View Full Version : Incident at FRA
ajamieson
5th Jan 2003, 14:16
Just dropped on the wires.
REUTERS/GENFAX-SNAP15:14GMT
FRANKFURT AIRPORT CLOSED, BUILDINGS CLEARED AS STOLEN PLANE CIRCLES CITY-OFFICIAL
Hmm.
BC-GEN15:23GMT
Frankfurt airport closed as stolen plane circles
FRANKFURT, Jan 5 (Reuters) – Frankfurt airport was closed and tall buildings were evacuated on Sunday as a stolen light plane circled the city, Germany’s financial capital, officials said.
Gunther Schepky, head of traffic at Frankfurt airport, said there were no flights into or out of the airport as of 3:52 p.m. (1452 GMT) and that it was not known when flights could be resumed.
“The aircraft is circling round the centre of the city,” Schepky said.
REUTERS
REUTERS-GENFAX=SNAP15:28GMT
ARMED MAN IN FRANKFURT PLANE WANTS CONTACT WITH CNN-GERMAN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL
222 08 intjw brl frup
URGENT
Stolen aircraft circling over German city of Frankfurt
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) – An armed man stole a small airplane from an airfiled in western Germany Friday, and police said he was threatening to crash it in the city of Frankfurt.
Several skyscrapers in the country’s financial capital were evacuated as a precaution, and streets cleared in the city. A helicopter was pursuing the aircraft and trying to force it away from the city, Frankfurt police said.
MORE 051534 jan 03GMT
Plane over Frankfurt threatens to crash into ECB
FRANKFURT, Jan 5 (Reuters) – An armed man hijacked a light plane and circled Germany’s financial capital Frankfurt on Sunday while threatening to crash into the tower of the European Central Bank, the fire brigade said.
A spokesman for air traffic control said they saw no terrorist link to the hijacking of the aircraft, while Germany’s NTV television said the man had told them he did not want to kill anybody but himself.
A spokesman for air traffic control said the armed man forced a pilot to take off from Frankfurt’s Babenhausen airfield at 2:55 p.m. (1355 GMT) and had taken up contact with the Frankfurt airport tower, demanding to speak to CNN television.
CNN said it was a single-engine Cessna plane.
Memetic
5th Jan 2003, 14:37
From BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2629523.stm)
Stolen plane sows panic in Frankfurt
A stolen plane is circling central Frankfurt, sowing panic in the west German city.
The light aircraft was stolen at gunpoint by an unknown person, the DPA news agency reported.
The police has evacuated high buildings, as terrorism has not been ruled out as a possible motive for the incident.
The airport has also been closed.
It is not known when flights will be resumed.
(Edited to add full url.)
Rollingthunder
5th Jan 2003, 15:08
Well it's not a Cessna 172 or a Cessna of any sort as is being reported. Low wing (long wings) with winglets. single engined, T - tail, 3 gears down.
ajamieson
5th Jan 2003, 15:11
Can anyone read the registration from the Sky News footage?
Airking
5th Jan 2003, 15:15
Its a powered glider....
He is, according to german radio news, alone in the plane...
His intention is to remind all of us of the victims of the shuttle Challenger crash, espiacially of the first jewish astronaut killed in that explosion
Remaining fuel should be used up at about 1630 utc
1618 utc . plane just landed safely at FRA airport....
Fly Stimulator
5th Jan 2003, 15:18
According to CNN it's a Diamond Eclipse. And it has now landed.
Would have been tricky to intercept in the air with anything faster than a helicopter.
ajamieson
5th Jan 2003, 15:20
GEN-FAX16:17GMT
Hijacked plane lands at Frankfurt airport-police
FRANKFURT, Jan 5 (Reuters) – An armed man who hijacked a light plane and circled the skyscrapers of Germany’s financial capital Frankfurt has landed at the city’s airport, police said on Sunday.
The man had threatened to crash the plane into the tower of the European Central Bank, officials said. Police said they had detained the man after the plane landed.
A spokesman for air traffic control said the armed man forced a pilot to take off from Frankfurt’s Babenhausen airfield at 2:55 p.m. (1355 GMT).
The sight of an unauthorised plane flying among Frankfurt’s skyscrapers conjured up frightening images that recalled the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States involving hijacked planes.
