programs on the same laptop is very cost effective.

AB

[widgeon]

Don;t then cooling fans on those macs rotated the wrong way ?.

[t'aint natural]

I use a PC for writing and an iMac for design.

[407 Driver]

All Blacks, I thought about that, but it's the cost also. My new Dell with lots of extras installed was only about $2,000 CAD last year, a similar Mac may be twice that. (granted, I may have received twice the product??)
George, you are correct, Mac software is available, but not with such off-the-shelf ease as a PC.
Widgeon, it doesn't matter which way things spin, just learn to react accordingly :D

[tinyrice]

I too went over to the dark side because of my job. I took my recent unemployment, and the lightning strike that fried my HP Laptop as a sign, and went back to my old PowerMac 7300 again. With OS9.1 its very stable, runs all the USB toys and with 256MB of RAM can run MS Office 2000 with ease. I had also heard that the latest versions of Virtual PC are pretty sweet, thus opening up the software side a goodly bit. For the CD driven, graphic heavy, maintenance or operational manuals (like Boeings) out there today, Macs are the business.

[All Blacks]

Tinyrice

I agree with them as the best for graphics. On my 750mhz G4 Powerbook I am running Quark Express, Photoshop 7 and Adobe Acrobat for all my magazine related work as well as Office 2002 with all the neat toys it has.

The on the PC side am running Tracker which is a database program for subscriptions, mailouts etc etc as well as MYOB for all my accounting needs. Not bad for one laptop.

Mind you, and this is for 407 Driver, the initial cost for the G4 Powerbook runs around $8K NZD and then I put all the software etc on. Its not cheap but I would never go back to a PC. Besides when running on the internet I can have Internet Explorer, Entourage and Netscape all doing seperate things and it handles it with ease. Not like my PC that would crash after opening the second program :rolleyes:

AB

[John Bicker]

Since 1986. Saw the light after doing spreadsheets in DOS using backslash commands. If you believe the stories Apple is the largest selling BRAND of computer. Think before you flame that statement.

Currently using a Titanium G4 500 Mhz. Bluetooth wireless to an Ericsson T39m mobile. Can go online in most places in Europe where there is GSM coverage with GPRS. Cost is based on quantity not time - speed is as much as 64 k which is faster than dialup.

Running OS 10.2.2 Jaguar. Rock solid. Even have OS X running on an old G3 266 Powerbook and it is entirely acceptable. Clock speed isn't everything. There were rumours running that OS X has been run on the Intel platform. I say don't bother let them suffer.

Ever wondered why there is no support industry for the Macintosh? Obviously doesn't need one.

CASA - there's a can of worms on it's own. Interestingly their Regulatory CD is Intel, Mac and Unix. Mind you it is an Adobe product. There are some smarter people in Seattle than others.

BTW - Unix is like living in a teepee: No windows, No Gates, Apache in house.

[headsethair]

Mac since 1990. Now using iBook & iMac running OS 9.2 - and Airport wireless connecting to my cable modem. High speed internet in the bathroom! Have to use SoftPC to run some of my aviation stuff (Garmin.......clunky company).

[Ascend Charlie]

Yes, Garmin is yet another company that ignores us. I tried to get the software for our new G196, but it is only Windows, and of course it only runs through a Com port, which doesn't exist on my iMac.

I am very pleased to see that the most prolific and respected posters on this forum are Mac people. It gives me the incentive to get onto CASA and suggest that they look at this thread and get thaeir @r$es into gear.

Thanks Rotorheads - any more out there?:D

[PPRuNe Towers]

Here on the top table at the Towers myself, Danny and Sick Squid are confirmed Mac men. Only Mik stays on the dark side but then again he thinks in unix and finds that OSX only gets in the way........

Regards
Rob

[Shawn Coyle]

Mac since 1988, have to use Wintel at work and hate it. The thing I miss most on the Windows programs is not being able to navigate without using the mouse.
Interesting to see how the responses are pretty much all in favor of Macs - is this just a rotorhead thing, or perhaps more to do with aviation in general?
I know we're different in many ways from (most) FW folks in ways of thinking, but that's another thread all on its own.

