Oz or South Africa

[ExPatAlabama]

Where to go, my wife and I are trying to pick between Oz or South Africa.
Flying time is no problem for me, but Mrs is not to happy with the flight time to Oz.
We will be flying 1st Class, so I need to know which airlines have the BA style beds in 1st. I understand that some airlines are offering these beds in Business?

So the questions are:

Oz or South Africa.

Which airline to use.

[redsnail]

What is the trip for? Holiday or business? What do you want to do on your holiday? I haven't been to South Africa but I am from Oz. I now live in the UK and so I am rather used to the long trip, although I travel in cattle class.
There are a few things you can do to make the journey a little less painful however, first class is certainly one way to make it less painful.

[Globaliser]

Also, what time of the year are you going to go? And how long are you planning to stay?

There aren't yet many airlines with flat beds in business class. BA is one of them. But even there, the business class bed/seat is very different from the first class private cabin. If you can do it in first class - go for it.

[SLF]

From Alabama I'd guess there wouldn't be that much difference in flying time. Why not do both with a rtw ticket?

If an airline has flat beds, this is usually on a route by route basis, and you still are not guaranteed that the aircraft in service on that day will have them (so I believe anyway).

Your $ will go at least twice as far in SA, but this doesn't sound like it would be a problem for you.

Whichever you choose, I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy it! :cool:

[ExPatAlabama]

Thank you for the replies.

We are thinking about being upside down for the beginning of their summer and plan to be away for 2 months now that the idea of doing both in one trip.

I assume that we could fly SA to and from Oz? Or there again we could get one of those round the world tickets (1st Class) and name the places we want to stop off at. Anyone have any idea where we may look for this type of ticket.

Anyone who can give us some places to visit in both countires and hotels/resorts and car rental companies or are the Major companies the only way to go?

[bealine]

If you're travelling in the South African summer (round about now, really, until mid-March) Cape Town is my personal favourite. If it's our summer, (June-August), Cape Town will be enjoying winter - still a lovely city but you won't get much of a tan!
Durban has a tropical climate, but is not as lovely a place as Cape Town (It's got to be one of the airlines' best kept secrets - loads of Pilots and Cabin Crew keep second homes there!!!)

As a tourist, Cape Town (because of its' Global shipping port status), has always been a cosmopolitan society and is reasonably safe (obviously, you take the same precautions as you do anywhere else in the world). On the other hand, you should avoid Johannesburg except as an aircraft interchange point!

Your $ or £ go a long way in South Africa too

However, Australia has its' own magic and touristic appeal too - especially the tropical coastline of the Great Barrier Reef. You also get the chance of stopovers if you have RTW tickets (choose Singapore, Tokyo or Bangkok on the Western side) and Fiji or Easter Island on the Eastern side. I don't know how it feels for US citizens, but if you're British then the jet lag experience is far and away worse if you go or return in the Eastern direction!

If you have small children. avoid a Bangkok stopover unless you want their course in sex education completed in a terrific hurry! It's very hard to avoid the blatant displays and approaches of the ladies and young children who perpetuate this vile trade!

If you travel First Class (F) the effects of long-distance travel are minimised. If you travel Business Class (J) then BA is the only carrier with flat beds (and the design carries a patent) although it has to be said that not everyone likes them! If you have the window seat and you need to pay a visit to the heads, you end up having to climb over your aisle seat neighbour. (This is almost impossible to achieve without waking your fellow traveller!) Be careful when you book......many US carriers use the term First Class for their Business Class (J) service. To my knowledge, no US carrier has a "proper" First Class on international routes. How long BA runs with it remains to be seen because on many occasions now, our aircraft fly with the First Class section empty.

You should really use the major Car Hire companies if you're a foreigner - the reason being (a) You end up with a roadworthy car! and (b) You are properly insured (eg Us Brits coming to the USA don't get insurance cover for lawsuit damages unless we ask for it unless it's with the major players) For my money, I've always found Alamo to give me the keenest rates and the best service - mind you, I have had to haggle once or twice with their franchisees, but that's another story!


Whatever you choose, here's hoping you have a lovely time! - I'm 100% positive you will!

[christep]

Bealine,

I'm sorry to correct you, but at least AA and United have full first class on many of their international routes, including fully flat seats/beds. As too do Qantas and Cathay amongst many others that ExPatAlabama might use to reach these points.

And you've obviously been to a different Bangkok than the one I know - yes there are certain sleazy areas (as does every major city), but they are reasonably well defined I have never (in many visits) seen the sort of thing you describe in 90% of the city.

I would also add Hong Kong as an excellent place to stop off on a RTW, with the advantage that it would putmuch of the flying on Cathay, which is the best carrier around for First Class in my opinion.

