No Offence to Ryanair, but...

[GordonBurford]

I fly quite a lot, typically between London (ish) and Glasgow (ish). I generally book about a month before and buy whoever is cheapest, unless a BA seat is available and isn't to much more expensive. So I've flowing RyanAir, Easyjet, BA, BMI, British European, Go and a few others.

I've noticed that (generally) you get a smoother flilght with BA (and to a lesser extent BMI) than you do with easyjet, Ryanair and their Ilk. Obviously you might expect the approaches to be different because they're approaching over different areas, but it seems to be true at altitude as well. Beside that, i'd have expected the approach over a city into GLA to be more choppy than then approach to PIK over Flat Ayrshire countyside and a Loch?

Question is... Is it just me, or are BA/BMI pilots smoother? Maybe they have some additional training, maybe the aircraft have some upgraded equipment.. Maybe it's just me imagining it. Maybe it's a false impression I get because BA Aircraft are usually immaculate, whereas Ryanair's planes frequenty look like they're been dragged through a hedge backwards..... Plus BA/BMis cabin and gate staff are obviously better trained, more numerous and better equipped.

[WHBM]

Ryanair's fleet on Stansted to Prestwick is still their 20-year old 737-200s. They don't use their 737-800s on this route yet. The last one I flew on (EI-CNX earlier this month) had all the firmness gone from the seat cushions (all the other SLF were commenting on it too), you just were supported by the seat frame perimeter. It was like being sat on a toilet seat for an hour. So it's not surprising if the airframe vibrations are more readily transferred to your body!

BA are mostly Airbus now, and all fairly new. Yes, there is a difference between something designed in the 1960s and the 1980s (which is when these two designs were done), in terms of aerodynamics, handling, etc. All that computer-design and computer-control stuff is not there for nothing. There's even more difference with age, where all the close fit etc in the airframe will have opened up just a tad.

I think the average number of hours that the skipper and the FO have is probably different between the two carriers, and I'm sure you can guess which way the difference is. Sure the Ryanair crew are qualified and competent. And in 5 years they will be even more competent ...

BMI use mainly A321s, which on final approach are apparently more of a handful than the A320/A319 - better ask the experts on the pilot's forum about that.

[GordonBurford]

Right, so it might not be just me! Thanks for the info. For the record, i've flown on a couple of types with BA, including 737s. The first time I got on an A320 it actually made me laugh out loud because it sounded so much like the model aircraft I love to fly! I think that was a BA aircraft, but I'm not sure.

I hope no one thinks I'm complaining about Ryanair, or getting at their crews in any way. I understand that if you pay less, you generally GET less. A Mercedes costs more than a Fiat for a reason, and so it is with Airline tickets and (indeed) Aircraft. You pays your money, and you takes yer choice. Ryanair are not as reliable or as comfortable as BA, in my experiance. But then, they cost a lot less (most of the time). You only have to look at how well-equiped the cabins and cabin staff are to see where the economies are being made. They've never claimed to be anything other than a "no frills" operator offering the lowest fairs, in exchange for certain economies - Fair play to Ryanair. BA Never claimed to be the cheapest (although they're trying to ditch the "fat cat" image at the moment) - Fair play to BA, too!

Ryanair are a brilliant, unpretencious "no-frills" operator. BA do the "luxury and service" angle better than anyone else I can think of. All the other operators manage to find their niche at one end of the spectrum or the other. And I wish them the best of luck. I am quite happy to fly with any operator you care to mention. But then, I love flying!

[Flame]

WHBM;

Do you really have any idea on how aircraft fly from point A to point B at all..???

[GordonBurford]

Yeah, I've got a reasonable idea of how planes fly, and I am learning more (hence questions like why a Ryanair flight seems bumpier than a BA one).

In case you are wondering, if you check my sig you'll find that i'm a wannabe. But i'd have hoped you'd have worked that one out already.

[FastJet Wannabe]

Ryanair DO operate the 738 on the STN-PIK route. The 732's that operate the route are PIK based, the 738's are STN based.

