Midair in Angola?

[Propstop]

Heard this afternoon a possible midair in southern Angola between TAAG B737 and B200. Anybody shed any light. Herk Jerk???

[Gunship]

ALLAFRICA (http://allafrica.com/angola/newswire/)

As of 2200 Z nothing on this link yet (normally they will be first with the news) ? Hopefully wrong info. Southern Africa do not need msihaps like this - although we all seen to know it will happen sooner than later ... especially over Angola. Even so hopefully wrong !

[phydeaux]

Fortunately it appears that it was only a near miss. I was bombing around in the big blue when I over heard the TAAG crew muttering on the RT. It appears as if a company in Namibia (name associated with a direction) aircraft missed theres by less then 1000'. Luckly that is all.

[Gunship]

"Better" News but still sad to know how easilly things could have turned for the worse ... and we all know THAT area ! :eek:

[Avi8tor]

I saw that there was a post about midair in Angola. I can confirm that there was midair yesterday (26th Dec) over Namibia.

It was between a TAAG B737 outbound from FYWH and an Air Namibia F407 out of Eros. The F407 lost most of the rudder and about a meter of the wing. The pilot landed safely back at Eros. As far as I know there were NO injuries. This can only be described as a miracle. The TAAG B737 continued on to Luanda.

Overheard on ATC chatter was TAAG saying that the Air Namibia was at the incorrect level. However that cannot be confirmed.

Being a regular operator in & out of Windhoek, it’s scary to think that there are aircraft flying about without the mode 'C' on and/or that airlines don't have/use the TCAS.

[BAKELA]

Avi8tor,

Absolutely spot on with your post. Had confirmation from Windhoek about the collision and there definately were no injuries. Very, very lucky.

Scary state of affairs. :eek:

[international hog driver]

It would always be better if the TAAG & SAL crews spent more time being pros and less time discussing yesterdays lunch choice or the activities of the expats at Rialto, Miami or Palos on 124.1 and 118.9
AS THEY TEND TO BLOCK THE FREQUENCY

Rant for the day over and out. :mad:

[Gunship]

IHD,

Yeah we have a similar problem ... but worse to come is the 32 odd Russian / Ukranian crews in Mi-8 / 17's /24's and 26'ses that fly low level in one of the smallest countries in Africa without knowing more than a single word of English :mad:

It's been close on plenty occasions ... needless to say I fly a mile or five parrallel from the GPS track between the bigger towns. ;) Oh and then do not forget about the rain storms / tropical thunderstorms to make your day between "pravda / nastarovia / da / Heili Selassie and so on :p

Have a ding - dong day !

[Gunship]

Close damn close ...

About two years ago a Mi-8 chopped a Let 410's tail nearly off in the Lungi circuit.

Uhmm look at my other post : Russian crew in heli / Polish in the Let and "learner" Sierra Leonean in the tower .. all landed safely :D THAT WAS CLOSE - if I have seen CLOSE :D

The Mi-8 was flying again the next day. He landed on the beach next to the runway. A Mi-26 cargo slinged him out and the crews fitted new blades during the night. The West Coast Let is STILL standing next to our Mi-17 (standing 4 years now) in the corner on the ramp at Lungi.

[international hog driver]

Gunners.... here's what you need to know.

Prevet, Ka-de-la, Horro-show, Shut the hell up Fox Fox Sierra.

I just have to see the gouge on the TAAG 737..... but its probably still flying................:D

[Gunship]

I grew up between Angola and Moz refugees in the early 70's ... sorry if I offend anyone but seriously the only Portuguese I remember was something like .. " a filla da poerta - a shistie di porri " ... something to that effect !

I also quickly learned that you must run very quickly afterwards :D

Will edit :eek: immediately :eek: if it offends anyone .. :confused:

[Herc Jerk]

PS.. So far word in my camp has it was out of Windhoek, the lighty ploughed in but the 73 continued on to Namibe with gash in wing... cannot confirm.
TCAS extensions?

[Gunship]

Lo Herc Jerk,

Do I understand you right the lighty ploughed in .. did the B200 crash ? :confused: ?

[126,7]

The other aircraft was a C404 not a F407??!!
As far as I know its Westair's aircraft flying for Air Namibia.

[Paddle Steamer]

Reading this story must make one realise that the best form of protection is MK one eyeball. Also ,and I use it extensively enroute , is the one mile left or right off track as set into your GPS.