REUTERS
Mick Stability
5th Jan 2003, 15:23
Quick flyby by a Heavy -400 in the landing configuration would've done the trick.:D
A motorglider? The man has no class....
2WingsOnMyWagon
5th Jan 2003, 16:27
D-KAZE how ironic!:D
Glad it ended without injury.:)
Honestly - a nice clear day for a change and EVERYONE wants to go flying!!
The things that people do to get FRA in their logbook!!!
BBC News 24 Report has a German Correspondent saying that
"...he is flying good curves and has the strobes on..." Mitigating circumstances perhaps!?!?!?
And then the interviewer said how amazed she was that in the current security climate an aircraft could be hijacked....even from a small airport! BBC as ignorant as ever.
Let's hope then that this isn't used as an excuse to put any unnecessary controls on GA airfields, or any witchhunt against those with a PPL.
Yes AlanM, it was a nice day up there for a change today, wasn't it.
STANDTO
5th Jan 2003, 18:16
looks like things continue to get worse in the world of aviation security.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030105/ap_on_re_eu/germany_stolen_plane_15
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 18:37
The guy seems like a complete pillock. Fancy trying to commit suicide, saying he did not intend to harm anyone.....but say he wants to aim for the European Central Bank in the downtown cityscape.
It makes me wonder if even security at smaller airports, such as Babenhausen, should be increased. Unfortunately I think it appears everywhere that an aeroplane sits, security must be at a max. :rolleyes: :confused: :(
Dan.
STANDTO
5th Jan 2003, 18:49
Have a look at this
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030105/ap_on_re_eu/germany_stolen_plane_15
Interesting stuff!
Tonic.....
How on earth are you EVER going to stop this TYPE of event.
You can take security to the n'th degree and if someone wants to court the media and even kill themself there are a million ways to do so.
Have you ever been to Babenhausen? How should security be increased there or any other small GA airfield?
RiverCity
5th Jan 2003, 18:59
CNN has a somewhat more detailed report:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/05/germany.plane.ecb/index.html
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 18:59
NO I have not been there, and I do not nkow how to precent it. I do know I was passing comment.
Any ideas yourself sir?
:)
I have nothing against people passing comment - but I simply asked if you had been there and how security could/should be improved at this and other GA airfields
Any thoughts..?
Yes, security is everyones business......... but there is only SO much anyone can do.
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 19:42
Intonation is the internets biggest problem!
Security will be solved when they get people 'doing' the job properly, and being 'told' to do the correct things.
I think it is that simple. Agree?
Dan :D
I hear what you are saying......
.....but the security concerns for a commercial airfield is, and has to be, different to that of a GA airfield.
I guess it's all about risk assesment!:p
t'aint natural
5th Jan 2003, 20:02
Will someone please point out to the media that if this chap had carried out his threat, his aircraft would pretty much have bounced off the building?
I've heard over-emotional claptrap on radio about fears of a new 9/11. The more apposite comparison would be the Tampa incident.
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 20:08
But, the building was made of glass so it would not have bounced off.
Alan, risk assesment concludes an assesment of the area, location and usage, and I dont think the people at that GA airfield in Germany were expecting to be an international news report coz some freak of nature guy stole one of their aircraft! It can happen anywhere, so I feel all places should be on their guard to an extent to which is neccersary for that area...as you say....'risk assesment'.
The nonsense I have read (as subject matter, not posters, please not) over airport security makes me sick. Reading about crews who have had to take skirts off, and the entire of the pax walking through when the pilots have an axe quite happily located at the front of the aircraft!! Madness...I think, along with the rest of the SANE world, that it should be the other way round, but crews still get a check, as they can be immitated...fair enough.
Priorities and sensibility are the key to good security and that is what is lacking.
Dan :)
dmdrewitt
5th Jan 2003, 20:43
Why is STANTO posting the same link twice within 40 mins???
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 20:48
Maybe trying to get his posts rating up :D
Airking
5th Jan 2003, 22:47
okay tonic;
let´s have fences around the small airfields as well, guards, checks, etc.etc...
Do you really think it would help much ?
If you´re mad enough, you can do nearly anything !
Me thinks as for terrorism, we´ll have to fight the illness, not hte symptom.
