Hours to solo. Is there an age trend? [Archive]

DoWeHaveLiftOff?

18th Aug 2001, 15:28

Thanks guys/gals,

I suppose with me we covered everything from stalling to low speed, etc. What we covered after the solo were navigation, low level flying and other bits'n'bobs. I suppose people with an early solo did not cover these apects of flight or did they? I am looking to complete my PPL around the 80 hours mark? (I know this is unusual).

Please comment further...

Speedbird1

18th Aug 2001, 16:12

hey guys and gals.

14 hours, yesturday at the tender age of 18

KeithAlexander

18th Aug 2001, 16:13

Did my first solo last year at the tender age of 17years and 2 months, under the RAF Flying Scholarship scheme. it took me 10hrs 45 mins to get there.

i then completed my PPL 30 days ago at a total of 52 hours 10 mins, it took me just over a year but that included having to stop for a while to do my a-levels.

Fergal

18th Aug 2001, 17:19

I am 19 years old and have 18 hours done and i'm waiting for my spl to arrive so that i can go solo. I think the amount of hours a student goes solo on depends on the flying school and instructor. I have every lesson completed from 1 to 13 including 17 and my next lesson is navigation. :D

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Fergal ]

EGPFlyer

18th Aug 2001, 18:25

7 1/2 hours for me at 21 in a chirpy little AA5, GBHZO :)

18th Aug 2001, 18:36

12 hours at an age of 17 :D :D

Determined

18th Aug 2001, 18:52

5.5 hours at the age of 19.

Had 8 hours glider time beforehand however.

Determined.

DoWeHaveLiftOff?

18th Aug 2001, 19:18

Can anyone please comment on how many hours they had once they finished their PPL, please?

window-seat

18th Aug 2001, 19:31

9.5 hrs @ age 28, with 51 hrs on completion.

Whilst I was training, a young lad (still wet behind the ears) aged just 17, went solo under 7 hrs, and passed his skill test at bang on the 45hrs!

Then his dad had to come and pick him up cos he couldn't even drive a car! :eek:

Tranquillity Base

18th Aug 2001, 19:46

13 hours at the age of 25.C-150 N60656 at Scan-Am in Vero Beach,Florida on the 26th January 1989.(Company went bust shortly after).
What a relief it was to get my instructor out of the cockpit. Seems like only yesterday....happy days.

Blindside

18th Aug 2001, 19:47

7 hrs first solo.
23 hrs first solo nav.
45 hrs including skills test.
50 hrs including night rating.

29 yrs old.

That was a JAR course in the States though. That's flying 2-5 hours a day for three weeks for you.

I've got the paperwork, now I learn how to fly.

Is this the only time that a group of (mostly) men stand around comparing who has the smallest??
:p

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Blindside ]

Whirlybird

18th Aug 2001, 19:57

DWHLO,

80 hours is not that unusual. Took me 90, and like you, I'd done practically everything before I went solo. National average is around 60-70, with loads of individual variation. People learn at different rates, and schools and instructors teach in different ways. It doesn't always mean anything either, in terms of your ability. At the school I went to, one young chap did the whole course in 40 hours (the minimum pre-JAR) then got lost on a cross country from Welshpool, landing at Llanbedr instead of Caernarfon. Now getting lost is common, landing at the wrong airfield not that uncommon, but confusing Llanbedr with Caernarfon!!!! They're miles apart, on very dissimilar bits of coastline, and have apbsolutely no resemblance to each other. So doing everything in record time doesn't necessarily make you a good pilot. At the other end of the scale, an instructor friend of mine regularly has students who take over 100 hours. The school owner is very meticulous, and won't sign them off until they really know what they're doing. Whereas some people seem to get their PPL's when they can just about fly, and just about navigate, in good conditions, on nice big runways, etc etc etc. There's much more to flying that counting the hours.

DoWeHaveLiftOff?

18th Aug 2001, 20:33

Thanks for your reply Whirlybird,

I thought maybe the instructors/school are out trying to squeeze every penny from you. What you say is absolutlty correct but there is a doubt these days on the schools.