[ppheli]

From a friend who has access to stats for a well-used helicopter industry website:-

29.7% Win 2000
28.4% Win 98
14.3% Win XP
12.0% Win NT
7.9% Win ME
5.7% Win 95
1.2% Mac
0.8% other

[fen boy]

Although an avid Mac user, G4 and i-mac running 10.2.3 and using the new mac safari web browser (very fast), I can understand the reluctance of some company's to make mac friendly web sites. Our site (similar business to CASA) gets around 1% of its hits from mac users. If any mac users are having trouble with sites and you're using Explorer try upgrading to 5.2 it eliminated all of the problems viewing our site on the mac.

[Cx292]

Hi!

For all mac users (aviators mac users) there is a nice and growing up site www.iplane.org

Bye
Cx292

[peachpilot]

Yep I'm a Maccerooon ! I have a G4 Ibook - Mac's are superior. Once you've used one, you'll never go back to the pathetic XP. This mac is soooo quick, starts up in seconds and Tiger OS is a dream. All designed for busy people. One day, it'll be a Mac world !

[cl12pv2s]

Shawn,

Interesting to see how the responses are pretty much all in favor of Macs - is this just a rotorhead thing, or perhaps more to do with aviation in general?

Is it???!

What does this tell?

Maybe alongside the question of 'what do you use', should be the questions, "What is your level of computer competency", "What are your uses?". The MAC attracts users who want an 'idiot-proof', 'unbugger-upperable' computer.

There is a trade off...

Stability vs User Configureablity

MAC has one, PC the other.

However with competence, it is possible to acheive the same stability and speed as a MAC with a PC...and then you have the best of both worlds!

I am comfortable on both platforms, but much prefer the PC as I can tweak it much more redily than a MAC. Thus making my PC run how I want rather than how Microsoft / Intel want.

I also have much more access to programming tools using the PC. I have no need for graphics / video work. So for me the PC is fine.

I would however, probably reccomend a MAC to my parents...who are not so computer literate!

Yes, I was born to BBC Basic and brought up on DOS2.1!

cl12pv2s

P.S. I am not saying that MAC users are all computer-idiots...!

[Nige321]

Macs here too - Here the Macs NEVER crash...

Don't use Safari, use Firefox 1.5 - No compatibility probs...:)

Nige321

PS. The stats quoted above mean absolutely nothing as many of the hits will be from Windblows powered webcrawlers and bots etc...:yuk:

[BlenderPilot]

I have a Powerbook G4.

The difference between Mac and PC has a direct analogy to a BMW and a cheap Japanese import car of course you go out into the street an see more Japanese cars, but why would you think this happens?

Go to Amazon.com and see what the hottest selling computers have been this holiday season and you will see that the top 5 computers are Macs!

Check out this article on CNET,

Are Mac users smarter?

By Ian Fried

Those who surf the Web using a Mac tend to be better educated and make more money than their PC-using counterparts, according to a report from Nielsen/NetRatings.

The study also said Mac users tend to be more Web savvy, with more than half having been online for at least five years. And the Mac faithful are 58 percent more likely than the overall online population to build their own Web page and also slightly more likely to buy goods online, according to the report.

"With above-average household income and education levels, the Mac population presents a very attractive target for marketers, both online and offline," the research group said.

TS Kelly, director and principal analyst at NetRatings, said that his company decided to publish the study after noticing the differences between the demographics of Mac owners compared with overall PC owners. Kelly said Apple Computer is a client, but he said Apple did not commission the study nor was it made aware of the results prior to the report's publication.

Kelly said the greater affluence and education level of those who surf using a Mac is attributable in part to the company's comparatively pricier machines, as well as to their perception as a status symbol and their greater market share among those in the publishing and design industries.

