Dubious Swiss Security? Victorinox rules!

[Capt Marble]

From personal experience (relatives travelling over Christmas) this is true:

No problem about Victorinox knife kits (OK penknifes) in handbaggage for pax out of Zurich and Geneva - security turn a blind eye. When questioned they reply that all Victorinox kit is for sale in GVA and ZRH duty free shops and they are protecting world-famous and respected Swiss products. They would be bankrupted if Swiss security checks banned their products.

Do we just have a chuckle at the quaint Swiss or kick up a fuss at this flagrant and bizarre lapse of international security? Apart from the fact that these security-cleared pax can then filter into transit pax at other airports (my experience is LHR).

Bitter and twisted as my much-loved knife is languishing in a sack at LHR. (OK, OK I know that was careless).

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Thank god at least one western country is applying some common dog to"security".What are you going to do?Threaten to tweeze the cabin crew or perhaps snip them with the wee scissor thingy?.
Meanwhile the rest of us issue 'Champers in toughened glass bottles while confiscating granny's knitting needles.

[RatherBeFlying]

If you try to stab somebody with a SWAK, there is an excellent probability the blade will fold back on your own fingers.

Besides which the blades are stainless and will likely bend if stuck into live tissue.

Well, you might poke the awl in about half an inch if it doesn't fold on your fingers.

In a self-defense situation, I can do nastier damage to the opposition with my keys on a ring -- and keep my fingers.

On the other hand, box cutters are serious weapons, as we have sadly seen:(

[Momo]

I was behind someone buying one of these knives in the Duty Free at Geneva airport two weeks ago. She asked the cashier whether it was OK. The cashier asked what airline she was on. The customer replied that she was flying Iberia to Madrid. The cashier said that this was no problem. From this I deduce that the instructions to the cashiers depend on the airline or the destination. The old rule used to be 4"/10cm blades max, and I suspect that this is now the current rule again, in most cases. (I suspect there was no formal change ever made to the "international rules".)

Have to look at whether the same knives are on sale in other airports...

Swiss itself has returned to using steel knives with meals. I don't see the issue with this, as the plastic knives we get on other airlines can still cut meat, of whatever variety.

Momo

[Robert Vesco]

Thank god at least one western country is applying some common dog to"security".What are you going to do?Threaten to tweeze the cabin crew or perhaps snip them with the wee scissor thingy?.

As a matter of fact, ZRH is now installing an X-Ray machine and metal detectors at the crew exit. Should be up and running within a couple of weeks.

So are we going to see passengers walking onto aircraft with Swiss Army Knives while the crews are searched for anything which has a pointy/sharp edge on it ? :confused: Great Swiss logic ! :rolleyes:

[crewrest]

An X-ray Mcahine at the crew exit, you mean they never had one?

:eek:

[curmudgeon]

This morning at Geneva I saw the knives on sale at the duty free.

Five minutes later at the x-ray machine before boarding, I saw the staff put a pair of ladies boots and a pair of mens walking boots through the machine, whilst a bare footed couple looked on.

I'm all for more security, but are the security staff trying to find out if they've hidden knives in their boots?


cur

[Flightrider]

9-11 or no 9-11, the shops airside in Switzerland are a particular hazard and have been for many years. We are not talking little penknives here - rather nasty-looking sharp knives of all descriptions were on sale when in GVA earlier this year. BAA security would have an absolute dicky fit if you tried to take some of the shops' products through the security search at LHR or LGW.

The Swiss attitude to security is blase to the point of being dangerous. And if you don't believe me, try asking a certain cabin crew member who had a blade held to her neck whilst threatening to blow the aircraft up. This is all thanks to the Swiss policy of allowing blades, knives, scissors etc through the security checks. And that - unlike everywhere else - hasn't changed since last year.

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2000/11/974121603.html

[Knold]

I remember a couple of flights to GVA. We went through the crew entry at some GA terminal (don't know why) I think. For all I can remember they were very thorough, but maybe that was because of the GA thing.

[Taildragger67]

RatherBeFlying,

A chap I once sailed with had a rather useful little 'Swiss Army Knife'. Whole thing about 3" long when folded, but the blade was a VERY sharp, serrated (like a steak knife) and lockable. Manually opened out (so not a flick-knife), but then needed a little slider moved to retract it. Where did he buy it? GVA air-side. It also had a combined shackle-key-&-knot-picker with a sharp point. Anyway - got it through there, plus other ports. It was loads sturdier and nastier than any box-cutter I've ever seen.

I personally haven't been through ZRH or GVA in a while, but my recollection is that such items were on sale air-side well after 11 September.

[RatherBeFlying]

Taildragger67,

I agree that any lock-back blades are serious weapons, including those few models of swak that have them.

In my post, I was thinking much more of the common models that include screwdrivers, openers, tweezers etc.

[Robert Vesco]

Hi Crewrest :

An X-ray Mcahine at the crew exit, you mean they never had one? :eek: Nope ! Welcome to the darkage !