VFE

18th Aug 2001, 20:38

Around 9 hours last year, 2 days before my 23rd birthday in a C.152 Aerobat.

Tiger_ Moth

18th Aug 2001, 20:45

Hmmmm... Ive got 3 hours so far and the next lesson is slow flight with stalling. After that and maybe some spinning its onto circuits so how long would it take me to go solo, probably, given that it does take longer to learn to land a Tiger?

28thJuly2001

18th Aug 2001, 20:58

21 hours to solo at age 32, PPL at 76 hours.

TOP_GUN

18th Aug 2001, 21:16

:D 11hrs at 16 at Glasgow Flying Club . 44hrs total after today 18/8. Was ready for skills test <40hrs thanx to GFC only one more hr to go...Damm will have to sit the skills test now-nappies please...hehehe
Ross
:D

scroggs

18th Aug 2001, 22:08

9500 hours and I still haven't got a PPL :D

George T

18th Aug 2001, 23:57

I Did mine after 4.5 hrs at 18 years old in 1980. :eek: :eek: I know this is quite unusual but I had a nut for a CFI. It was in the days when we had to do spinning. He would take us up to about 4000 feet and we would spin down to 2000 before we recovered!!!! Anyway I’m still here to tell the tale. As I recall it was one of the best landings I’ve ever made :)

Whirlybird

18th Aug 2001, 23:58

Tiger,

Absolutely impossible to say, but sounds like you're getting on OK, so probably not all that long.

squitter

19th Aug 2001, 00:06

Good response everyone. Keep them coming. Some interesting points too. Ez. 8hrs and shaking? Care to elaborate. Shaking with excitement or nerves! Whirlybird. Excellent point. I suspect some instructors may be of the opinion that solo in minimum hours reflects their instruction skills. Whats the hurry eh? George T. You`re lucky to be alive!

George T

19th Aug 2001, 00:12

Too true Squitter. The next time I went up I Landed so fast and bounced so hard I took off again!

floridian falcon

19th Aug 2001, 00:16

11.4 hours to solo
48.4 hours for PPL

and my thanks to Pat Buchanan of Orlando Flight Training for putting up with me for so long. - The more he shouted the better I got.

FF :cool: :cool:

squitter

19th Aug 2001, 00:18

FF. Age?

G SXTY

19th Aug 2001, 00:49

Age 29, first solo took me from 10h50 > 11h15. ("Just one circuit" said the man. Little did he realise I was about to do an impression of a space-hopper riding a pogo-stick. :) ).

18 hours in and I'm still in one piece, although I think the instructor retired on health grounds. :D :D

BlipOnTheRadar

19th Aug 2001, 01:11

38 hours to solo
107 hours to PPL

First flight 3rd March 1990
Last flight 22nd July 2001

Age 22 when I started, 32 at first solo and 33 now, waiting for license to land on my doormat :D

Damn weather :(

Fly safely

BOTR

Trefdraeth

19th Aug 2001, 02:11

well, 4.5hrs to solo - maybe. My instructor was honest and told me he could sent any chipanzee solo once they's sussed the circuit, but he said he wouldn't send any of his students up on their own until they had mastered a flapless, short field and a glide. Damn I thought, more hours....am I being tucked up here???................ Sure enough the chap in the circuit in front of me on his 1st solo had a flaps failure. He made the circuit and safe landing. Lucky for him we shared the same instructor. Moral? I'd rather have gone solo at 25hrs and been properly trained than thrown up in the air at 10 hrs in the hope that nothing went pear shaped in that magic 8 mins....

PPL now in 57 hrs. Same instrucor now required for my IMC. :eek: :eek:

Facts Not Fiction Pls

19th Aug 2001, 03:01

19 years and 16 hours! What a blast!!!! :D

BlipOnTheRadar

19th Aug 2001, 03:47

Facts Not Fiction Pls,

I thought my record was bad :p

Were you caught under the same decade-long storm cloud as me? :eek:

Everything comes to he who waits!