"Any time you lower a price point you always see a broadening of the audience that is probable to buy it," Kelly said.

"Apple customers may be educated, but our customers are smart enough to have chosen Gateway, which offers the best value," said Brad Williams, a spokesman for the PC maker.

Apple has been aggressively targeting PC owners in its latest ad campaign.

Although Apple sales typically represent less than 5 percent of the overall U.S. personal computer market, 8.2 percent of Americans who surf the Web at home do so using a Mac, according to the study. Nearly all the rest of those who go online--89.4 percent--do so using a Windows-based PC.

Nielsen/NetRatings said that 70.2 percent of Mac users online have a college degree, compared with 54.2 percent of all Web surfers. That, combined with their longer surfing histories and their greater willingness to buy products via the Web, makes Mac consumers a prime catch for marketers, Kelly said.

"In many cases that is a market advertisers are looking at when they are promoting new products or upscale products," Kelly said.

A representative for PC maker Dell noted that it doesn't seem to be lacking for customers and that half of those customers buy their PCs over the Web--a sign that Windows users are also adept online.

The study notes that although there are clear benefits to marketing to Mac owners, it can be tough to target them specifically.

Once upon a time, marketers could target personal computer users as a whole to reach a more-educated, higher-income base, however the demographics of those with a personal computer have become more similar to the demographics of the overall population as personal computer penetration has grown. Kelly said advertisers can still reach upscale crowds in other ways, such as targeting those who have a broadband connection.

Copyright © 1995-2005 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved.

If I had to use a PC I think I would rather skip the whole computer thing!

[wesp]

I use an iBook G4. Used to use Windows as well, but since a year I don't do it anymore. The time Windows take to keep it running is just a waste. With Mac never have any problem. Virusses 'how do you mean'

Availabilty of software is just great, apart from the fact there's no flightplanning for it.

So you invest a little bit more, but have a lot more time to use it.

[peachpilot]

Internet explorer being dumped by MS for Macs....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4542750.stm

[Ascend Charlie]

Got myself an early Xmas present - a G5 iMac 20" with 1.5Gb RAM.

Goes like a rocket, runs Virtual PC as fast as a PC does, so I can easily use those Windoze-only programs.

Still got the G4 Powerbook, but the G3 iMac gets pensioned off.:(

[Flingwing207]

Wow, a thread resurrected from 2003, cool!

Lessee - in the '70's I started with an IBM PC (the original 4.77 MHZ 8086), then went to an Atari 800, then back to a PC (this time the "Turbo" 8088-2), then to an AST 286, upgraded to a 386, then an Apple Mac (the original 128K), then a Commodore Amiga with a 68030 processer (now THAT was ahead of its time), then a 486/66 PC, then a Mac SE upgraded with an '030 processer, then a Powerbook.

By 1995, I had owned five PCs, three Macs, two Amigas and an Atari (and driven a whole bunch more). The Macs were always much more cohesive with the hardware/GUI/OS meld, but still managed to crash with as much regularity as any PC, and when they did, it was next to impossible to find out why. Upgrades? Fuggeddaboutit - if you could do it, it cost an arm and a leg.

I finally got so frustrated by my wife's Powerbook that I bought her a Sony VAIO and spent the time teaching her how to figure out Windows 98. That little VAIO went all over the world without a burp.

Right now, I am using the best computer I've owned yet - an HP Pavilion ZD7000 laptop, 17", 3.2GHZ, 1GB, 7200RPM 60GB drive. I'm not sure it has ever crashed.

Macs are wonderfully designed, beautifully packaged, and a pleasure to use, but in the end you can do more with a WinTel based machine for less money. If I had mondo cash to spend staying up-to-date with Apple hardware and software, I'd splurge, but dollar-for dollar you'll do much better in the PC world.

(And anyone who claims that Virtual PC runs as fast as an actual PC is only running Notepad! :hmm: )

[KikoLobo]

I MAC USER TOO..

PowerBook G4, 17 Inch... Theres nothing else..