[Knold]

At GVA they had an X-ray machine. Haven't been to ZRH.

[crewrest]

Amazing; and I can't get a nail file to work if I wanted.

[SOPS]

Well here we go again, and as i have discussed in another post, "welcome to the "new, real world" In other parts of the world, things are as crazy, but I think OTT crazy. Today,I was asked for my ID 4 times, my licence once, my passport once, was "metal detected" twice, and at the end of that asked for my Crew Pass, and then had my suit case Xrayed. I am really, realy, really sure, that any passanger/terroist is not subject to all these checks. But as arrive to get on my aircraft, with a crew, who know me , well maybe not, but today I had a purser who I have known for 12 years, we are subject to more insane stuff than I have ever seen..................................

[saddles]

You can buy a swak after a security check at Geneva in the gift shop in those little departure gate things!

[El Grifo]

Not Switzerland related I admit but on a recent internal flight on Bangkok Airways from BKK to USM, I was stopped from taking a Mini, key ring sized, multi-tool on board.

I had to laugh when right next to the security check, was a fifty gallon drum,3/4 full of sand, with the instruction :-

"Please discharge all firearms here prior to boarding the aircraft"

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[tropicopter]

I recently forgot that I'd left my little SWAK (one of those little 1 inch long ones with tweezers and scissors) in my trousers and had it confiscated by a Swiss International security man after a very rough and thorough manual search prior to boarding the flight to ZRH. Naturally, the (excellent) meal was served soon after departure complete with all metal cutlery! At ZRH I found that I could purchase a new SWAK with no problem prior to boarding my flight to AMS. When I went through security before the departure gate, they didn't bat an eyelid when I put it in the little tray with my money, mobile etc., but I was told to remove my trouser belt and put it through the X-ray machine because it had a metal buckle. However, my (metal) Caran D'Ache pen set off the alarm when I walked through the metal detector, so I was again given a very thorough frisking, prior to being handed back my possessions including the SWAK! It just defies logic.
:confused:

[SOPS]

:confused: yes tropi that is what is missing at the moment, in a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG WAY, Logic. I just hope it can/will get better.

[Knold]

With the Swiss? Yeah right!

[PanicButton]

You probably couldn't stab anyone with a Victoryknox. You could however very well cut someone's throat with it. Holding the knife against someones neck is far more threatning than stabbing. If you cut a persons primary artery in the neck the person will most certainly die.

[RatherBeFlying]

Cutting a single carotid artery or jugular vein, while extremely serious, is not inevitably fatal. Immediate and sustained pressure can control bleeding long enough to get the casualty to surgery. I have heard of at least one such injury to the neck caused by a hockey skate where the casualty survived because of immediate first aid.

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

Try going through Frankfurt. My airline is X-rayed and physically searched. Alongside us is Royal Air Brunai and Malaysian, who are just waved through. On querying this with our station manager, I was told that unless the airlines country agrees to the search, it is not done.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that a member of these crews could be threatened or bribed to carry something airside and then hand it on to a passenger boarding any flight. There is no further security for passengers before boarding.
I'm glad to see that CDG have tightened up. Until recently, crews were driven to the A/C with no search. You could then wander up the airbridge into the terminal. Once again it only takes one crew member to be frightened into carrying something airside to make a complete nonsense of the millions spent on security by the state and by the airlines.
States should have the gumption to tell these countries - no search - don't bother coming.

[JW411]

thedeadseawasonlysick:

Could the fact that Royal Brunei and Malaysian are both airlines from Muslim countries have some bearing on the matter?

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

JW411

I didn't want to say that, but since you bought it up.
Most Western European countries tend to pussyfoot around when dealing with Third World countries. France in particular is always looking for future opportunities for it's industries and is reluctant to do or say anything to annoy unless their own interests are at stake, as is Germany.
Britain is not immune to this. Some years ago, a newspaper exposed the bribery involved in British companies winning contracts for the construction of a dam in Malaysia. What ever your feelings about bribery, it is a fact of life elsewhere in the world. The Malaysian Prime Minister, however, took exception to the expose and threatened to ban British imports. Instead of pointing out the realities of the situation i.e. Malaysia exports twice as much to Britain as we do to them, we sent them a grovelling apology. Banning the import of all Proton cars just might have given them pause for thought. It would certainly have helped the British car industry.
To get back to the subject, however. I don't know, but I think it extremely unlikely that the US allows these airlines to avoid security checks. So why does Germany?

[JW411]

thedeadseawasonlysick:

I was not refering to corruption or the problems of the car industry. I simply wonder what kudos Al Qaeda and the like would gain by inflicting harm upon a Muslim airline?

[flufdriver]

Good heavens!

SWAK's on board aircraft, how is it possible that there has not yet been a terrrr attack via this golden opportunity?

Does anyone out there actually believe 9/11 could have been prevented by the confiscation of the "boxcutters' prior to the flight?

Please let sanity return!