[PAXboy]

As a Brit but lived in South Africa ...

As one who has travelled at the front of the bus ...

As I am currently in Cape Town ...

I may be able to help you with your enquiries!!

Firstly, May I suggest that, if you are going to try and do SA and OZ on the one trip, the set up a RTW with One World? This is BA, AA and Qantas. This will see you to all of these places. Qantas will see you across from Sydney or Perth to Johannesburg and then BA can take you down to CPT.

All that Bealine has said is true!!

CPT is a great place and many, many things to see. You can also go up 'The Garden Route' of the Indian Ocean coastline fo rmany pleasant places. Too many to detail.

One World will also fix you up with car hire details. This will allow you to score a large amount of FFMs all the way around, to count for further trips or upgrades.

I have not travelled BA 1st but have heard nothing but good about it. I normally travel Virgin Atlantic but BA/AA/Qantas sound ideal for your needs.

From the west coast of the States, Sydney is a 14 hour stretch and you cross the date line, so being horizontal is certainly the best!!

Sydney to South Africa is another 13 or 14 hour stretch with about 7 hour time change (off the top of my head)

JNB to CPT is just under two hours and easy.

CPT to London is 12 hours overnight with a two hour time change.

Investigate AA for your return home, or possibly more direct routings.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Unless they pay IS managers a great deal more in Alabama than in the UK (or someone else is paying ;) ) I'd give some serious thought to an economy ticket. I would guess the saving against 1st class on a round the world ticket is around $20,000 each - you can have a lot of fun with that (and there's only so much caviar and Krug that any of us can consume).

If you fly to Jo'burg from Perth that's 'only' 11 hours and there are Qantas and SAA flights (almost) daily. There's not a lot to see en route, apart from the Southern Ocean!

Try to get on the Blue Train (book early to avoid disappointment) from Cape Town to Pretoria. Apart from that I'd agree with the advice so far. Cape Town and Sydney are at no 1 and 2 in my personal list of the world's most beautiful city locations (but I've not been to Rio - yet ...).

Fiji is a great place to break the pacific crossing, but it's still over 10 hours back to LA.

Have fun

[malanda]

See your travel agent for a RTW ticket. I understand that Star Alliance RTW tickets are very cheap in South Africa - it may be worth getting a one-way ticket to get you there then buying your RTW from there.

Do some digging on the Star and oneworld forums on www.flyertalk.com - you will find a lot of useful stuff on RTWs.

[bealine]

quote: Try to get on the Blue Train (book early to avoid disappointment) from Cape Town to Pretoria. Apart from that I'd agree with the advice so far. Cape Town and Sydney are at no 1 and 2 in my personal list of the world's most beautiful city locations (but I've not been to Rio - yet ...).

Excellent Idea - If you do find the Blue Train fully booked already (it is always very popular), there is a trip you can do in the opposite direction - not very far, I grant you, but enough to sample the splendour of this piece of elegant luxury!

The South African economy also needs the revenue from tourism so you'll find the people in the Cape Town area friendly.

[Globaliser]

Top recommendations for things to do in South Africa:-

Cape Town, as already mentioned, would be the best place to centre on. Not only is the city beautiful, but you are also within easy reach of the wine growing areas which offer beauty as well as imbibing opportunities. To do it justice, allow a week for the city and surrounding areas.

The Garden Route has to be done by car. It's a mixture of beautiful coastal scenery/natural attractions and holiday towns - although these are relatively small and not too tacky. Again, this should be given a week to do it justice. To give an idea of scale, the drive from Cape Town to the far end of the Garden Route (Port Elizabeth) would take one very full day's driving split between two people (probably between 10 and 14 hours of driving, before breaks, depending on how fast a driver you like to be and how much traffic there is).

Roughly between Cape Town and the Garden Route, there are the wine town of Robertson (inland), and Cape Agulhas (the southernmost tip of Africa) and Hermanus (the land-based whale watching capital of the world - although the season for that is the middle of the southern winter).

I also agree that Jo'burg should be avoided unless you have any particularly good reasons to go there. But the safari lands of the Kruger National Park area are easily reachable from Jo'burg. If you do that, you should give that somewhere between 5 days and a week - the animals are not always cooperative and the more time you spend there the more you are likely to see.

Your best bet may be to stay on one of the private game reserves bordering Kruger, which can be rather more luxurious. The one I stayed in at the end of 2001 had a game drive at dawn and another at dusk, with driver and guide so you didn't need to do anything yourself. There was a coffee and buns break on the first, and a break for sundowners on the second. In between, lots of time to relax, enjoy the pool and the food. The animals tend to sleep during the day, so there's no point going out then.