[WHBM]

FastJet Wannabe

I'm just going on Ryanair's own schedule material they supply to the global schedule data collectors. At the moment it's showing me that STN-PIK is down to be operated by 2 732s, one based at each end, each doing 5 return trips a day. If they've substituted a 738 for the STN one, ad hoc or permanently, so be it.

[atomic angel uk]

Plus BA/BMis cabin and gate staff are obviously better trained, more numerous and better equipped.....

Sorry guys have to disagree with this....as most UK Airports have handling agents rather than the actual airline I think that the comment about staff obviously being better trained WITH BA and BMis is not obvious at all! I have worked for 14 years for the airlines and some of our other staff for longer....Just because pax and airlines pay staff less does not necessarily mean that you get less customer service....

You only have to look at how well-equiped the cabins and cabin staff are to see where the economies are being made....

I am sure that some of the cabin crew would disagree with that! (and not sure how economies are made as the cabin crew are some of the highest paid in the UK!)

Just spare a thought for the staff that are reading this!!

By the way the majority of the aircraft on our route are brand new 737 800 series...not bad for penny flights!

[Xenia]

Maybe it's not the fact of staff being better trained, perhaps the turn over of cabin crew within Ryan is higher than BA or other schedule airlines. Crew with more seniority means crew with more experience....
Let's spare a thought for Ryan Air Cabin Crew, personally I give them a lot of credit for being such a hard working people
:)

[GordonBurford]

I never said Ryanair's staff were not as good, but it's obvious that BA's have more expensive/comprehensive uniforms, and it seems to me (as a passenger) that they're given some additional customer care training as well. Plus you get fed on BA/BMI flights, which is nice but unnecessary in reality. Usually I stare out the window for the majority of the trip, though......

You pays yet money and ya takes yer choice. Usually I choose Ryanair, or Easyjet, because they're cheaper and it's a short enough flight that it doesn't really matter that we don't get fed. When time is critical I take BA because they're more reliable, and they tend to land nearer to where I want to be. Again, having replacement aircraft available in the event of a technical glitch, and landing at hubs, is an extra-cost facility that Ryanair don't offer and BA do.

Which is why there is such a big difference in costs.

[GordonBurford]

Ryanair's (as all airline) cabin staff certainly earn their wages, they're impressively hard working and it must be hard to keep smiling all the time. I always get annoyed when the passengers give staff a hard time over delayed flights. It's not the cabin staffs fault, and I don't suppose they wanted to be late home, either. I always think people should have paid extra if they wanted to fly with an airline who had redundant aircraft, or some other means to cover technical problems.

Thinking about it, the only time i've even known "the nut holding the controls" to actually speak to the passengers about a delay while they were waiting at the gate was on a Ryanair flight. He was a pleasant irish lad, wanting to get home to STN himself. He actually came out to explain to us what was happening and calm everyone down. Then gradually got agitated as when he saw as an unnecessary delay got longer and longer and eventually the flight was cancelled.

Moving back to Cabin staff for a moment. Ryanair do have some very pretty ladies on the route betwixt STN and PIK. So do BMI on their LHR-GLA. Their recruitment teams have good taste, I must say ;-D

[bealine]

Sorry guys have to disagree with this....as most UK Airports have handling agents rather than the actual airline

Sorry, Atomic Angel, you're wrong!!!

Most small airlines or charters use handling agents, the two in questionm BA and BMI use their own staff which explains the more professional attitude. BA also act as handling agent for some other airlines and also charter its own aircraft to some of the leading tour operators (and, no, your Executive Club card does not get any mileage and you can't check in at the business class desks for charter flights!)

Before anyone gets on their high horse, the handling agents Servisair, Aviance, Reed Aviation etc do employ good staff in the main BUT, when the proverbial hits the fan, there is the tendency for them to hide behind the "speak to the airline about it" excuse.

[GordonBurford]

Whooaaa..

Before anyone gets into who has the best Cabin staff too much, I want to point out that I was only asking if there was any good reason why BA flights were smoother.

Yeah, the planes are newer and the pilots are older..... Which is basically what I expected people to say.

[atomic angel uk]

Actually Bealine was just discussing Ryanair not any airline!!