But what beats me is that the TAAG 737 continued on his journey after acknowledging the fact that he was involved in a collision with another aircraft. How was he able to ascertain the extent of the damage to his aircraft?

Perhaps he was worried about being investigated and the aircraft grounded pending said investigation.

Tcas, only fitted in most aircraft but who says they are actually used???

[pie rat]

Hi, has anybody got more info in the midair that actually knows the aviation scene in Namibia ? Air Namibia flies F406's (Caravan 2), Westair flies C404's and F406's although not usually for Air Nam so who was it ? Also most A/c in Nam are Transponder equipped - definetely for Westair and Air Nam as both companies fly into SA airspace daily but to my knowledge neither have TCAS and whether TAAG has TCAS I do not know. Where was ATC in all of this ??:confused:

[Scudhunter]

Aircraft was a C404 but according to an ATI report it WASN'T operating for Air Namibia but instead on a charter to pick up a TV crew.

[Scudhunter]

C404 was clobbered over Windhoek by TAAG 737. Both a/c OK, though I suspect the C404 pilot will need new trousers.

[mattman]

It was A 404 Titan. The info we got here if sketchy but reliable.
The 404 was on route to a strip called Tsumkwye in the east of Namibia about 50 miles from the Bots Border. The 737 was on route from WHK Int to Angola (one of two stops before Luanda).
The 404 was at 115 and had just passed abeam the WHV.
The pilots reactions were brilliant to amazing. Occurding to him he caought a glimse of the 737 out the corner of his eye pulled the aircraft up.The right wing of the 737 went first through the right horizontal stabilizer damaging the evlevator then through the vertical stabalizer taking about a third of it with about a half of the rudder.It missed the second hinge by about one to two cetimeters by the looks of it.
The 737 said that it had just missed a small aircraft the 404 said it had just hit a @#$%ing big aircraft.The pilot of the 404 managed to put the aircraft down at Eros airport without inccident. My appriciation goes out to him to the skill and his handling of the aircraft. The 737 said it was proceeding on with it's flight.:eek: They say if the pilot had not pulled up the wing would have gone straight through the fuselage with terriable results.
I wonder if they are ever going to close the Barn door seeing that horse has been gone for ages.:(

[Gunship]

What an incredable tale of good fortune - no matter what Religion :D Sjeeesssss ...

[Skaz]

eehh...not to mention spelling, must be all the excitement, apparently the Bestair boys, oh sorry I meant the Luftwaffe , ja! buttered up the newspaper reporters and came off sounding like Top Gun Aviators, nice SA.:eek:

[ZRH]

I saw photos of the C404........and am glad that I wasn't on board.

[Paddle Steamer]

So the TAAG pilot was told that he had hit the 404 and still continued. Anyone in Luanda who can give us an idea as to what the 737 looked like?

A few years ago in the hold at LU at FL60 a TAAG 737 was cleared to the beacon at FL50 and reported overhead the LU ahead of us.We were looking !!!! and then heard the 737 as it descended to FL50 from behind and then above us. When we complained with a few choice words of the kings english, the controllers response was absolute silence. The 737 said nothing. If you do not acknowledge the mistake then how can it be one EH!

Very chuffed that he missed.

:D

[Gunship]

Sunday Times (http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2003/01/05/news/news03.asp)

Angolan Boeing continued on its flight after hitting Cessna over Windhoek
A major midair disaster was narrowly avoided when an Angolan Boeing 737 passenger jet and a twin-engine aircraft collided at 11 500ft near Windhoek the day after Christmas.

Aviation experts say it is a miracle that the two aircraft did not crash, killing all passengers and crew.

The wing of a TAAG Boeing 737-200, with nearly 50 passengers and crew on board, sliced through the tail section of the 10-seater Cessna 404 after taking off and climbing out from Windhoek International Airport bound for the Angolan capital, Luanda.

The Cessna had earlier taken off from Windhoek's Eros municipal airport and was heading for Tsumkwe in the northwest of Namibia to collect a film crew.

The pilot of the Westair Aviation Cessna, who was alone in the aircraft, managed to land safely at Eros although 40% of the tail fin and rudder had been lost, with the right-hand elevator and tailplane suffering extensive damage.

The wing of the Boeing, which seats up to 128 passengers, was also damaged but it is not known to what extent.