Virtually all of the fences between those private reserves, the Kruger itself and the corresponding parks on the Mozambique side have been taken down, so the animals are free to roam over a wide swathe of both countries. Humans, of course, must still stick to the boundaries!

[PAXboy]

On the air fare - it is true that you can save a bundle of cash but I would suggest simply step down to Club, on an 11 hour sector, especially if it is overnight, or you are losing hours, it makes a big differance.

Star Alliance (http://www.star-alliance.com) will certainly do the trick. You can key in cities right on the front page for timetable, or download. SAA have a deal with Star Alliance too, although not an official member of it. I score LH Miles when I travel on SAA.

If the Blue Train is full, the other is Rovos Rail, family who have been on it say it's better than Blue. Fewer pax.

THe Garden Route: I would allow anything up to a week - depending on your interests and needs. Other comments valid, also, Knysna [Nye-s-na] is very lovely, a tidal lagoon that is very popular for water skiing, as it is very calm. many good hotels and a fine place to relax. I cannot reccomend any hotels, however, as I always stay with my brother who lives there. ;)

If you finish up at Port Elizabeth, you can then fly up to Kruger Park. Not sure if there are directs, probably change at JNB. If flyinbg to Kruger, there is a new large airport at the southern end called Kruger Gateway but I like the small one at Phalaborwa [Pal-a-bore-ah] served by SA Airlink. It is small and you get highly personal service as the flights only have 20 pax on them. One of the main gates into the Kruger - and the private parks - is there and you avoid the crowds.

I am biased, as my nephew is a Captain for SA Airlink.

Finally, if you like history - and can spare an afternoon in the captial, Pretoria (36 miles form JNB) I'll give you the information to look around a museum of a house from the late 1800's and early 1900s, that was owned by an important family in the city and where the peace treaty that ended the Boer Wars, was signed.

I am biased, as it was my family and I live din the house (briefly) when I was a child!

Cheers.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Speaking of elegant luxury, the place to stay in Cape Town is the Mount Nelson Hotel (http://www.mountnelson.co.za/) - full of olde worlde charme!

[redsnail]

I haven’t been to South Africa so I can’t comment on that location. I am very familiar with Australia so I’ll offer some ideas and advice.
Australia has something for every one depending on when you visit. You can ski, surf, hill walk, drive, fly, mountain climb, fish and hunt or simply enjoy the fine restaurants.
I would fly into Sydney. There are many flights in there so you’ll get a good choice of options. Sydney is where colonization of Australia took place so it has a lot of history. Best thing is there are some superb bars and restaurants so you don’t have to suffer much. :D If you are feeling energetic you can climb the Coathanger (aka Sydney Harbour Bridge). The view is spectacular. The harbour is one of the world’s most beautiful harbours. Sydneysiders are friendly enough but life is reasonably paced (for Australia). The Blue Mountains are worth a look too.
Hop on a jet and visit Cairns. This is the gateway to the Great Barrier Reef. You can dive here or just snorkel if you like. Again the restaurants are top class but it’s a very casual city. The rainforests are worth a look too. Daintree is “just up the road”. It’s a world heritage site. A nice drive on the Cook highway to Pt Douglas is breathtaking. (only 45 min from Cairns)
Then grab another jet and go to central Australia to Alice Springs. This is the “Outback”. It’s only a small hop to see Uluru aka Ayres Rock. The Northern Territory is chock full of spectacular National Parks. Litchfield and Kakadu are closer to Darwin but there’s the Olgas and the Macdonald ranges. The Kings Canyon was made famous in the movie Priscilla Queen of the Desert.
Now fly down to Perth, the most isolated capital city in the world. Fantastic restaurants and really nice beaches. Margaret river is worth a look if you like wineries, surf and natural foods. Up the road a bit are a few more National parks and you can swim with the dolphins at Monkey Mia. The Kimberley region (top of Western Australia) is probably a tad too far but if you could stretch it, it is well worth it. One of the world’s best kept secrets in terms of unspoilt beauty.
Now you can scoot off to South Africa.

Jetlag isn’t too bad if you take some simple measures. Drink as much water as you can and try to sleep. Take ear plugs because often they aren’t supplied. Keep the alcohol content to a minimum inflight. Wear comfy clothes. Moisturise your skin as this helps you feel comfortable.
I have flown a few times between London and Sydney so I am familiar with long haul travel. (economy class)
Hope this helps.

[PAXboy]

I see again the reccomendation to keep alcohol intake low.

As I have a very low tolerance of alcohol (I get drunk on very little) I used to be very careful as it is said to be almost double in effect.

The funny thing is that I discovered that alcohol consumed on board affects me at about HALF the rate it does on the ground. I drink a lot in the air and do not get drunk. :)