Fly safely

BlipOnTheRadar

Echo Echo

19th Aug 2001, 04:55

I thought I held the world's record but after reading all these I don't feel so bad. 46 years old, 37 hours to solo, 79 hours to PPL. Now 437 hours later I'm 3 days away from taking my IFR checkride. :eek:

hdaae

19th Aug 2001, 12:00

When reading that ppl solo at under 10 hours it makes me a little concerned. Im a flight instructor and have soloed quite a few people. 16 years old to 50+. I could have soloed some of them at less than 10 hours just for the purpose of getting them soloed, but I rather have a safe pilot up there in the pattern. Granted, the airport enviroment ive instructed in have always been very busy so the ability to adequately deal with fast communications and sometimes non standard instructions have been imperative.
The point is that the student needs a minimum of 40 hours (USA) to get his/her lisence. Why not spend atleast 15-20 hours making sure the student knows more than only the minimum needed to survive a solo?

My students solos at around 17-25 hours depending on how strong their radio skills are, and how their PIC attitude develops.

I think it shows a little shortsighteness from the CFIs side when they let ppl go off solo at around 4 hours...

Just my 2 cents.....

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: SkyBug ]

Wee Weasley Welshman

19th Aug 2001, 12:26

At age 16 I went solo and my dusty old logbook says I had 7hrs 50mins at that time.

At 17 I went on to complete an RAF Flying Schol which was three weeks long. I added 10hrs to get a PPL the week after in min hours.

I think in general and with wide variation it is preferable to be younger and train more intensively if you can.

This thread really shouldn't be taken as a willy measuring competition. As an instructor I have sent weaker students earlier than stronger ones for all kinds of reason including weather, my worktime utilisation, particular aircraft availability, confidence/morale issues, team building etc. etc.

Good luck one and all,

WWW

Whirlybird

19th Aug 2001, 12:48

Very well put WWW. Though actually I had no intention of joining in a willy measuring competition. :D :D :D.

But seriously, I've always felt that far too much is made of first solo. Yes, it is exciting for the student (most of them; I was just glad to finally get it done). Yes, it proves you can fly, just. But beyond that it really means very little.

I too thought for ages I held the world record for hours to first solo. When I finally stopped caring, stopped keeping it secret, and started telling people, I discovered this huge variation. The main difference was that the people who soloed in under 10 hours would tell the world; those who took over 30 kept it quiet. Maybe we should form a 30+-hours-to-solo group. :D :D :D

flaps to 60

19th Aug 2001, 14:31

Tiger moth

As an instructor I have to say that you are being taken for a ride.
There is no way that you can be instructed PROPERLY and cover excercises 3 to 9 with all the associated part a's and b's etc in 3 hours.
when you do slow fligh and stalling it should be 1-1.5hrs at least just to make sure you understand the full implications of a stall at low level in a turn ie base and finals.

Your instructor is being very unprofessional and potentially a killer of an inexperienced pilot.

What you learn at this stage stays with you forever and if you want to go onto the airlines will show up very quickly at sim test stage.

The earliest for cadets on an intergrated course when I did mine was about 10 hours (I did mine just over 10) but we covered everything properly and to a set standard.

I suggest you look at your log book and see if you have covered all the lessons properly as JAR requires and if not ask your instructor to explain himself.

BTW I have taken on students who have been thrown into the circuit in about 3-4 hours and have had to retrain them from the beginning and make sure you get your ground briefs.

Good luck

:) :) :)

Vfrpilotpb

19th Aug 2001, 14:59

First solo at 20.2 hours R22, at age 50,
PPL(H) GFT @ 45.5hrs. :D :D

Blindside

19th Aug 2001, 15:26

Is it not the case that students learn alot from flying solo? I know that I did. It certainly focuses the mind when you realise that it is all down to you.

I don't understand why people need to learn the majority of the PPL course before being allowed to go solo? Is it not a question of them being safe to fly the circuit and deal with certain abnormal circumstances should they arise? How can this take 50 hrs?