Aviation authorities in South Africa have for years been warning about the parlous state of air traffic control and equipment in sub-Saharan Africa and the potential for a midair collision.

In September 1997 two military transport aircraft, one American and the other German, collided at 35 000ft off the coast of Namibia, killing 33 passengers and crew.

Several foreign airlines fly to Windhoek, including SAA, SA Express, BA/Comair and SA Airlink.

But what has shocked and stunned the aviation industry is that the captain of the Angolan B737 continued on his journey, landing at Lubango in Angola - about an hour's flying time away - without returning to Windhoek to inspect the damage done to his aircraft.

"This verges on the criminal," said an SAA pilot who flies 737s. "The captain had no idea of the extent of the damage to his aircraft."

The president of the Airline Pilots' Association of South Africa, Captain Deryck Leathers, said this week that the actions of the TAAG crew were tantamount to fleeing the scene of a crime.

"The crew were irresponsible in not immediately returning to Windhoek to check the status of their damaged aircraft to ensure the safety of their passengers," Leathers said, adding that the association's warnings of a looming disaster in Africa more than five years ago had largely fallen on deaf ears.

"What we need to do now is get on with the inquiry into the collision and take the necessary action to remedy the causes."

The pilot of the Cessna, Rolf Traupe, described his experience this week: "I saw a flash of orange [the Boeing's nose section] out of the corner of my eye.

"I did not feel any impact and thought the jet had just missed me. But then I heard the Angolan pilots complaining about damage to their wing. I knew then they had hit me."

Traupe said he felt the turbulence of the Boeing buffet his aircraft, which began to vibrate.

"I reduced speed to maintain control of the aircraft, and because I could not see the extent of the damage, I thought it was minor as the aircraft was flying quite normally."

However on returning to Eros, Traupe was stunned when controllers informed him that "there's nothing left of your tail".

Westair chief executive Wolfgang Grellmann said it was a miracle that no one was killed. "This was as close as anyone can get to a tragedy without costing lives," Grellmann said.

"It is an extremely cheap lesson for our aviation authorities. For years there have been calls to authorities to upgrade infrastructure but nothing happens. This could so easily have been a 737 and a 747."

Grellmann said faulty radio equipment in the tower at Windhoek, which is not equipped with radar, might have been part of the problem.

"I know that Rolf called them several times asking them to change frequency as he was only hearing every third word or so, but the tower did not comply, for whatever reason."

He added that the TAAG crew might have had similar problems.

"The Boeing was climbing through 11 500ft and both pilots must have been looking down at their instruments not to have seen the Cessna. I can only assume therefore that they did not know it was in the vicinity."

Grellmann added that Westair had heard nothing from TAAG.

"I received a call this week from Luanda from a man claiming to be a military pilot wanting to know the fate of the Cessna. He would not leave a name or number. I think he might have been a crew member on the 737."

An inquiry has been launched by the Accident Investigation Branch of Namibia's Ministry of Transport. Tapes of conversations between air traffic controllers and the pilots concerned have been impounded.

[Paddle Steamer]

Want to bet that the investigation will run into "technical" difficulties and will actually result in nothing being changed.

Perhaps a few procedural changes but nothing like new equipment or a real inquiry.

Keep looking out, heads up and talk to each other.

Have a good day now :)

[4granted]

Pics here:www.sundaytimes.co.za/2003/01/05/news/news03.asp



sorry guns just seen you put it up already......

[Gunship]

No problem 4 Granted - I think it is important that as much as possible pilot's read it and thank their stars :D

[Flyboy737]

Latest on Namibian Mid-air.

TAAG B737 -200 out of Windhoek for Luanda hit a C404 (Westair) out of Eross (municipal) northbound. The C404 pilot was alone in the a/c and said that he saw the B737 flash past. He was not aware at the time that it had actually hit him. The crew of the B737 then complained to ATC about the damage to the B737's wingtip. The C404 then decided to return to Eross. The ATC then advised him that he had lost most of his vertical stab and most of the right side of his elevator. He manager to land back Safely. Photographs were all over the South African newspapers. The Captain of the B737 still elected to continue to Luanda and to date no photographs shown of his damage. Dept of Transport Namibia is now beginning an investigation! - into what???

[Konkordski]

What's astonishing is that the 737 pilot first went to Lubango, THEN apparently flew to Luanda. In an aircraft damaged by a mid-air collision!!