Tonic Please
5th Jan 2003, 22:58
Yes, one could still....But at least try to make an effort in reducing such things?
It is a difficult topic, and a sensitive issue. I feel I am too "amateur" to discuss the topic of airport security with people in the know and with experience. Therefoer, I shall direct comments to other such things :D
Not in dis-respect to anyone...just a mature decision for the smoother running of the disussion :)
However, as I have said...if the managers of security dealt with the issues and gave SANE instructions and create SENSIBLE procedures, then I am sure, as many of the airline pilots have said, it will make things so much eaiser and more efficient, and point at the problems more directly...
Smooth skies
Dan :cool:
OK
We put 100ft high fences around small airfields.
We put xray machines at every small airfield.
What's to stop the next Joe Bloggs (or Herman the German!) learning to fly and then, without any tweasers/nail files/gun fly his fully fuelled PA28 into a building?
How are you gonna stop that? Answers on a postcard please...
Anyone remember the guy many years ago who learnt to fly at Bournemouth, and on his 1st solo took it to the coast and dive bombed the pier just missing it? A suicide note was found in his navbag back at the flying school.
My point here is that you can NEVER legislate for every circumstance. The guy here probably had flying experience as he flew a nice smooth approach at FRA I have just seen!
We must al be vigilant and accept extra security, but there comes a time when you musn't give in to the terrorists, by letting them impact on our lives too much - or they will have achieved their goal.
sevenforeseven
6th Jan 2003, 01:20
I say they should of shot the b#s$^&d down,this would hopefully have people thinking twice about a repeat attempt.
Guiding him to FRA was a bad idea finish the job off there and then would have been more suitable.
WestWind1950
6th Jan 2003, 13:00
very poor statement sevenfourseven....
the 31 yr. old guy appeared at the GA field for a simple sightseeing flight... with his mother in tow! He gets into a powered glider, the pilot starts the motor, the guy pulls out a gun and tells the pilot to get out! The guy then recloses the hood and takes off, aiming directly for Frankfurt....
Do you seriously expect any GA pilot to start having to check every sight seeing guest for weapons?? And, how should he react if he finds one?? arrest him? Or do you expect every field to have security personel... and who will pay for it? This incident is going to add another stone to GA's grave.... the politians in Germany are already discussing great plans, making private flying even more difficult and restricted then it already is..... :mad: :(
Fly Stimulator
6th Jan 2003, 13:22
This incident is going to add another stone to GA's grave....
If only it were but a single stone! There actually seems to be a growing avalanche, what with this sort of excuse for politicians to further restrict GA in order to be seen to be doing something, compulsory Mode S transponders, the proposed compulsory £68 million third-party insurance requirement etc., etc.
I hope that GA flying is still possible in 10 or 20 years time in Europe, but the signs aren't altogether good at the moment.
steamchicken
6th Jan 2003, 13:52
Agreed, certainly a lot of hysteria attached to this incident. But it can hardly have been funny at the time! Reporting has been especially bad on this, I notice that the BBC seems to think those fighters are Tornados (!). Some German boards are already going ape about this "showing that they have no need for an air force" - it's apparently useless - and that the whole thing is a publicity stunt for the government. Bloody silly.
RatherBeFlying
6th Jan 2003, 14:03
Somehow Homeland Defense has still managed to turn a blind eye to closing off the means of the first WTC bombing and McVeigh's outrage in Oklahoma.
You can still rent a truck or van, load it up with a bomb and detonate at the location of your choice.
Just show a drivers license and credit card -- no passport or background check or special visa required.
Interesting that the authorities can impose all sorts of hoops and security checks on aviation while drivers get a free pass.
A GA a/c flown into the side of a building can't do much more than rearrange some furniture, as we saw in Tampa.
Many years back an MU-2 trying to land at Edmonton Municipal flew into the side of the local hospital. Amazingly the crew survived and were treated on site.
brabazon
6th Jan 2003, 15:33
Has anyone got the definitive answer on the aircraft type involved? It looks like a Diamon Xtreme:
http://www.diamondair.com/contentc/xtmain.htm
Why did the media, including BBC news, call it a Cessna? Just because it was a light aircraft. On 911 initially they said it was a small aircraft when the pictures clearly showed a larger aircraft. Perhaps there needs to be one TAP (Total Aviation Person) in each of these news organisations.