Of course there are circumstances that make each PPL different ie weather, instructor, time, student ability etc etc. However, I can't help thinking that if individuals are not going solo after a reasonable number of hours then they are being milked like any cash cow. There must be an element of this and it's a disgrace at approximately £100 per hour.

It probably says more about the flying school or instructor than the student.

Surely it is similar to learning to drive. Get the basics in place, make the student safe, pass the test, then in reality learn how to drive when you have your licence.

Regards

peanutter

19th Aug 2001, 15:44

first solo 8.5 hrs, aged 18. Now 19 and just over 200 hrs.

VFE

19th Aug 2001, 15:45

I was a foot taller after my first solo - did anyone else experience this quick spurt of growth? I also had shakes that would put Ozzy Osbourne in the shade!

Richard49

19th Aug 2001, 17:34

Aged 49 and first solo at 32 hours (mind you had 10 hours of club trips (Luxembourg, Isle of Wight and Jersey included in that) - passed GFT at around 70 hours and now have 140 hours in the books with 40 hours solo, but 20 hours of that 140 hours was a 20 hour night and IMC in the states. Work it out for yourself, now off to do a full instrument rating as flying in Ireland can't use my IMC here - I do know one thing I don't think age has a particular significance, but consistency of flying does, I did my night and MC at Ormonde Beach Aviation and there were plenty of UK guys who were there for a full 3 week course and when you fly consistently every day I know it makes a difference - the CFI there (Adrian from memory) was a real stickler and had no problems in failing anyone who didn't come upto scratch and although basically you were left on your own, the whole atmosphere of nothing but flying certainly does help.

God I hate Air Law and here I am doing it for a third time as it's covered in PPL IMC and IR.

ps: don't you just love this site it's soooo addictive!

Richard49

19th Aug 2001, 17:39

a further thought once said to me by me Instructor - it's not the number of hours you have flown that counts, it's how you are going to fly the next hour that really matters. :cool:

brockenspectre

19th Aug 2001, 18:00

I first solo-ed at age 31 and after 21hrs! My landing was almost the best I have ever done - a real "kiss down". It couldn't have been a more perfect moment, the sky was blue, the sun shining, no sheep on the runway (yes I learned at a grass strip!) and over the radio came many voices congratulating me! It was the best, happiest, most exhilarating experience! :D

cubby

19th Aug 2001, 20:50

14 hours to solo
48 hours to licence ( old caa licence )
1996
age 27
@ southampton
In AA5A G-OMOG it was a Blast and
was Relieved to be free at last!!
Cubby..
:)

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: cubby ]

Monkey See Monkey Do

19th Aug 2001, 21:06

Hey Squitter,
In response to your question, it was both. I think.

Still, all I can recall is that I was afraid that ATC could see my rudder shaking!

Ez

hdaae

20th Aug 2001, 00:56

As far as the CFI milking you for hours.
I had that impression when I did my Single Engine Commecial in Usa. The CFI merely said "thats not good enough..now do it again"
without pointing out my errors. I knew I were taken for a ride, but since I were almost done I just rode it out and got my lisence. It didnt cost me that much more, but it were a frustrating feeling.

And keeping someone for 50 hours before solo..well..depends on how frequent you fly.
If you fly once a month etc you lose alot of the touch and need to be retrained on what your last lesson were about. But..still 50 hours sounds like milking to me.
But looking at Part 61 in FAR (USA) there are are a certain manuvers you have to be proficient in and there is NO WAY it can be done in 4-6 hours. And by not getting your student proficient, your actually breaking the law.
As far as the student growing on the solo expirience. Sure..I remember when I soloed myself. I felt great achivement and my will to push myself harder increased. Ive seen the same on my students also. They improve alot after going solo.
But...if you havent trained your student sufficient, he/she might not get thru the solo expirience 100%. What if he/she faces a situation that werent presented earlier and he/she has no knowledge/skills to recover from that situation? Sometimes this will scare a student so much that the joy of flying is gone..or in worst case, the student dies.