Never turn back to PC, and hopefully never will..

Try AeroPlanner.com

[WhirlyGirl Sarah]

Mac! Always have always will...

We use two 17" powerbooks and a G4. Also got a range of vintage macs upstairs!!

WGS

[BlenderPilot]

Flingwing207,

Seems like we lost you . . . . . .

Macs are wonderfully designed, beautifully packaged, and a pleasure to use

and that was as far as we agreed, but then you said . . .

in the end you can do more with a WinTel based machine for less money

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

But then again what do I know, when you were using Amiga and Atari computers I was still using my Fisher Price Infant entretainment center! :)

[Lunar]

Another Mac man,

ibook G4, 1 year and hate using my Windows laptop, slow and unstable, like some pilots I know...

[Stringfellow Dork]

Yep Mac user too and whilst we're on the subject - is there any logbook software that runs on a Mac?

Please?

Ta...

[maxqx]

Mac user here, desktop dual 2Ghz- 3gig ram...need more speed :D

[Simon853]

PCs all the way for me I'm afraid. 90% of my PC usage is games, or more specifically flight sims. Plus since I build my own PC kit, Macs just can't come close on price for performance. And (this may be controversial but..) I actually think Windows aint a bad OS these days. (Shame it's taken them 20 years to catch up.)

Si

[Nellis]

There is another logbook program for Mac users, try Climb which can be found at www.2ndSegment.com

[Stringfellow Dork]

Re: logbook software - :ok:

[Galapagos]

Mac all the way... Nothing beats it, except the price you would pay for a Windows based computer... :-)

I use a PowerBook G4 and love it.

Another Mac log book software is Log Ten Pro. Mostly designed for USA pilots. Works well but not customizable like I would've like it to be.


http://coradine.com/software/logtenpro.html

[rotorfan]

Started using disputers in '72 (IBM 360). In '88, got tossed from a job, started business the next day, needed invoicing ability. My wife set up an Excel spreadsheet in 30 minutes on her 1987 Mac, and I've been sold on 'em since. That MacPlus got bumped up to 4MB RAM, a 16Mhz CPU mod, and OS6.0.8. Booted up in under 10 sec., NEVER crashed. Just quit using it about a year ago.

This new Tiger OS screams, and I keep discovering new tricks that make it cool to use. Oh, yeah, I have an HP laptop w/ XP that I use for some of my work. It's really OK, the best Windoze that I've used, but I haven't found anything on XP that is easier to do than the equivalent on MacOS.

I like to USE my 'puter, not maintain it, like the PC requires me to do. (Incessant virus defs. to download.)

Simon sez:
"I actually think Windows aint a bad OS these days. (Shame it's taken them 20 years to catch up.)"

I agree, it's pretty decent, actually. But, my friend, Microsloth has NOT caught up. OSX is a much more elegant, user-friendly OS. :ok:

[Lunar]

Folks,

Just reading on Apple.com/uk that there is a recall for ibook G4 batteries and some others including some powerbooks. this effects me and thought it might be of interest to some who post here.

The good news is there is a replacement program up and running.

Have a look.

https://depot.info.apple.com/batteryexchange/index.html?lang=en

Lunar

[happyhamster]

This aviation weather widget works really well. Well worth downloading if you have tiger

http://homepage.mac.com/dreerpa/widgets/

[Ned-Air2Air]

MAC thru and thru. Got a G5 desktop for all the magazine stuff in the office as well as the latest generation 15 inch G4 Powerbook for me.

Gave my project manager a G4 Powerbook 12 inch and getting my editor and sub editor onto G4 Powerbooks as well.

Only dark side computer I have is a Toshiba laptop for handing the subscription databases, otherwise its mac all the way.

Cheers

Ned :ok: :ok:

[Cross-eyed]

Had a Big Mac attack and have never since recovered, although my latest Mac is aging fast. I am also dabbling with an XP machine until the Intel-based Macs are out this spring. Or, I may pick a good deal on the last of the PowerPC line.
It's all good!