The Express newspaper not only called the light aircraft a Cessna, but a Luftwaffe Phantom was called a Tornado.
Bet they'd get p***ed off if I called their Jaguar car a Rover, sorry I thought all cars were the same!
WestWind1950
6th Jan 2003, 15:59
it was a Dimona HK 36 TC powered glider... D-KAZE
http://www.n-tv.de/3091509.html
and what do those press folk know anyway..... :cool:
RadarContact
6th Jan 2003, 16:03
My deepest admiration and respect to the person in charge of 119.9 at the time...
jettison valve
6th Jan 2003, 20:49
RadarContact, can I have some of your pity...!?
It started out as a beautiful daytrip to Paris yesterday. Coming back to the airport in the afternoon, I realized that there were many flights delayed, some cancelled. The baggage staff on strike - well, can`t be that bad, you will get home on your ID ticket. That`s what I thought then.
After a while: WHAT??? An accident at FRA...? Airport closed...? Sh...!
Roughly five hours later I sat in a F.50 to Stuttgart. Spending the night with some friends there, my "daytrip" took about 29 hours, having finally arrived in FRA today noon... ;-)
Cheers,
J.V.
ATC Watcher
6th Jan 2003, 21:01
was in the air as well when this thing happenned. the only nice CAVOK day in the area since 3 weeks.
What happenned in FRA is only going to give more arguments to those who wants to get rid of GA.
Tonight in German TV ZDF the German Minister of Internal affairs said , in response to the 1000 $ question of the journo : " what is the governement going to do to prevent this from happening again ? anwered : " there is no 100% security but we are going to look into the possibility to prevent people carrying guns into small planes, by for instance asking all the small airfields to equip with metal detector doors ! Another well informed minister !
God save us from politicians making fools of themselves on TV.
Yes, if you have a gun, it is easy to steal a GA aircrfat. So it is to steal a fully gazoline ladden truck ( for instance from a motorway rest area )
Gess what kind of dammage that can do ! If that happens will the same Minister ask on TV that all motorway rest areas be equipped with metal detector gates ?
Incidentally I wonder how long the owner of the Dimona will wait now to get his aircraft back.
inbalance
6th Jan 2003, 23:10
They got their Aircraft back today. Just saw it on TV how someone flew it back home.
finfly1
7th Jan 2003, 04:06
What has happened to the individual now? Is he in custody or a hospital?
railwaysengineer
7th Jan 2003, 07:04
Court has sent him into intensive psychiatric care instead of jail, we are reading today in the press.
Mostly interesting, and reminding me to that young man (name: Rust) who managed to fly to Moscow, landing there in the center on the Red Place: also this man (like Rust !!) of the recent incident in FRA was known as an extreme mummy´s boy. Thank heavens, he obviously woke up, with the help of the controller at FRA tower (german media are distributing the whole transcript of the radio conversation). This tower controller earns our full respect !!!
ATC Watcher
7th Jan 2003, 17:46
Indeed ! I read the transcript this morning, full respect for the controller.
he even helped theguy landing the machine advising him on speed and nose attitude, etc.. knowing that the guy previous experience was on C172 only 16 years earlier, and that the Dimona is not exactly the same sort of bird ( e.g. no flaps but airbrakes ) with a totally different behavior on APP, he did a good job, OK the runway was quite long I agree....
WestWind1950
11th Jan 2003, 06:45
The incident in Frankfurt has caused the politicians and press to go wild against the GA. They are planning the craziest restrictions to inforce on all GA airfields. My question:
How have the authorities in your country been reacting? Whether you're from the US, Australia, Canada, or any country in Europe... are you also feeling pressure for tighter security on your airfields? And I mean all airfields, including glider and ultralight fields... :mad:
Thanks for your replies.... und
keep flying! (hopefully)
WestWind
WestWind1950
19th Jan 2003, 19:18
unfortunately I haven't received any replies to my question :( but I am still interested in any info anyone can give. How are your countries dealing with these new European Regulations? How is security on small airfields being revised? Or our these regs being ignored?