Solo makes the student grow, but only if he/she survive.

I know this is a very cynical and grim way of expressing my thoughts, but Im just trying to prove a point. It might be extreme and a one in 10000, but when it happens, both you and the student wished that you had gone deeper into the training.

Base leg

20th Aug 2001, 01:27

where's my bloody logbook !!!!!!

Sensible

20th Aug 2001, 01:36

At age 50 it took 23 hrs to solo and there can be few less determined than I. Learnt to drive at age 13 with 13 year old "instructor" (my school mate) passed driving test without further instruction at age 17. Age certainly has an effect on the learning process.

Norman Stanley Fletcher

20th Aug 2001, 02:01

10 hours 6 mins at age 22. Finished PPL at about 44 hours (it was possible then). Did 69 hours total before chucking it in until I was 36. I was then on a CAP 509 course and went solo again after just over 4 hours. That shows you that even with a 14 year break the 'riding a bike' bit is true. It all came flooding back.

Just out of interest, on that 509 course (that is a commercial pilot's course for those not in the know), we had a guy who had not gone solo after 25 hours. He was invited to withdraw himself from training, which he duly did. Hard rules you may say but I am only reporting what happened.

I have subsequently done a lot of instructing on singles and am now a Line Training Captain on turboprops. Never once have I asked, or indeed been asked, how long it took someone to go solo. What people are interested in is if you can do the job.

Simon W

20th Aug 2001, 02:07

Did first solo a couple of months back with 13.5 hours. I'm 24 and slowly working towards completion of the PPL.

Regards,

SImon

20th Aug 2001, 04:30

I went solo last Saturday in 10.5 hours, aged 23 from Redhill. Did anybody else think that their first solo was the smoothest, most peaceful flight ever, or were you all wracked with nerves?
For those who think that I am just trying to act cool with a statement like that, let me tell you, I had real trouble maintaining control of my bodily functions, until I turned onto crosswind! Then, I was fine, no problems, and my best landing yet!
Maybe you settle down when you don't have an instructor's critical eye being cast over your every move?

G-BXWO

Dupre

20th Aug 2001, 10:01

14.5hrs at age 19, at NZ's busiest aerodrome - though i had only done 3hrs in the last year (year gap after 11.5hrs).

PPL at 78.5hrs - feel i was taken for a bit of a ride though...

Token Bird

20th Aug 2001, 12:15

It's probably a combination of age and frequency of flying. I've been studying for PPL for over 2 years now! Currently at 37 hours, estimating PPL at around 50 hrs.

Anyway, went solo last July at 14hr 45mins (my club average is about 17 hrs), aged 24, having averaged about 1 hour per month up 'til then.

If I'd done it in a more intensive time-scale, without all the relearning each time I'm sure I could've done it quicker.

Clouded Yellow

20th Aug 2001, 12:56

47 years old, about 15 hours. But I was badly held up with the weather. well, I would say that wouldnt I.

Lawyerboy

20th Aug 2001, 13:53

Last year, 16 July 2000. Was 27 years old, went solo on 28.05 hours. For what it's worth I only fly once, sometimes twice a month, and my tuppence' worth is that it's nowt to do with age, it's to do with how often you fly and with whom.

I've now got 4 hours solo and am about to start nav training, with a view to finishing the whole shebang sometime next Spring. Hopefully ATPL theory after that.

MasterGreen

20th Aug 2001, 14:18

It's almost always a continuity thing. Too young can be an issue and so can too old (but I personally have never established those limits).

When you are ready - you know it as well as the instructor - although hopefully you are more surprised than he/she is when it happens.

Enjoy it - it only happens the once....

It's all uphill after that....

MG

hasell

20th Aug 2001, 15:45

Aged 32 and solo'd at 21 hours.
I agree with some of the other postings that the frequency of flying certainly is a factor as to how quickly one goes solo.