[Pat Malone]

I'm in the publishing racket and use Macs (a) because they're better and (b) because all my clients and advertisers use Macs too – they outperform PCs in design functions.

[Droopystop]

Another Mac user here!

[wesp]

I use LogTen Pro which is really top notch. It's not just made for US pilots, you can either choose FAA or JAA format. And you can fully customize the colums. You can define your own reports and selections as well.

And I don't work for the company.

[MightyGem]

Anyone have any feedback on Mac Minis? I'm thinking of buying one.

[Djay]

Since I bought my first LC 475 back in the early 90's it's been Mac for me. Currently a PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X 10.4.3.

Cheers,
djay (a.k.a Bongo)

[MightyGem]

Anyone have any feedback on Mac Minis? I'm thinking of buying one.

I now have two Minis, one solely for music. My daughter has a MacBook, plus we have numerous iPods and an iPhone.

PS: how did this thread come back when the last post before this was 2006??? :confused:

[DryAir]

Mac user here. Currently on a MacBook and have switched the family's hardware across to Apple products. Very stable and very very user friendly. All the right programs that we need comes as packaged.

I believe even half of the Pilots in BSP are MacUsers too.:ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm .....

MacBook Pro ....... best thing since the bread slicer was invented .....

.... and as the divorce is now just a distant memory .... I can finally afford to buy the damn thing!

(I just love it easy to use stable ....no lockups or "Blue Screens of Death" its FAN BLOODY TASTIC.


:D

[jimmynutron]

Started using a Mac three years ago, never had a single problem. THE crew room is now filling up with MAC,S:D

[Shawn Coyle]

The latest version of Parallels is awesome - it's like Windows is just another Mac program - access all files anywhere on the computer from either program. Just beginning to see the possibilities.
But a Mac user since 88 and have not found anything to compare (Linux is coming close!)

[soggyboxers]

I love Macs compared with Windows. I don't have any compatibility issues because I have Office for Mac, but it's easy enough enough to use Windows programmes via Parallel. Has anybody tried using VMware Fusion? I've heard that it's the easiest way to run Windows side by side with Mac applications.

I've had a MacBook for 3 years and just about to change it for the new aluminium chassis MacBook with a bigger hard drive. I'm also planning to change my desktop at home for a Mac. Once you've tried Mac you'll never go back as we say in Nigeria (or something like that :E).

[crunchingnumbers]

I am a Mac convert for the last 2 yrs. After being in the IBM camp for many years with a strong IT background, I was convinced to give it a try. I did use parallels at first, but have since moved to VMware Fusion which is far more stable than I think Parallels could ever be (that's just my experience - haven't tried Parallels 4 yet - and won't). I use VMware fusion with Vista ultimate (for non available mac or legacy type software) side by side and enjoy the best of both worlds. I would never buy another windows box. :ok:

[Phil77]

I started out with Mac's about 12 years ago - it was (and still is) THE platform for graphic design - then 2 years later we ventured into webdesign. That's when it became difficult: websites used to look extremely different on Mac than a PC - came a long way since; still some minor differences though (fonts for example) - and with the major population still using PC on the internet it was advisable to use a PC for the webdesign :sad:.

So I couldn't stand it anymore and became a pilot! :E
...and not enough money to buy a Mac :* ...but since this June I'm back!!! :D Proud owner of a MacBook Pro and couldn't be happier! Dual processor performance and a 3 hour battery life (actively working, not just sitting there!)... not to mention the 5 sec wakeup time from standby - just close the display, go on a flight, at the destination open it up and voila!

I run VMware fusion since most of my companies software is all PC (charter software, Exchange) - wouldn't and couldn't buy it all for Mac.
VMware is fast and stable, although I found that it doesn't like if I leave a VPN connection running - has trouble reopening it on wakeup (of the computer, not the VM).
Coolest thing is that you can save multiple states of virtual machines... I keep a basic backup mashine with all my software just installed and ready to go. After a couple of month when Windows XP loaded itself up and got really really slow: just open a sparkling new and fast one!!!