Squawk7777
19th Jan 2003, 20:33
The biggest difference I noticed between the FRA incident and 9/11 plus the suizide 172 crash into BoA in FL was the strength of GA associations in the US.
I was waiting in the beautiful GA Port Authority "Lounge" at JFK when I saw an interview with the "famous/notorious" (your pick!) John King of King Schools. I was impressed how he and everyone from GA teamed up against the common perception of GA being the clear and present danger. I haven't seen this in Europe, but unsurprisingly the number of GA members is 10 times smaller
btw ATC Watcher: Mr. Otto Sch**y could not have been a worse pick. Wasn't he the one who in court defended members of the "Rote Armee Fraktion" (Red Army Fraction) the terrorist group active in Germany mainly in the 70s and 80s? Now he's the Minister of the Interior and comes up with ideas straight out of Orwell's 1984.
I'd better stop - I am getting angry. Bl00dy politicians :mad:
no signature today...
Edited:
WestWind1950
AOPA with the FAA and others have developed a free phone number where you can report suspicious activities at GA airports
1-866-GA-SECURE
Events certainly change perspectives.
Prior to 11Sept01, the folks at the airport where I keep my private aeroplane were dead set against ANY type of security. About six months ago the airport administration sent a circular around to all tenents asking if enhanced security was desired...87% said YES.
The (higher) perimeter fencing with razor wire starts going up tomorrow. The police have regular patrols, day and night as there is a sub-station right next to the field. In addition, the city is thinking of hiring a nighttime security guard.
About three years ago found someone trying to jimmy the lock on my hangar...had him arrested on the spot. He spent six months in the county jail courtesy of the meanest sheriff in Arizona.
Squawk7777
20th Jan 2003, 00:31
411A - I saw a documentary about this sheriff on the Discovery channel! What was his name again?
7 7 7 7
Sq7777,
His name is Joe Arpio, a former DEA agent for thirty years.
One of his ads on the TV shows him standing right next to a blue neon "vacancy" sign with seven foot letters by the "tent city" county jail.
His message in the ad...do the crime, do the time.
Pegasus77
20th Jan 2003, 22:47
Feeling sorry for 119.9? How about 120.8, 124.2 etc. and the diverse holding freqs? Personally I feel sorry for all colleagues and their pax in the GED, PSA, ETARU etc holdings, who were waiting and diverting due to this idiot in his motorglider.
Somehow I think the closure for over 2 hours of the airfield in FRA was a bit over the top. There is a sublime radar coverage in the area; I don't see the danger of aircraft landing at the airport when such an idiot is circling over the city. You might just as well evacuate every building in the city, as well as all the motorways, trains etc.
P77
Squawk7777
20th Jan 2003, 23:21
P44
...and what about the Phantoms? Pure idiocy and sensationalism!
7 7 7 7
WestWind1950
21st Jan 2003, 04:19
@Pegasus77; Squawk777
The airspace was closed not just for fear of the motorglider hitting an airliner, but primarily to keep the airspace free for the phantoms and helicopters to maneuver. Sure, the phantoms were unnecessary, but at the time of the alarm that wasn't sure and by the time they got there (much too late if the situation had really needed them), there was no turning back. Mark it off as a test of the Alarmplan.
The whole city was evacuated... the skyscrapers, city streets, train station, opera house, etc. Evacuation of the subways was unnecessary, but everything else could be argued. Imagine if he crashed into the roof of the train station or on the Zeil and there had been NO evacuation? Then there would have been a out-cry the other way....
Now the EU wants all small fields fenced in, planes locked in the hangars only, sightseeing passengers body-checked, and more. My question: how are other countries handling these new regulations?
thanks!
WestWind1950
Squawk7777
21st Jan 2003, 04:56
WW1950!
Simple! They'll compete with each other. More tax money is going to be wasted on airport fencing and other useless crap. As one (or more) ppruner has mentioned before, all the hysteria outcry goes out to aviation and GA, but you could still turn a rental van into a WMD. That's what I call blowing smoke!
But I think that this incident might put an end to GA in Europe. GA will simply become unafforable.
RIP GA in Europe? I hope not ... :(
edited:
one more thing. How do/did countries handle GA airport security in which terrorism was or is a clear and present danger? (NI, Israel)