4Screwaircrew

20th Aug 2001, 18:17

24 August 1981 4 days after my 18th birthday total time 7 hours on a Flying Scholarship.
Completed PPL at 39 hours.

20 years later as B 737 Captain and GA instructor I am still learning something on every flight.

Airbus A320

20th Aug 2001, 18:36

14 hours, at the ripe age of 19 in Florida (what a mistake that was.....)

Harold Bishop

20th Aug 2001, 18:44

19 Years old and 8 hours, the instructor was keen on me beating a very arrogant group of RAF cadets, managed to do it by an hour or so. In the end secured my ppl in 42 hours.

Tiger_ Moth

20th Aug 2001, 20:20

Flaps to 60,
Thankyou for your kind concern but all my instructors are very good and each briefing is extensive. I said I had 3 hours but that wasnt including my trial lesson ( because I had it a year ago ) which would bring it up to 3.5 hours altogether. We have covered everything up to ex 9 and done it properly and past exercises are always incorporated into the next lesson to bring it all together. Obviously im not perfect but Im getting better and wont be on circuits too soon. Ive still got to do slow flight, stalls and spins before circuits so that puts it a good 2 lessons away and maybe some brushing up on flying skills so I wouldnt imagine Id be doing circuits before 2 more hours, absolute earliest.
Circuits incorporate lots of things: straight and level, turning, climbing , descending etc and it takes longer to learn to land Tiger Moths so I will be on circuits for ages. I dont know if you got the impression that i was going solo in under 10 hours or something but im not: itll probably be about 20 earliest, but that is a vague guess.

And by the way, there is a lot of talk of its better to take ages to solo than to crash but how many people on their solos actually do crash?

flaps to 60

21st Aug 2001, 01:32

Tiger

3.5 hours still sounds a little on the low side but i didn't know that you were doing it in a Tiger Moth. If it has no flaps then then 3.5 might be ok but I can't comment as I have no experince flying them.

Sorry if I ranted a bit ealier but as an instructor it is very disheartning when you see other so called professionals extracting the urine with other peoples money and more importantly lives with poor training.

You will never forget your first solo and as I tell all my students dont rush it will happen when it happens.

hdaae

21st Aug 2001, 06:57

Tiger_ Moth

I didnt say it happens on a daily basis, but when students gets sent on solos with inadequate training there are a bigger chance for mistakes, which can have dire results in the WORST case scenario. Ofcourse that doesnt mean that a student should be held back if he/she is ready. Everyone is different, and when I quoted my estimate of around 17 hours I felt that thats a safe and not excessive amount of hours. There is still 23 hours left until you reach the 40 hour FAR/US limit, and most students end up with 45-50 hours for their private lisence.
Knowing this, I rather give a couple of hours extra dual given to make sure the student doesnt end up having a terrible expirience when he/she goes solo for the first time. It happens very seldom, but one time is one time too many.

dingducky

21st Aug 2001, 17:27

around 24 hrs at age 21

Fergal

21st Aug 2001, 18:26

Can I just ask a question to all those who went solo under 10 hours? Did ye do all exercises? Flapless app, Glide app, short field, soft field, engine failures? Cos fair play to ye if ye were all able to exercises from 4 - 14!!
Cheers :)

busdriver25

21st Aug 2001, 20:42

14 hours at age 19 in a C-172. But that was 13 years ago. :D :cool: :D

Cessna Boy

21st Aug 2001, 22:03

17hrs 25 minutes, one leg doing the Elvis shake whilst taxiing out to A1, wife and parents watching, GBFVU, and 2 days after my 30th birthday! Ah what a week! :D

Tiger_ Moth

21st Aug 2001, 22:04

Flaps, you werent ranting i can see you were just concerned but all the instructors at the club are very good professionals and they dont actually get paid, they are just doing it because they like to and I dont feel at all rushed. Also I probably wont be soloing soon because just because you've covered say turns and have gone onto climbing youll still be coming back to turns all the time until everything fits together and can be integrated accurately. Everything is treated individually at the start but its starting to be more merged together, eg: turn back to the airfield and descend to 1000 rather than just turn to the airfield.