Solely for the occasional gaming I have a bootcamp partition with another XP installed - I know I'm spoiled! ;)

[EN48]

Used Mac's in the early days. Went over to Windows due to software availability and hardware cost. Have had some unhappy moments with Windows in years gone by, but now run 7 PC's with Vista and have zero complaints and crashes. Vista is what Windows should have been 10 years ago! No reason to consider going back to Mac IMHO.

[BlenderPilot]

During 2008, I have gotten 4 pilots and 1 Mechanic from my hangar to switch to Mac, all bought 2.4 MacBook's, AND EVERYTIME I RUN INTO ONE OF THEM IN THE HANGAR, THEY KEEP THANKING ME AN TELLING ME HOW WONDERFUL MAC IS!!!!

These guys used Windows machines, and would only marginally use their machines, now they are using digital cameras with iPhoto, making slideshows, they sync their ipods, they download and edit video, they sync their phones with bluetooth, it's pretty amazing how as soon as they try a Mac they become addicted.

For those Windows only apps, I partitioned my drive and installed windows and the windows apps like Microsoft Flight Simulator or RealFlight G4 acually run better on the Mac than on the Windows machine.

I have used Mac's since the Classic.

[jimmynutron]

Great widget!!! thanks:ok:

[stonedigger]

phil77

Wow, this feels like looking into a mirror....
I've got the same background as you, startet on a mac IIfx in '93 as a graphic designer and have had the same issues as described by you as a web systems developer.

Finally got all fed up by it and quit - to become a helo pilot has been the best lifestyle choice ever, don't we all agree on that? :ok: I am still a mac user today - recently bought a mac pro, completely over the top since i don't do use it for design nor web anymore, but still love it.

And to all you Windose users out there - believe it or not, I've NEVER had a single virus over the past 15 years using a Mac. Not one.

That alone speaks for itself!!:D:D

digger out

[dnheli]

Mac User since the 80's. Have to be Windows conversant at work, though. Plenty of people I meet assume the two are not compatible and are surprised to find out how similar they are.

For work and online school, had to buy XP and Fusion, works just fine for work and for school, since it's all thru a browser, I used the Mac only for the last two classes, no problems at all.

iPhone also in use and everything swims happily together. So much that we do these days with computers is platform-independent, why not get the machine that is nicely designed and is much less a malware target? And can be two computers in one. Almost no reason not to go Mac these days.

[bpaggi]

Guys

do you know why the aliens lost against us in "Independence Day"?

Because they used PC's and the virus has been injected by a Mac.

[Gomer Pylot]

Talk about waking the dead!

For me, neither. I run Linux, and love it.

[Shawn Coyle]

If only the Linux version of X-plane worked really well, we'd be in heaven.

[rotorboater]

I am a recent convert to the mac, love my macbook air, starts immediately you open the lid, only crashes when running windows with parallels and incredibly light, fantastic bit of kit!:D

[Scotsheli]

MAC convert 2 years ago, but have PC's in the house too.

Lets just say the "start-up" race is no competition. MAC is ready to run in 15 seconds, PC's churning away for a few minutes before Windows settles down. Even then it spends the next five minutes loading today's batch of updates and restating...

If you want your life back - get a MAC!

[Decredenza]

My Windows XP driven motherboard melted so I watched my wife try to use her new Windows Vista - the word defenestrate comes to mind. I didn't want to deal with that level of frustration so I got an iMac with Leopard (OSX 10.5) and support - it took me a while to figure out how to resize a window so that was money well spent (only the bottom right corner is dragable).

If you are OK with giving control and double the money to Apple then it is a fantastic machine - don't worry how it does what it does because it just works.

The only glitch I had was solved by turning off and unplugging the computer - it still uses 4 watts even when turned off - go figure.



(Defenestration is the act of throwing someone or something out of a window)